US offensive in Afghanistan 'kills 76 civilians'

Originally posted by mystiq
Actually, its called genocide, and its deliberate. What I'm amazed are people lacking the IQ to immediately apply it to their neighhborhoods and see if they would appreciate their own families slain by murderous geopolitical cartel for the freedom of the coorporations, or for anyones philosophies. Just try it, do a full techno color with our family and neighborhood. If you're speaking the same way, you failed to do the exercise properly.

you may want to refresh your memory of what defines genocide.

if criminals among you attacked defensive forces from your backyards and playgrounds, placing your families at risk of slaughter from the inevitable response, would you be so sympathetic for the thugs who put everything you know and love in harms way?

its what jihadists do, and so many ignorants buy right into it, and can be counted on continually do so.

apparently.

Originally posted by Truther


Nearly 70 women and children? well done america. I dont know what else to say, I was under the impression that U.S troops were there to save the people of afghanistan. whatever.

www.telegraph.co.uk< br /> (visit the link for the full news article)

considering how america treated/treats it's indigenous people, should we expect anything better? The people who authorized wounded knee and financed christopher columbus have their descendants placed in high positions of authority today.

He who controls the past, controls the future.

killing women and children doesn't make anybody free. Its simply a psychotic cop out for genocide and the power struggle that has been going on for far too long.

reply to post by pluckynoonez


This thread is just a hotbed of misunderstanding, huh? I apologize for jumping on you, as I confused your sarcasm with seriousness. Truther has done the same thing with my comments. No wonder I'm not a sarcastic person. I'm not very good at it.

Edit: Dear, Plucky. I posted it without replying to the right person.

[edit on 22-8-2008 by DeadFlagBlues]

Originally posted by iiinvision

Originally posted by Truther


Nearly 70 women and children? well done america. I dont know what else to say, I was under the impression that U.S troops were there to save the people of afghanistan. whatever.

www.telegraph.co.uk< br /> (visit the link for the full news article)

considering how america treated/treats it's indigenous people, should we expect anything better? The people who authorized wounded knee and financed christopher columbus have their descendants placed in high positions of authority today.

He who controls the past, controls the future.

killing women and children doesn't make anybody free. Its simply a psychotic cop out for genocide and the power struggle that has been going on for far too long.

While I don't advocate war, or the killing of innocent civilians, the fact is, that is war. Do you wish that the US and its allies never became involved in WWII? Do you wish Nazi Germany should have been allowed to rule the world?

The reason I ask is because the ONLY reason the Allies won WWII is because they bombed and killed indiscriminately during that war. They were not concerned about civilian casualties. They did not care if they killed women and children. They just killed, and they won. They saved the world by doing so.

Does that make it right? Well, yes, it does. If they had been politically correct (as we are now), they would have lost. We would all be Nazis.

Think about it. We are humans. We kill, whether you like it or not. YOU can't change that, and YOU never will. That is fact.

BTW, democracy does not exist. It died with ancient Greece. For example, the US is not a democracy. It is a constitutional republic. That is entirely different from a democracy, and more in-line with ancient Rome.

BTW, nice Rage Against The Machine quote. I love that band.

Peace Through Prosperity.

Originally posted by iiinvision

considering how america treated/treats it's indigenous people, should we expect anything better? The people who authorized wounded knee and financed christopher columbus have their descendants placed in high positions of authority today.

He who controls the past, controls the future.

killing women and children doesn't make anybody free. Its simply a psychotic cop out for genocide and the power struggle that has been going on for far too long.

i have native american heritage, i'm glad i'm not living in a grass hut, i'm also treated just fine

again, let us all review the word genocide and its commonly accepted definition, shall we?

gen·o·cide (jĕn'ə-sīd')
n.
The systematic and planned extermination of an entire national, racial, political, or ethnic group.

now, tell us how americans are perpetrating genocide?

present your numbers, at the very least.

Originally posted by feydrautha

Originally posted by iiinvision

considering how america treated/treats it's indigenous people, should we expect anything better? The people who authorized wounded knee and financed christopher columbus have their descendants placed in high positions of authority today.

He who controls the past, controls the future.

killing women and children doesn't make anybody free. Its simply a psychotic cop out for genocide and the power struggle that has been going on for far too long.

i have native american heritage, i'm glad i'm not living in a grass hut, i'm also treated just fine

again, let us all review the word genocide and its commonly accepted definition, shall we?

gen·o·cide (jĕn'ə-sīd')
n.
The systematic and planned extermination of an entire national, racial, political, or ethnic group.

now, tell us how americans are perpetrating genocide?

present your numbers, at the very least.

Bravo! I agree completely.

Let's put this in perspective. It wasn't "Americans" that fought the indigenous people of the U.S. (and Canada, BTW. I bet you forgot about that. For that matter, South America, too). The people that took the AMERICAS were EUROPEANS. Specifically, the Brits, the French and the Spaniards.

Let's go even further. The indigenous people's of the Americas didn't just magically appear here. They migrated from what is now known as Asia (who migrated from Africa). So, just because they were the first people to settle the Americas, does that make the land theirs?

If your answer is yes then you had better start vacating Europe pronto, if of course you don't want to be a hypocrite.

My point is this: Think before you speak.

Let's go even further. The indigenous people's of the Americas didn't just magically appear here. They migrated from what is now known as Asia (who migrated from Africa). So, just because they were the first people to settle the Americas, does that make the land theirs?

If your answer is yes then you had better start vacating Europe pronto, if of course you don't want to be a hypocrite.

My point is this: Think before you speak.

That doesn't mean it is right to kill 25 million Native Americans in the process? Murder is never justified if you're talking about the slaughter of innocent men, women, and children. This also is applicable anywhere else be it Afghanistan, Iraq, Palestine, Israel, Somalia, and anywhere else people are being caught in the crossfire. You find it to be acceptable because "that's the way it works."

Evolve.


[edit on 23-8-2008 by DeadFlagBlues]

Originally posted by DeadFlagBlues

Let's go even further. The indigenous people's of the Americas didn't just magically appear here. They migrated from what is now known as Asia (who migrated from Africa). So, just because they were the first people to settle the Americas, does that make the land theirs?

If your answer is yes then you had better start vacating Europe pronto, if of course you don't want to be a hypocrite.

My point is this: Think before you speak.

That doesn't mean it is right to kill 25 million Native Americans in the process? Murder is never justified if you're talking about the slaughter of innocent men, women, and children. This also is applicable anywhere else be it Afghanistan, Iraq, Palestine, Israel, Somalia, and anywhere else people are being caught in the crossfire. You find it to be acceptable because "that's the way it works."

Evolve.


[edit on 23-8-2008 by DeadFlagBlues]

Evolve? You have to be kidding me. Have you "evolved?" Keep telling yourself that. I bet you're a vegetarian or a vegan. Why do I say that? Because that is EVERY vegetarian or vegan's cookie-cutter argument for EVERYTHING - EVOLVE. That is simply a joke. Tell me how you've evolved over peoples from Africa thousands of years ago. Because you want and strive for peace? You insult our ancestors if that is your thought process. You don't think our ancestors wanted peace even then? Quite frankly, I think people like you have DEVOLVED, simply because your thought process isn't linear.

BTW, Did the EUROPEANS kill 25 million AMERICANS? I'd like to know where you get your statistics from. Please tell us. Oh, wait. You can't.

I think this is utterly ridiculous. I know sometimes being from America it's tough to accept the reality of what the US really is from a global perspective. This is just ridiculous. As a country, we're to the point that we feel we need to install democracy everywhere, and, if we don't we're somehow failing the world? Come on Bush, pull your head out of your bum for at least the remaining days of your (still defies me that he was elected) presidency. The American people need to wake up and realize that we are slaughtering innocent people going everywhere. If you really look at the last century, we have been at war for roughly 80% of that time, sticking our nose in everyone's business, which is exactly where it doesn't need to be.

Originally posted by DingleberrySmurf

Originally posted by DeadFlagBlues

Let's go even further. The indigenous people's of the Americas didn't just magically appear here. They migrated from what is now known as Asia (who migrated from Africa). So, just because they were the first people to settle the Americas, does that make the land theirs?

If your answer is yes then you had better start vacating Europe pronto, if of course you don't want to be a hypocrite.

My point is this: Think before you speak.

That doesn't mean it is right to kill 25 million Native Americans in the process? Murder is never justified if you're talking about the slaughter of innocent men, women, and children. This also is applicable anywhere else be it Afghanistan, Iraq, Palestine, Israel, Somalia, and anywhere else people are being caught in the crossfire. You find it to be acceptable because "that's the way it works."

Evolve.


[edit on 23-8-2008 by DeadFlagBlues]

Evolve? You have to be kidding me. Have you "evolved?" Keep telling yourself that. I bet you're a vegetarian or a vegan. Why do I say that? Because that is EVERY vegetarian or vegan's cookie-cutter argument for EVERYTHING - EVOLVE. That is simply a joke. Tell me how you've evolved over peoples from Africa thousands of years ago. Because you want and strive for peace? You insult our ancestors if that is your thought process. You don't think our ancestors wanted peace even then? Quite frankly, I think people like you have DEVOLVED, simply because your thought process isn't linear.

BTW, Did the EUROPEANS kill 25 million AMERICANS? I'd like to know where you get your statistics from. Please tell us. Oh, wait. You can't.

you went to public school...

I can tell.

There are many people of native descent. I ask those of you that are to tell me about the ceremonies your ancestors took part in?
All of that is gone, save for a few of us who still keep it alive.

If you really feel like knowing the numbers you can look for yourself and find out.

also, the original stewards of ''turtle island'' did not believe in ''owning'' land but living in harmony and taking care of the land. They had honor, respect, and discipline throughout their culture.

we have a dichotomy here, and honestly I don't think that should dissuade you from doing the proper research instead of recollecting school wisdom bestowed upon you by the same institutions that systematically striped a large majority of natives of their traditions and languages.

Thinking linearly is great! but it isn't the only way of thinking, and it isn't necessarily the best.

Im not seeking sympathy from anyone or reparations or anything. Im simply stating that the slaughter of 76 women and children in afghanistan is just as atrocious as the slaughter of an entire culture. The systematic, slow, and scathing slaughter of millions that happened here on us soil that you don't even understand save for cowboys and indians and spaghetti westerns.

Just because some of my ancestors lived in tipis and longhouses and were a much simpler culture than the europeons, doesn't necessarily mean that they were less intelligent.

If instead the tables had been turned and the europeon forces succumbed to the will of the natives, or rather fully grasped their ideas, I know that we would not be living in this dimension.


I disagree with the bearing straight theory. I find too many coincidences between the ancient egyptians and my ancestors to subscribe to that. maybe thats ignorance, but my intuition, WHICH IS NOT linear, doesn't resonate with it. Perhaps a combination of both is closer to reality than one or the other.

just because you learned it in school doesn't mean its fact. Just because someone went to school doesn't mean their opinion should be regarded as fact.

to quote mark twain
"In religion and politics, people's beliefs and convictions are in almost every case gotten at second-hand, and without examination, from authorities who have not themselves examined the questions at issue, but have taken them at second-hand from other non-examiners, whose opinions about them were not worth a brass farthing."

same thing applies here

Originally posted by feydrautha

Originally posted by iiinvision

considering how america treated/treats it's indigenous people, should we expect anything better? The people who authorized wounded knee and financed christopher columbus have their descendants placed in high positions of authority today.

He who controls the past, controls the future.

killing women and children doesn't make anybody free. Its simply a psychotic cop out for genocide and the power struggle that has been going on for far too long.

i have native american heritage, i'm glad i'm not living in a grass hut, i'm also treated just fine

again, let us all review the word genocide and its commonly accepted definition, shall we?

gen·o·cide (jĕn'ə-sīd')
n.
The systematic and planned extermination of an entire national, racial, political, or ethnic group.

now, tell us how americans are perpetrating genocide?

present your numbers, at the very least.

what do you know about your heritage? what do you know about your people? their beliefs, their traditions, and their way of life? ever been to a reservation here in america. when I was talking about treatment, I wasn't speaking of the treatment of the assimilated, shaved, natives. Im talking about the ways of old. These ways were ways of honor.
When a chief went to battle, you could guarantee that he, along with his son, would be fighting alongside all the other warriors. Women and children would be respected, and for the most part ''counting coup'' was more respectable than killing an enemy...

ever hear of David Stannard. He got his ph.d. at Yale university. He wrote this book called American Holocaust. You can read a synopsis here


have a pleasant evening

iiinvision,

Actually, I went to private school. A Military Academy. OOH. That makes me even worse now, doesn't it? Of course it does, you can tell... NOT.

Look up the stats myself? Hah! I already have and you and your crony are both liars. There, I said it. Straight up. Prove me wrong. You can't. NEXT.

You know, this truly IS ridiculous. The U.S. is no longer Asian land. Get over it. If you can't, wage war.

Do you see now? As long as there is conflict, no matter what, there WILL NEVER BE PEACE.

Thank you all for proving my point.

Have a good one.

This article is rubbish, the numbers are all over the place. In the article itself it states that the Afghan government is giving conflicting reports of the casualties, and the U.S is disputing the claim as well. This is just anti-American propaganda, it is standard practice for Taliban to use villages and their inhabitants as meat shields. They kill indiscriminately with suicide bombings and kill Afghanis who stand up to them; they are terrorists in the most literal sense. Our soldiers have a war to fight, and it just so happens the enemy doesn't mind using civies as cover, but the fact of the matter is we can't just let them do hit and runs on us. We need to engage, sometimes innocents will die, but that is the fault of the Taliban for hiding amongst the villagers. The number sounds off anyways, seems like a rather disproportionate mix of men to women to children.

reply to post by DingleberrySmurf


I am vegan, and you sought that petty bit of information for your ridiculously lame argument out by looking at my profile, I'm sure. We're not talking hunting strategies or anything pre-historic of nature, so we'll not bring Africa into it. And by evolve, I meant mentally. You're justifying the deaths of numerous peoples throughout history with "Because they were their first, does that mean it's theirs?" being the key component in your other petty squabble.

Because you want and strive for peace? You insult our ancestors if that is your thought process.

Death is bad regardless of what side it is on. We as a species have been fighting since our inception, and even the strongest nation in modern times is still "accidentally" killing untold numbers of innocent numbers. And even better, "for peace."

Common people should not be terrorized in their own home, street, city, country. What does 76 innocent people murdered tell you, genius? That we are doing everything we can to prevent civilian deaths? Does it tell you that we are trying to "liberate" a people from the clutches of whatever boogeyman they're after at the moment? No. The only thing this wreaks of is irresponsibility and incompetency of the soldiers blasting rounds through innocent bodies , carelessness on behalf of the leadership that let this "offensive" take place, and the idiocy of people defending such actions for whatever reason.

Regardless of it being a cruise missile, a mortar shell, bullets, or a blanket of small pox. I will not for a second stop defending the innocent the right to live. Even on these message boards, I will never stop making adamant, apathetic, and dense people like yourself get away with justifying the death of anybody . You can try deceive yourself so it doesn't hurt so much. It's not a good feeling when you understand and acknowledge the humanity of your fellow human beings. But, you choose to explain it away with "It's because we're bringing them democracy, right?" "That must have been an accident, my country wouldn't do that." "Hey, it's war, people die. In this one.. Mostly innocent, but how does it affect me?" Though, every single person being obliterated with shrapnel is just like you and I. Every single child torn into pieces by "accidental" small arms fire is just like my little brother, our sons, and our daughters. Every woman clutching those kids are just like our mothers, wives, sisters.

You can treat war and death like it's some sort of sporting event, but I will not. Being human is much more than that to me. I'm willing to participate in aiding my fellow man, not standing by making excuses for a slaughter because it was my "team" who did it. If that's what your idea of geopolitics or specifically "democracy" is all about, than you can count me out and continue on with skewed commentary, childish attacks, and aggressive ranting. So far I haven't been able to take any of it seriously, anyway.

reply to post by DingleberrySmurf


I wouldn't say worse, but I would say you are inclined to obey your superiors and their points of view and opinions without necessarily looking it up for yourself.

I like how you obfuscate what I actually communicated. Whether intentional or a product of your own subconscious imprints, is irrelevant.

Conflict is more or less created by those who aren't content and are in a power struggle as I stated in my first post on this thread. As long as people are shut off from the power source of harmony and love(not romantic love but the recognition and respect for life, the golden rule et c) they will always find ways to milk other people's energy through different ways.

I see your side of the coin. And I see the other side of the coin.
There is no conflict here, friend for we are all passin out..win or lose

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Originally posted by feydrautha

Originally posted by mystiq
Actually, its called genocide, and its deliberate. What I'm amazed are people lacking the IQ to immediately apply it to their neighhborhoods and see if they would appreciate their own families slain by murderous geopolitical cartel for the freedom of the coorporations, or for anyones philosophies. Just try it, do a full techno color with our family and neighborhood. If you're speaking the same way, you failed to do the exercise properly.

you may want to refresh your memory of what defines genocide.

if criminals among you attacked defensive forces from your backyards and playgrounds, placing your families at risk of slaughter from the inevitable response, would you be so sympathetic for the thugs who put everything you know and love in harms way?

its what jihadists do, and so many ignorants buy right into it, and can be counted on continually do so.

apparently.

Did the children and civilians of Aghanistan do any of this? Or, if it wasn't an internal job by the cartel (which I knew the day I watched it on tv that corporate American had just killed its own people, to enter the middle east, because thats how they operate. I knew that watching the live coverage.) Or was it a set of terrorists created by the CIA, even if it was a group of criminals (which were linked to Saudi Arabia, by the way), how did that suddenly turn every Afghanistan into a terrorist or criminal? It didn't. They remained "civilians", not fodder.

reply to post by iiinvision


i know quite a bit, the ojibwa was a very large nation, most know them as the chippewa

and like all who populated the americas, they were all descendants of the asian land bridge migration, so they were not tchnically native, either, just here before eropeans (as far as anyone knows, there has been a case where european human remains were discovered here that pre-date the asian migration)

and to paint all pre-european "natives" as peaceful, loving hippy/utopians is a complete fantasy

oh, a phd at yale, you say? well, let us all bow down to the "expert"

you first

Originally posted by mystiq

Did the children and civilians of Aghanistan do any of this? Or, if it wasn't an internal job by the cartel (which I knew the day I watched it on tv that corporate American had just killed its own people, to enter the middle east, because thats how they operate. I knew that watching the live coverage.) Or was it a set of terrorists created by the CIA, even if it was a group of criminals (which were linked to Saudi Arabia, by the way), how did that suddenly turn every Afghanistan into a terrorist or criminal? It didn't. They remained "civilians", not fodder.

yes, the cia created terrorists, it had nothing to do with the demands allah has made of his followers... sheesh, do you actually read what you type?

the cia has nothing better to do than to fabricate jihadists, so they can kill civilians, their favorite sport...

absurd

those afghan civilians you speak of, they wouldnt be the ones shooting rpgs at soldiers, would they? they're not the ones detonating themselves among women and children, are they?

when they strike from behind civilian populations, they purposely use those civilians as human sacrifice for their cause, its the jihadists, not the western soldiers who are responsible for their deaths

but of course, thats not popular, is it? better to blame america... thats the mantra, isnt it?

reply to post by Truther


It's hard not to kill citizens when the terrorists that are harbored there use them as human shields.