Michael Moore Dares to Ask: What's So Heroic About Being Shot Down While Bombing Innocent Civilians

Originally posted by ghofer
I was once considering joining the air force but the thought of having to obey stupid orders did not appeal.

No worries. We did not miss you.

Moore is just looking for some press. Must be because "Sicko" isn't in theaters anymore.

Maybe if he took a look at the actual after action report he might want to amend his statement, but I kinda doubt it.

Even if Mcain wins the general election, I think its very likely that during the swearing in ceremony it is likely that he will drop dead from sheer excitement. The man is 74 yrs. old for petes sake, and not in the best of health. I actually considered the scenario of the death of Mcain in office as part of the "BIG PLAN" . But I tend to overanalyze. Seriously though its not as if the choices are all that great to begin with. This is the first year since I was 18 that I am considering not voting.

Haha, keep it lefties. Everything you do to focus attention on McCain's military service record and time as a POW will SURELY help Obama in the polls!

Originally posted by jerico65

Originally posted by ghofer
I was once considering joining the air force but the thought of having to obey stupid orders did not appeal.

No worries. We did not miss you.

And I didn't miss you either. I'll promote peace any day over war and the unnecessary killing like those in the air force seem to take delight in. I'm convinced that if countries spent a tenth of the amount on humanitarian projects that they do on weapons, that the world would be mostly peaceful. Too many dinosaurs like you wanting power and fighting though.

Originally posted by budski


As a UK citizen

As a UK citizen how bout you don't be such a jerk about who we see as our heroes and who we want for president. As a UK citizen you just vote for your own innept leaders and you can go on admiring whichever war heroes you so desire.

I hate snobby Europeans that think they can meddle in our politics. Enjoy your unified EU, welcome to the age of lost culture and dwindling nationality. I hope you like curry and turbins.


[edit on 22-8-2008 by Sheeper]

Originally posted by Riposte
Haha, keep it lefties. Everything you do to focus attention on McCain's military service record and time as a POW will SURELY help Obama in the polls!

Forgive me for taking notice, but I'm still trying to sort out the heroics in being taken prisoner while being shot down in a war that you lost. Isn't that kind of a definition of 'loser'?

...just saying, you know?

reply to post by JohnnyCanuck


maybe the fact that he survived and went on to make something of himself. show some respect, it was not his war but he did what any good citezen would do and try his best. I'm sure you would show any POW from your country with the level of respect he deserves.

Originally posted by HowlrunnerIV
Tell me, had he been a prisoner on the Burma-Thai Railway, would you berate him for the use of the words "Jap" or "Nip"?

I don't think the OP was berating McCain but in my opinion yes absolutely I would be offended or disappointed if McCain used racial slurs and felt justified in this because of the race of those that have hurt him. I didn't even realize he had.

Why is it okay for him to offend an entire race because of something that happened to him that has nothing to do with the Vietnamese that actually did help him?

Being attacked by a group from a different race doesn't give you a license to racially insult the entire racial population. I am sure some of those that are included in his sweeping racial insult could be a potential McCain voter. The actions of his capturers have nothing to do with them. What is he saying then? "I have a right to used racial slurs against you because a group of your people tortured me. When I say I hate gooks though, I am not talking about the good ones."

The people that hurt him are responsible and his attack should begin and end with them.

- Lee

Originally posted by Sheeper
reply to post by JohnnyCanuck

 

maybe the fact that he survived and went on to make something of himself. show some respect, it was not his war but he did what any good citezen would do and try his best. I'm sure you would show any POW from your country with the level of respect he deserves.

Surely, but if you read the context of my comment, it was in response to Riposte's taunt: "Haha, keep it lefties. Everything you do to focus attention on McCain's military service record and time as a POW will SURELY help Obama in the polls!"

...and context is everything.

Originally posted by ghofer
And I didn't miss you either. I'll promote peace any day over war and the unnecessary killing like those in the air force seem to take delight in. I'm convinced that if countries spent a tenth of the amount on humanitarian projects that they do on weapons, that the world would be mostly peaceful. Too many dinosaurs like you wanting power and fighting though.

Unnecessary killing? Right. That's why we have Rules of Engagement, so we can just kill everyone out there without any sort of restriction. You might want to wind your neck in a bit; you're talking about things you don't know or understand.

Now, back to the regularly scheduled thread. McCain got schwacked hitting a power plant. He wasn't bombing innocent civilians, like Moore is burping about. Moore really needs to pull his head out of his fourth point of contact before he starts blabbering.

Originally posted by Night Watchman
What Michael Moore should be asking is, "why does anyone even care what I think?"

I'm not surprised that this fat blob doesn't consider anyone heroic who isn't serving him pork chops. I am an Obama supporter but am now considering voting for McCain in the hopes that a McCain victory will cause Moore to suffer a massive heart attack.

Ok, I'm not serious about that last part but you get my point.

Look, I happen to believe those who are willing to defend one's country are heroic. They didn't make the policy. They don't get to choose the actions they take. They are simply doing their jobs and because they do, the citizens of their country can feel safe (except the paranoids who hide under the bed because they see govt conspiracies at every turn.

As George Orwell wrote:

People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because brave men stand ready to do violence on their behalf

It's easy to sit behind a keyboard and express our opinions. Most of us can feel safe in doing so. We can thank those who serve to protect us for that.

There's a difference between bravery and heroism. I would consider soldiers to be brave. It takes some guts just to enlisting. But heroic? That would depend on their actions and the circumstances. Just because anybody does something brave doesn't mean they are heroic. Besides, their job offers them a lot of benefits and other opportunities despite the risks involved. The missions and the wars that they are sent to usually serve for dubious and less than lofty purposes. I don't doubt many of these people who sign up are aware of this, yet they still choose to enlist. That's their choice. A gutsy choice, but it doesn't automatically entitle them to heroism. How about a parent who does 3-shifts a day just so they could give their children the shot at life that they never had? Wouldn't you consider that heroic? That is real long-term sacrifice. We don't consider that heroic, because we don't see it glorified by the media and by the politicians. They may not be heroes to you, but they are to the well-being of the children whose sacrifice they serve.

These days, the media, popular culture, politicians and the people themselves have a lot to do with stretching the definitions of heroism, often to the point of banality. The problem with this is we often ignore those whose service, self-sacrifice, vision and extraordinary humanity really deserve the praise that should be given them. But instead we worship recycled pop-idol hogwash like McCain. It benefits politicians more, since they get to set up as icons and poster boys those whom they can manipulate the most. The soldiers, while definitely brave, are more like victims than heroes. The people are guilty too, of encouraging them to needless deaths. My only wish for consolation is that we at least should send them to wars that do serve a real noble purpose.

We deserve better heroes. We deserve real heroes. There are heroes in the uniformed ranks, but not all of them are heroes.

[edit on 22-8-2008 by JCMac]

[edit on 22-8-2008 by JCMac]

reply to post by budski


Liberals rarely understand anything about War.

Originally posted by Rockpuck
reply to post by budski

 

Liberals rarely understand anything about War.

They do understand that Liberal Democracies are far superior to military dictatorships, and I'm ok with that.

Originally posted by Rockpuck
reply to post by budski

 

Liberals rarely understand anything about War.

And there are thousands of soldiers out there serving and dying in wars who would consider themselves liberals.

See if you can still say "liberals know nothing about wars" with a straight face.


More appropriately, it's the anonymous guy whose "extensive knowledge of war" requires him to talk smack about liberals on the internet, who know nothing about war.

[edit on 22-8-2008 by JCMac]

[edit on 22-8-2008 by JCMac]

reply to post by JohnnyCanuck


It was a Liberal who started Vietnam to begin with.

Anyways, the question is retarded. He is asking is it ok to bomb heavily populated areas...

The answer to which is only since the 1990's have we purposefully tried to not kill civilians. This strategy has not worked well, obviously.

McCain did what he was ordered to do, was shot down, survived being a POW and came back and made an astounding career. It is the American definition of heroism .. only since he began running for President has that come under fire.

A reason to vote for him? Probably not, unless he is like Bush and Kerry and didn't do what he said and his so called POW time was at a resort on a distant beach. I doubt that will happen though..

Perhaps if there was a bit more commentary on what these candidates actually stand for, plan on doing, and how they are even different.. why .. people MIGHT not dread every 4th year so much. Honestly, our politics is enough to turn the most die hard democracy supporter into one who hates it.

reply to post by JCMac




Don't get your panties in a bunch lil fella.. tittle of the thread is enough to support my argument.

Originally posted by Rockpuck
reply to post by JCMac

 

Don't get your panties in a bunch lil fella.. tittle of the thread is enough to support my argument.

A thread title? That's it? That's the ultimate proof of your argument?

Maybe I should be the one laughing. I didn't know some people could be so pathetic.

So a thread title gives you the ultimate authority on war? Give me a break.



Don't get your panties in a bunch lil fella... people like you are enough to support my argument... my second argument that is


[edit on 22-8-2008 by JCMac]

reply to post by Andrew E. Wiggin


Wow! I can't believe I'm gonna say this, but Andrew that was a beautiful post and accurate depiction of Michael Moore. Ive always found myself on the opposing side of a debate with you. Thank you, for demonstrating your willingness to reach out over party lines and give credit where it is due.

Yours is the example all should emulate. I'm impressed!!

Originally posted by Blaine91555
reply to post by budski

 

Michael Moore the King of Spin and Lies

Using a person as disgusting as Moore to try and smear anyone else, whether true or false, requires one to learn how it feels to be a snake in the grass. Nothing personal against you budski, I just can't stomach that guy for some reason and some of his lies and spin are sooooo obvious it makes one wonder how he has even a single fan on this planet?

Attacking McCain on this topic is as low as it gets. How incredibly desperate some people must be to resort to this. McCain is a Man; Moore is a sissy little pile of vomit with a fat head who lies for a living. Moore could not get elected raw sewage manager and he is a valid source for anything?

My response has nothing to do with who he attacked but everything to do with what a slime bucket Moore is. Even when he is right he is so disgusting I'd believe the opposite just to spite him. When I see him being interviewed I have to avert my eyes just keep from vomiting and even then a little bile finds its way into my mouth. Ooooooooooooh! I just tried to imagine touching his putrid flesh and I had to run to the bathroom just in case.

Laying Moore aside

attacking McCain in this way on this issue will backfire immediately and the net result will be more votes for McCain not against. It has zero relevance to the election and does not speak to any real issue so it is just a spiteful attack. Its a new low for Moore and I smell the slimiest operatives the Democrats have in their ranks behind it. This is no Swift Boat and it won't work.

Did I mention that I don't care for Moore

Could not have said it ALL better myself! As if you were reading my mind!!! Thank you!!

Anything MM says is downright laughable and yes, extremely nauseating!

reply to post by Zepherian


Micheal Moore has myopic vision.The world would be a much better place,if people would just do as he says.Mr. Moore is just another save the whales,kill the babies liberal,whose only good point is that he looks much better behind a camera than in front of one.Evidently he has no idea that evil will hide within the innocent population.