Russia could destroy NATO ships in 20 mins: Admiral

I see this claimed, but it is BS. Electronic shielding was an easy solution to this problem. If the USSR had known what they were doing, they would have known this, but having worked with Russian electronic Engineers, this was something they just weren't aware of. The integrated circuit, the microprocessor, put the U.S decades ahead of the Soviets, and the rest of the world for that matter. Having worked in Aerospace for several years, I know a little about the subject. Computer controlled electronics greatly enhance instrumentation and controls to a degree that few can appreciate

Even if the pulse is not powerful enough to produce thermal damage, the power supply in the equipment will readily supply enough energy to complete the destructive process. Wounded devices may still function, but their reliability will be seriously impaired. Shielding electronics by equipment chassis provides only limited protection, as any cables running in and out of the equipment will behave very much like antennae, in effect guiding the high voltage transients into the equipment.

I see this claimed, but it is BS. Electronic shielding was an easy solution to this problem.

Even if the pulse is not powerful enough to produce thermal damage, the power supply in the equipment will readily supply enough energy to complete the destructive process. Wounded devices may still function, but their reliability will be seriously impaired. Shielding electronics by equipment chassis provides only limited protection, as any cables running in and out of the equipment will behave very much like antennae, in effect guiding the high voltage transients into the equipment.
www.ausairpower.net...

Defence against EM Bombs

In any future war our defence forces are going to face some kind of EM weapons and it would be necessary to pay attention towards the defence against this emerging threat of the future. No air defence system could provide total safety from air attacks and therefore those systems that could suffer probable damage by such a new menace must be electro magnetically hardened.

Faraday Caging could be one method of this hardening process. Cage the entire system in an electrically conductive atmosphere to avoid being exposed to electromagnetic radiation. This can prevent the electromagnetic field from gaining access to the protected equipment. But that would be next to impossible and certain amount of damage cannot be ruled out because the equipment would have to breathe and maintain contact with the outside world. This will give it away and its protective shield. To ensure better security the lines entering the equipment could be fed through an arrester. 18

Limitation of Hardening

There is no doubt that system hardening is an absolute must to avoid damage to any part of the electromagnetic equipment. But hardening has its limitations. Conceptually the E weapon menace is at its infancy, as such no one really knows whether equipment can be hardened totally or some part will remain vulnerable to electromagnetic attack. And if one part gets affected, what would happen to the equipment as a whole? Considering this futuristic threat, the newer generation equipments could be hardened to an extent at certain cost. But it would be next to impossible to harden the older equipment. The damage is sustained mainly by the wounding semi-conductors and as such the equipment does not get destroyed completely and may keep on working intermittently, which would be more disturbing than a complete breakdown.
www.ciaonet.org...

Electromagnetic field strength achievable at a certain distance from the application would be the prime consideration. Vacuum tube equipment based on Thermionic technology is extremely resilient to the electromagnetic weapons effect than solid-state technology. Therefore a weapon designed to destroy solid state computers and receivers, may cause little damage to a thermionic device. Early 1960 Soviet equipment falls in this category.
www.ciaonet.org...

Having worked in Aerospace for several years, I know a little about the subject.

Originally posted by maloy
Those who understand how nuclear weapons and mutual destruction "works" know that ABM won't change much. The biggest deterrent to any use of nuclear weapons - is the other side's nuclear weapons.

First Soviet anti-ballistic missile system. Development began in 1956 and the system was tested at Sary Shagan 1960 to 1961. It was clear that enormous development work was needed to achieve an operational anti-ballistic missile system. Therefore work began on the successor A-35 system, although the Americans were led to believe that an operational system was deployed around Moscow. The System A anti-ballistic missile equipped with the V-1000 rocket made the first intercept and destruction in the world using a conventional warhead of an intermediate range ballistic missile warhead coming in at 3 km/s on 4 May 1961. The US did not demonstrate an equivalent capability until 1984 .

On 4 March 1961 the V-1000 achieved a world first - the destruction of the re-entry vehicle of an R-12 IRBM. This was followed by the destruction of an R-5 re-entry vehicle. In all, there were 11 launches with military warheads, plus launches of developmental warheads. The S2TA variant used an infrared-homing self-guiding high-explosive warhead and was designed by Storozhenko at the GOI State Optical Institute in Lengingrad. It was capable not only of determining the moment for warhead detonation, but also was capable of guiding the anti-ballistic missile independently using an on-board computer. The R2TA version used a radio-guided explosive warhead, with two types of proximity fuses used to determine the correct moment for warhead detonation. These were the G2TA, a radio ranging system, developed by Bondarenko and an optical system, developed by Emdin at GOI. Flight tests of the V-1000 with a nuclear warhead designed at Chelyabinsk-70 were also carried out.

As the anti-ballistic missile system reached maturity, a range of anti-ballistic missile countermeasures deployed by the incoming missiles challenged it. These included Verba (inflated decoy warheads); Kaktus (an anti-radar system that generated false targets on the anti-ballistic missile system radars); and Krot (an active jammer). Operation K (including live nuclear-armed target and interceptor missile exercises K1 through K5) tested the effects of nuclear explosions at altitudes of 80 to 300 km on the ability of the anti-ballistic missile system to function. System A demonstrated its ability to continue operation despite the nuclear detonations, although the tests were primarily conducted to obtain scientific data for the design of the next generation of anti-ballistic missiles. At the end of 1961 KB-1 and SKB-30 were transferred to OKB-301 and dedicated to full-time anti-ballistic missile work. In 1966 the developers of System A received the Lenin Prize for their work.

www.astronautix.com...

Bell's proposal would have to deal with bombers flying at 500 mph (800 km/h) or more at altitudes of up to 60,000 ft (20,000 m). At these speeds, even a supersonic rocket is no longer fast enough to be simply aimed at the target. The missile must "lead" the target to ensure it hits it before it runs out of fuel. This means that the missile and target cannot be tracked in a single radar, increasing the complexity of the system. One part was well developed. By this point, the US had considerable experience with lead-calculating analog computers, starting with the British Kerrison Predictor and a series of increasingly capable U.S. designs.

For Nike, three radars were used. The acquisition radar searched for a target to be handed over to the Target Tracking Radar (TTR) for tracking. The Missile Tracking Radar (MTR) tracked the missile by way of a transponder, as the missile's radar signature alone was not sufficient. The MTR also commanded the missile by way of Pulse-position modulation, the pulses were received, decoded and then amplified back for the MTR to track. Once the tracking radars were locked the system was able to work automatically following launch, barring any unexpected occurrences. The computer compared the two radars directions, along with information on the speeds and distances, to calculate the intercept point and steer the missile. The entirety of this system was provided by the Bell System's electronics firm, Western Electric.

Some small-scale work to use Nike Zeus as an anti-satellite weapon (ASAT) was carried out from 1962 until the project was cancelled in favor of Thor based systems in 1966. In the end, neither development would enter service. However, the Nike Zeus system did demonstrate a hit-to-kill capability against ballistic missiles in the early 1960s. See National Missile Defense and anti-ballistic missile systems.

en.wikipedia.org...

All ABM does is add instability to the equation.

A truly capable ABM system is extremely expensive - no less expensive than the money it takes the other side to build more ICBMs to overcome it.

So the ABM system will not lead to any safety or security - it will only lead to further ICBM production and development.

Originally posted by mazzroth
I'm all for not ignoring the Russian military might but there is one thing to consider here, they have done business scaring the rest of the World over the 50+ years of the Cold War with empty painted pipes passed off as Nuclear Missiles paraded in front of the World on Lenin's Day.

They are the masters of Bluff and I would not totally discount the possibility that they have nothing in the order of what they claim. You only have to read Pravda ( Russian Propaganda Rag ) to realize they are in the business of deceiving the "West" by which ever means possible.

Deception is their biggest weapon and sadly there are Major powers that know this but feel they can justify massive Arms Spending ( not needed ) to offset Soviet Claimed weaponry.

The Defense Contractors are in on this scam as they benefit financially and the poor dumbed down public suffers with a fair percentage of Public money going into Military spending and not Hospitals for the Elderly.

Obviously you know nothing about electronic shielding, or thermal conduction. Shielded wiring has been around a long time, and it is quite easy to test the effectiveness of shielding.

Shielded wiring has been around a long time, and it is quite easy to test the effectiveness of shielding.

Even if the pulse is not powerful enough to produce thermal damage, the power supply in the equipment will readily supply enough energy to complete the destructive process. Wounded devices may still function, but their reliability will be seriously impaired. Shielding electronics by equipment chassis provides only limited protection, as any cables running in and out of the equipment will behave very much like antennae, in effect guiding the high voltage transients into the equipment.

By the way, a great many of the top scientists and developers never had a degree. Never underestimate field experience. Sorry, but you don't need any information about my background

, but then again, they claimed the MIG 25 was a mach 3 aircraft.

Kill ratios in Vietnam over Soviet aircraft dropped down to a 1 to 1 ratio for awhile, but simply adding a cannon allowed the F4 kill ratios to climb back up above 10 to one.

You might also want to look into when the SR-72 was built, and its obvious superiority.

Here is a decent reference.

he mission:Become the most skilled, highly-trained, and deadliestfighter pilots in the world.The place: TOP GUN In the darkest days of the Vietnam War, the U.S. Navy's kill ratio had fallen to 2:1 -- a deadly decline in pilot combat effectiveness. To improve the odds, a corps of hardened fighter pilots founded the Fighter Weapons School, a.k.a. TOP GUN. Utilizing actual enemy fighter planes in brutally realistic dogfights, the Top Gun instructors dueled their students and each other to achieve a lethal new level of fighting expertise.

and once the F-14, F-15, and F-16 were developed, the Soviets had nothing to compete.

The biggeset undeniable point is the Soviets inability to keep up with the U.S. in computer technology. This is the 500 pound gorilla you are trying to ignore.

Mr. Babaian is justifiably proud of his engineering team's work for the Russian government. "Beginning in the mid-'50s, our team designed the most powerful Soviet computers, many of which are still in use in our space program and defense applications," he says. What the Elbrus supercomputers lacked in chip density, he explains, was compensated for by superior logic design.
www.thocp.net...

In the 1970s, as chief architect he produced the first superscalar computer, the Elbrus-1. Using these computers in 1978, ten years before commercial applications appeared in the West, the Soviet Union developed its missile systems and its nuclear and space programs.
en.wikipedia.org...

he Elbrus-1 and Elbrus-2 supercomputers the firm developed were a mainstay of the Soviet military and parts of the public sector. But Elbrus-3, reputed to have been twice as fast as the Western competition, never made it to market because of the collapse of the Soviet state. In that machine, Babaian claims to have pioneered a number of techniques that are only now beginning to be exploited by Western firms, including the use of VLIW very long instruction word techniques that are a feature of Merced. Babaian is now proposing to utilize those techniques, among others, to make an "Intel-ki ller" microprocessor he calls the E2k that can emulate both the Intel x86 and its next generation IA-64 instruction set in silicon, while outperforming anything that Intel can offer. Using a 0.18 micron process and a clock speed of 1.2GHz, the chip will run at 135 SPECint95 and 350 SPECfp95, says Babaian, and use only 126 mm square of silicon and 35 watts of power. The Microprocessor Report estimates that, using the same process, Merced would clock at 800MHz and deliver 45 SPECint95 and 70 SPECfp95, on 300mm square of silicon and 60 watts of power. Merced, however, is thought to be a year ahead of the E2k in the development cycle. The key, says Babaian is binary compilation, a technique most visibly used to date by Digital Equipment Corp in its FZ32 emulation product, which runs Intel x86 programs on the Alpha. But the Elbrus binary compiler will be built into the silicon rather than offered as a software add-on. Binary compilation is also the technique that secretive Silicon Valley start-up Transmeta Inc is said to be working on, and intriguingly, Transmeta CEO Dave Ditzel worked with Elbrus for several years while he was at Sun Microsystems. The E2k is currently only implemented in an executable Verilog database, and to build a prototype, Babaian needs substantial investment - as much as $60m. Until now the project has been funded by Elbrus's maintenance and systems integration division, and by work Babaian and his team have been carrying out for Western companies such as Sun Microsystems Inc and Avant! Inc. The search for capital is being managed by San Francisco-based Plantagenet Capital Management, which says that two European semiconductor giants, Germany's Siemens AG and the Franco-Italian STMicroelectronics, are both showing an interest.
findarticles.com...

The domestic computer hardware and software market is dominated by imports from US companies. US firms control the entire Russian import share of the software market while US computing hardware, especially quality and more powerful machines, are more and more in demand. In general, domestic production of software in Russia is limited to the development and production of various accounting/financial software and specialized software development under special orders of local enterprises and government agencies. The hardware industry is primitive and quality of hardware is generally regarded to be inferior to that of Western machines.

There are NO confirmed or unconfirmed reports of any MiG-29 kills in any theater of conflict, while at least 6 have been shot down by other fighters.*

Sorry if you don't understand electronic shielding, but I am not going to bother explaining it to you, either you get it or you don't.

It is quite easy to completely surround electronic components with shielding, and to keep them cool because heat flows through metal.

Your claims about electronic shielding are so lacking in understanding it is a joke.

High-power microwave (HPM) sources have been under investigation for several years as potential weapons for a variety of combat, sabotage, and terrorist applications. Due to classification restrictions, details of this work are relatively unknown outside the military community and its contractors. A key point to recognize is the insidious nature of HPM. Due to the gigahertz-band frequencies (4 to 20 GHz) involved, HPM has the capability to penetrate not only radio front-ends, but also the most minute shielding penetrations throughout the equipment. At sufficiently high levels, as discussed, the potential exists for significant damage to devices and circuits. For these reasons, HPM should be of interest to the broad spectrum of EMC practitioners.

Electromagnetic Pulse (EMP) and High Powered Microwave (HMP) Weapons offer a significant capability against electronic equipment susceptible to damage by transient power surges. This weapon generates a very short, intense energy pulse producing a transient surge of thousands of volts that kills semiconductor devices. The conventional EMP and HMP weapons can disable non-shielded electronic devices including practically any modern electronic device within the effective range of the weapon.

The effectiveness of an EMP device is determined by the power generated and the characteristic of the pulse. The shorter pulse wave forms, such as microwaves, are far more effective against electronic equipment and more difficult to harden against. Current efforts focus on converting the energy from an explosive munitions to supply the electromagnetic pulse. This method produces significant levels of directionally focused electromagnetic energy.
www.tonyrogers.com...

Other fighters being U.S. fighters. The MIG-31 is just an upgraded 29. All bragging aside, not yet proven.

Development of the MiG-25's replacement began with the Ye-155MP (Russian: Е-155МП) prototype which first flew on 16 September 1975. Although it bore a superficial resemblance to a stretched MiG-25 (with a longer fuselage for the radar operator cockpit), it was in many respects a totally new design. Soviet manufacturing limitations forced the MiG-25 to use nickel steel for 80% of its structure. The Ye-155MP doubled the use of titanium to 16% and tripled the aluminum content to 33% to reduce structural mass. More importantly, supersonic speed was now possible at low-level altitudes. Fuel capacity was also increased, and new, more efficient low-bypass-ratio turbofan engines were fitted.

The most important development was the introduction of an advanced radar capable of both look-up and look-down engagement (locating targets above and below the aircraft), as well as multiple target tracking. This finally gave the Soviets an interceptor capable of engaging the most likely Western intruders at long range. It also reflected a policy shift from reliance on ground-controlled interception (GCI) to greater autonomy for flight crews.
en.wikipedia.org...

High altitude fighter interceptor aircraft MIG-31 made it's first flight in 16-th of September 1975. It was intended to counteract against strategic reconnaissance aircrafts SR-71 "Blackbird's", strategic bombers B-1B and long-range cruise missiles. The MiG-31 "Foxhound" was first time exhibited in 1991 at Paris Air show. After Lockheed SR-71 retirement MIG-31 became fastest serial production aircraft.
www.enemyforces.com...

Nowadays there are no MIG-31 analogs. In 1992 appeared new version of fighter interceptor MIG-31M. New aircraft has significant changes first of all in board radio location set and increased armament. Now it carries 8 missiles in stead of 6 carried by MIG-31.
www.enemyforces.com...

By the way, I meant the SR71. Still superior to anything Russia has ever built. Who knows what its replacement's capabilities are, they have yet to be exposed.

In 1993 it was decided to retire the SR-71 - the reasons given for the premature retirement was the ability of satellites to carry out the mission and the increasing cost of maintaining the SR-71 fleet. Apart from the cost of maintaining the SR-71 fleet, another factor may have been that may have been taken into consideration was the knowledge that the aircraft had become vunerable. This had been demonstrated on 3 Jun 86 over the Barents Sea, when 6 MiG-31 Foxhounds performed a SR71 co-ordinated intercept against an SR-71 that would have subjected the aircraft to an all-angle AAM attack that even the high speed/altitude and ECM capability of the aircraft would have had great difficulty in defeating.
www.spyflight.co.uk...

If Russia has these advanced computers, then they have they yet to make them commercially viable? Why aren't their Russain made computers taking over the market. Certainly these days Russia has the capital to join in these markets.

The Russian MiG-31 is a long-range supersonic interceptor. It used to be dedicated to the air defense of the Soviet Union. Although based on the MiG-25 the many changes neccessary to improve range and flight performance at low altitude resulted in an all new aircraft.
www.milavia.net...

Any non-military electronics within range of the E-bomb that have not been protected have a high probability of being damaged or destroyed. The best way to defend against E-bomb attack is to destroy the platform or delivery vehicle in which the E-bomb resides. Another method of protection is to keep all essential electronics within an electrically conductive enclosure, called a Faraday cage. This prevents the damaging electromagnetic field from interacting with vital equipment.

The problem with Faraday cages is that most vital equipment needs to be in contact with the outside world. This contact point can allow the electromagnetic field to enter the cage, which ultimately renders the enclosure useless. There are ways to protect against these Faraday cage flaws, but the fact remains that this is a dangerous weakpoint. In most circumstances E-bombs are categorized as 'non-lethal weapons' because of the minimal collateral damage they create. The E-bomb's 'non-lethal' categorization gives military commanders more options to choose from

The narrowband HPM weapons, that Cuba is developing with China and North Korea, and of course, the United States at New Mexico, are nonlethal, reusable, and tunable. They can be fired from miles away. Like a laser, the focused beam disperses only slightly over great distances. They can even penetrate electronics shielded against a nuclear detonation. The deepest bunkers with the thickest concrete walls are not safe from such a beam if they have even been a single unprotected wire reaching the surface. One big push in microwave weapons has been toward portability.
www.lanuevacuba.com...

Originally posted by manson_322


The problem with Faraday cages is that most vital equipment needs to be in contact with the outside world. This contact point can allow the electromagnetic field to enter the cage, which ultimately renders the enclosure useless.
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most vital equipment needs to be in contact with the outside world, are equipments like communication antennas,Radar arrays etc,and other sensors of the electromagnetic spectrum..

more:

The narrowband HPM weapons, that Cuba is developing with China and North Korea, and of course, the United States at New Mexico, are nonlethal, reusable, and tunable. They can be fired from miles away. Like a laser, the focused beam disperses only slightly over great distances. They can even penetrate electronics shielded against a nuclear detonation. The deepest bunkers with the thickest concrete walls are not safe from such a beam if they have even been a single unprotected wire reaching the surface. One big push in microwave weapons has been toward portability.
www.lanuevacuba.com...

narrowband EMP HPM wepaons , can pentrate shielded electronics too....

enough said .....

and get your facts straight

[edit on 8-9-2008 by manson_322]

Originally posted by maloy[/i
StellarX you appear to be fairly knowledged regarding the ABM business.