A question to sceptics.

Alright, second ever thread, bear with me please if it sucks.

First I would like to define the word sceptic as I see it. The sceptical position is one of neutrality and being able to consider evidence on both sides. That term is used very loosely here and across the internet in general. I am almost always reminded of the Monty Python argument skit: "Well, this isn't an argument." "Yes, it is." "No, an argument is an intellectual process used to establish a proposition. A contradiction is just the automatic gainsaying of whatever the other person says." "No it isn't." haha!

Anyhow, the question is this. Would you, as a responsible sceptic (one who evaluates evidence and has taken time to study case reports for yourself), be worried if you were on trial for murder and had the same volume of circumstantial evidence implicating YOU for murder as the UFO community has for the existence of UFO activity?

It seems to me that a lot of honest people would and that SHOULD give people reason to look at the evidence a little more clearly.

Now clearly not all "evidence" would be admissable in court, but people are convicted of murder all the time without a SINGLE SHRED of positive proof of crime. For me, project silverbug seals the deal. For me, we are dealing with an extraterrestrial presence that is actively engaging our government, but that's just me

A lot of evidence would need to be removed however. Like Alex Collier's testimony. Don't get me wrong, I love the man, but I believe his story has a very shaky hole. That being, "species X loves us because they believe we are genetic royalty." While at the same time admitting that "species Y is trying to hold us down on our evolutionary path." That just doesn't jive with me. To me, species X would inevitably be forced to intervene and wipe species Y off the planet. Unless they are unable too... hmm.. anyhow, I'm rambling. Thoughts?

Edit above to add: "to look at evidence a little more CLOSELY".. (sorry, still haven't figured out how to edit a post without posting another)

There are UFOs - to observer of course. UFO community probably has a lot of info on that with real facts among other things but for some people here it can be very IFO. There is nothing that can prove those UFOs are built by extraterrestrials.
Oh, by the way - can you enlighten me why aliens in abduction reports are humanoid? Why no one was abducted by cephalopod? Or an insectoid? Or some weird gooey kind of life form?

You should see "edit" button in the upper right corner of your posts.

[edit on 25-8-2008 by ZeroKnowledge]

The evidence for UFOs is substantial but lackluster for humanoid extraterrestrials inside them.

I don't know about the court though. Guess I'd cut a deal with the judge.

Sceptics are believers who got dissapointed, hence they're now sceptics.
Do you think I was sceptic from the day one? Noooo...I was like wow! Alex Collier! Wow! John Leer! Wow! Alien lurking on the window! Wow! All these testimonies sponsored by Mr. Greer! Wow!

The wow one day turned into:

Alex Collier? Bulls**it! John Leer and breathable atmosphere on the Moon and soulcatcher? Bulls**t! Aliens in space craft about to reveal themselves on august 14th? Bulls**t! Obama's bodyguard being an alien? MegaTurboOverkill Bulls**t!

As for "evidence"? Well, if I decide to chop my neighbour with an axe, they will find his DNA on my clothes, perhaps some peaces of flesh as well..that's evidence that I whacked him..if not, that at least I had something seriously to do with it.

That's EVIDENCE.

Heresay, no matter how well spoken and convincing is still a heresay.
This is why I'm sick of taking people's words for granted..I may even give benefit of doubt to all those witnesses but another half of me is still crying for a real evidence and that half at the end, when the initial wow factor eases, prevails.

I hope this answers for ya!

Quote [There is nothing that can prove those UFOs are built by extraterrestrials. ]


And that is really it in a nutshell as to why I have a hard time believing they are aliens from another planet ......

Ok let me be clear .....I do not discount eye witnesses saying they saw something ..they heard something ....or may have even touched something ..in fact I believe they did see something and heard something and maybe even touched something ........what my questions are ....was what they saw made by man ...made by aliens ..made by some prankster or is it some magic trick ..

reply to post by Jay-in-AR


When editing, hit the edit button and when finished, hit the post edit button.

Circumstancial evidence has been used to convict many people in a court of law. If it was a court of science, they would want DNA and other physical evidences to prove the person guilty.

There are a few cases out there that have a lot of compelling evidence to back up the claims. Unfortunately, the majority of cases have more questions than answers, and when one digs deeper many problems with the case. What skeptics can do is ask the questions that need to be asked. Also, Occam's razor comes to mind about the simplest answer being the one chosen, no matter what the case. If I see a possible reason for a picture or video, I will post what I think it could be. It may be right or wrong, but the idea is thrown out there for discussion on why it could be right or wrong.

Originally posted by Jay-in-AR
Anyhow, the question is this. Would you, as a responsible sceptic (one who evaluates evidence and has taken time to study case reports for yourself), be worried if you were on trial for murder and had the same volume of circumstantial evidence implicating YOU for murder as the UFO community has for the existence of UFO activity?

I think most skeptics as you defined them accept that there are such things as UFOs that fly around that are pretty inexplicable. You're absolutely right that there is a lot of circumstantial evidence and hearsay when it comes to UFOs.

But answer me this, if you can... exactly what is it circumstantial evidence of? Aliens? I've never seen anything that indicates that. Time travelers? No good proof of that either. Thought forms from the subconscious or other realities? Pretty hard to prove, since we don't have that good an understanding of reality, as it is.

So given the circumstantial evidence, if I was being tried for murder, I'd be worried. But what exactly is the charge with UFOs? Because if the charge is "aliens," I'm pretty sure I would be a free man in no time.

[edit on 25-8-2008 by Nohup]

Wait I just thought of something else to add...


Isnt it possible that since there are pictures of supposed alien craft from back in the days of hyroglyphs ..(which ancient texts of the Egyptians have lots of stuff in them scientific and stuff we dont even know about) ......isnt it possible that just like back then (they had the public snowed that they were mangods and that aliens would come and get them if they didnt obey ) ...then they could be trying to do that again ....making those ships from designs from the Egyptian ancient texts ....for the same purposes ...(Obedience from the public using fear of the unknown ) ................

1) fear of the unknown never works. Humans are not frightened little sheep. They will often attempt to kill or conquer the unknown, seeing as greed is a major vice of humanity.

To quote what I said elsewhere

Why is this you say? Why wouldn't Juba the caveman kneel down to the superior life form? Simple. LOOK AT US! Since when have we simply bowed down to superior life forms? Even the Bible shows that the masses resisted God to the bitter end. Man does not serve. We look on jealously and plot our conquest of the superior. We observe the superior eagerly awaiting their weaknesses to show. We clench onto our spheres and pikes awaiting the phasors to be lowered by accident. Because like it or not, a thousand spheres are superior to 30ish phasors.

2) The ancient Egyptian texts aren't ufos I believe they are fish or something.

3) Also, because leaderships hate it when another power is stronger, they would not record it, but destroy its existence.

[edit on 25-8-2008 by Gorman91]

reply to post by ZeroKnowledge


Whitley Streiber reported seeing beings with mushroom shaped heads.

That isn't humanoid and I would venture there have been many others.
If you are going on the idea that anything that stands upright is "humanoid" the black bears I saw last month are humanoid also.

Not only that, but it has been said that due to the efficiency of the humanoid shape, it would be common to find humanoid intelligence all over the place.

I didn't try to tell you that there is proof. In fact, I made an effort to acknowledge said proof is absent. Doesn't take away from the circumstantial evidence.

UFO as in Unidentified Flying Object?

Then I would be scared, the amount of ''unidentified'' dots and lights in video's is unbelievable.

UFO as in "Alien High-tech ship from outer space that shares nothing with the original meaning?"

Nope, not at all.

reply to post by Kenan


Geez, I don't mean to sound like a douche or anything, but you have a warped view of the word evidence. I don't want to turn this into a dictionary lesson so please, I emplore you, stick with the premise of the thread!

Also, I feel like I should clarify that while this IS my second thread ever on ATS, I am no newbie to the UFO phenomenon OR debate.

reply to post by kidflash2008


Thanks kidflash! I'll try to figure that out next time I need to edit.
Thanks for the responses guys.

(ahem)....SKEPTIC

Can someone please define for me what a "Sceptic" is?

If we are to deny ignorance, surely there's a better way.

reply to post by Nohup


Actually it is merely circumstantial evidence of the UFO phenomenon. Maybe I was unclear with my original post, the conclusion 'I' personally have come up with, right or wrong, is that we are engaging a race of beings from outside this planet.

reply to post by NightVision


HAHA! That is a good photo and thanks for the clarification. I misspelled that word at least twice!... I guess I'm not used to this yet.

[1) fear of the unknown never works. Humans are not frightened little sheep. They will often attempt to kill or conquer the unknown, seeing as greed is a major vice of humanity.]


LOL ok I have to disagree with this ...it sure worked with the sniper shootings ..they had everyone ducking and running in and out of stores in and out of their cars ..even people who didnt even live in Virginia were ducking and running and jumping at any noise they heard (like a blown tire or something loud) ...It also worked with the 911 terrorists are everywhere (media was saying it over and over again to get it firmly planted in our minds to be very afraid of everyone and anyone) ..among us ..your neighbor ..your friends ..your store clerks could all be terrorists ...there are many many sheeple that I know ..who are so scared they all went and bought guns and ammo and would turn in every Arab who even sneezes because they may be a terrorist .....

Also how many Republicans were fooled by the mantra of ..If you dont vote in Bush (2004)we will have another attack and it will be your fault for not voteing for the one who can keep you safe ..yadda yadda >.? many many that I know of ...

Also ...hasnt it worked for many many years in Religions and Governments since the beginning of time ?
Not all are fearful of the unknown ..but certainly MOST ARE >......

reply to post by Nohup


Forgot to post about your charge. No, it is murder.
And in this scenario I do believe that the abduction/contactee testimony would translate to; "yeah, I saw nohup shoot that dude in the face."

reply to post by Jay-in-AR
So, heres the thing. I am a skeptic. Do I believe in UFO's yes. Unidentified Flying Object, does not an alien make. I am a skeptic because I have never,ever,ever,ever seen proof that the occupants of UFO's are alien beings. Have you? Has anyone? I dont think so. I will remain an open minded skeptic until E.T. lands in my front yard. Until then I will just keep my eyes open.