Is pedophilia a sexuality?

I have to comment:

Our society and system are completely screwed up.

We group in people who urinate in public and 19 year olds who have sex with 17 year olds as sex offenders and they often if not always fall into the same legal category

This is the simplest matter on Earth

A person is BIOLOGICALLY sexually mature or not... 12-14, like it or not, (and I have kids) that's when Sex begins if it's consensual, people shouldn't do 10 years behind bars... and be lifetime sexual predators. For being attracted to a person of the opposite sex who is biologically sexually attractive and willing.

beyond that there are only 2 sexual taboos

1: Rape

2: Molestation of an Underage Child (Rape x 10)

In both cases, the question of is this a sexuality Has NO Place Being Asked

It is of zero consequence IF it is a sexuality or not...

Because IF it is a sexuality it is a sexuality that comes along with a complete disregard for human emotion or pain and suffering. Having a desire is perhaps understandable IF it is a sexuality, but being the kind of person who would impose that sexuality on a helpless defenseless child in agony and shame and fear and get off on it is a severe mental illness

And there is no way to get beyond that.

Could the sexual desire be cured? I have experimented with brain change alot and studied it alot... always have quested for IQ and behavior modification... If they wanted to, I would say YES it could be cured.

But a person who has acted on the impulse is not a person who wants to be cured, there is a combination with socipathy involved in that, there is no cure for it at that point anymore than there is a cure for a Lion that has tasted human blood

Death is the only answer

and can the Law stop Pedophilla?

NO

Jail isn't scary

Only one thing can prevent this... because MOST get away with it in a system of laws... (and this includes that 13-18) year old range where a Dad might not want his daughter even willingly to be with someone)

A return to a father having rights over his children until the age of 18 is the only answer.

We live in a society that shuns vigilante behavior and I agree with that in most regards

But this would go with drug abuse too... a Father, needs to have domain of protection of children and even in cases of divorce be allowed to intervene without legal imposition.

because one thing and one thing only will keep men away from your daughter and it's not the cops... it a bad ass Dad

I should have the right to Kill at will anyone who sexually assaults my daughter, particularly as a child... and basically you kind of do, you just have to go through the system in a major way, lose your job, spend some time in jail, and waste money....

and frankly, IF my daughter is ever molested, the man responsable dies, slowly, painfully in a way I'll get in big trouble for doing it if they catch me... and would be worth every minute of my pain to do it.

Because you hear every day about a guy who molested a kid...

and Never about a guy who cut the pecker off a guy who molested a kid and made him choke on it until he suffocated.

And I think more decent guys need to be on the news for that particular crime and That and Only that will stop pedophilla

Because prior to PC bs, no one was molested in my neighborhood... Because a big Italian guy would come to your house of that was the case and crush your balls in a meat grinder behind the local market

I mean I'm sure it happened, but almost unanimously those people were dealt with.

I think it stoped in the case of David Berkowitz the Son of Sam Killer because some guy who wasn't the Son of Sam got his rear end handed to him and a very big Public affair was made of the practice and police began to be encouraged to stop this sort of thing...

But the reality was... and it's obvious, given the state of things now and prior to that incident and the legal changes in this country as a whole... That 99% of the time street justice was far superior to criminal justice in controling Rape and Molestation and other heinous acts in a local population

Nothing keeps house robberies lower than a well armed public, (sure if someone robs you they look for your gun) But robberies as a whol were alot less frequent

and... things, maybe things aren't important in a world of insurance to say...hey shoot an intruder is an okay thing...

But kids are... it's an abomination that a guy who molests someones 3 year old daughter ever walks the streets again... aside from in a body bag out to a Herse

I remember distinctly the first "street" rape in my area, when I was a kid as all this cracking down on the Mafia (local law) and police crap came to be...

and again...

and again...

Until the late 80's early 90's it was a manhunt when it happened, it never went on long, no one tried it again, everyone knew the guy vanished... If a kid in a gang accidently shot a kid..he was found, he was killed... cops looked the other way

I know not every part of America was Brooklyn and people have had and seen things... but even in the midwest a Farmer shooting out the door at guys after his daughter was NOT frowned upon

This system is killing us

and frankly, there is No debate on IF this is a sexuality, I don't care. This "trend" lol, encounters my kids The person gets buried in the sand up to thier head and and I use screwdriver on thier frontal lobe and leave whats left for the birds and coyotes and bugs

Sorry but this system for handling things grew a population of 5 Billion people and now doing things the way we are it's a damn mess and almost at the brink of ruin

as for dads... who molest...Moms get dibs on gun use too...

sorry pc people, but, where my kids are concerned, physical intimidation all the way to a severe beating up to murder for an actual rape or molestation is how I would handle it...

Reprisal is the only way it will vever stop, only way it ever has been controled


and frankly, I'd prefer to cooperate with the police, because they can figure out a who done it...in the case of rape better than I ever could...

But the Death Penalty needs to apply









[edit on 17-9-2008 by mopusvindictus]

reply to post by mopusvindictus

Death is the only answer

Honestly? Really? The ONLY answer?

I can not stand the death penalty because there will always be errors. Our justice system is not perfect, in fact we have three prominent groups right now who have freed several wrongly accused and convicted men and women from prison.

I can understand if you disagree and think the errors should be tolerated in order to put to death those who have truly committed heinous crimes, and maybe if the crime is atrocious enough and the DNA evidence is solid I would budge on this, but do you seriously think any sexual offence, despite whatever the individual circumstances may be should result in the offender’s death?

rapin you do nothing except to debase, bias, and condescend here.

I am sure you are a true joy to live with.

reply to post by jpm1602


JPM, I agree with you on the basis of ACTUAL MOLESTATION.

But THE WHOLE POINT OF THE THREAD was to ask the question: What of the perverts who have not offended yet? Can we treat them? Can we make them come out of hiding and accept their disease and try to rid themselves of it? Are we strong enough to give them voice if they truly want to cure themselves?

Man, you usually hit every point perfectly in my head, but you're really not reading my responses if you don't think I am in agreement with you.

I think about it, and I am for instant death by firing squad to those who rape children. But there is a grey area now, with 13-17 year olds being sexually active.

As a mother my first instinct and desired action would be to kill whomever hurt my son with a slow and lingering death, but my life and freedom is not worth that. While vengence would be tempting I would do better to remain in my childs life to help him through the trauma.

So I say that anyone who hurts a child should simply be let loose in the general population of prison.

We can not punish those who have not acted on thoughts, no matter abhorent they may be.

reply to post by rapinbatsisaltherage


I'm not a major fan of the death penalty either.
For the same reasons in fact.

And if there is doubt, then obviously it should not be used.

But Childhood sexual offenses when caught are literally the hardest possible thing you will ever see a false verdict for.

I'm not talking about teens, I'm talking about children.

It would be the rarest flase accusation in the world for a child, let's say under 10 to come up with a bs story and the malice to create one and describe to a adults a fake molestation story, fake evidence of...penetration, and make the story believeable by an adult when the child never had sexual experience.

When caught, your talking about the most open and shut evidence possible... starting with a 7 year old that can sdescribe a sexual act and name a perpatrator and not be found to be a liar... and ending with physical evidence and ...the most likely scenerio where you will have DNA

This isn't an athlete accused of date rape

it's a child saying... he stuck his thing in me when i was alone on tuesday

we aren't talking about a 13 year old that might lie...

I'm talking abut a 5 year old who can never construct the story right if it wasn't true

I'm not talking about a grown female who may have an inkling of responsability or the psychological capacity to Heal from a bad experience

I'm talking about a little kid who will be ruined for life, who will be traumatized possibly into similiar behaviors causing a destructive chain of events that will haunt society years, decades...generations perhaps after the crime was commited and the criminal has passed on, generation after generation of abuse within families started by one act.

and if a person can... do that, with in tent to a child, there is no cure...

I mean, if they could, have the technology to literally fry thier brain enough to start new... perhaps let them live

But is that not in essence killing htem anyway? To wipe the parts of thier brain that make them who they are?

So on this and this one thing I see... no cure, nothing else.

Life incarceration is...worse than Death, it's torture, they will be raped, abused or live in isolation forever... mind unwinding, becomeing who knows and g-d knows what in there

and IF for any reasons those prisons ever open..a disaster, a war

They all get loose across America... under circumstances where people do not need those kinds of predators...

Rape is lied about

Murder can be faked or tricked

No 6 year old concots molestation stories that are flase and gets away with it.

Death penalty applies here

reply to post by SantaClaus


A person who hasn't done anything

should be given help...

Yes

but sadly the help needed, the abiity to actually rewire your neural connections is something your not going to get from traditional psychiatry at this point and time.

Brain change, is not a very well accepted aspect of western practices.

reply to post by mopusvindictus


Then really, permanent jail time or death is the only answer, which is why these people would never give themselves in. Thus the problem perpetuates itself.

reply to post by SantaClaus


No..

The first thing you have to realize is that Pedophilla while it has always been around, is as a social disease goes... a Plauge on western civilization right now

The numbers of pedophilles in America is astounding, regular downloaders run in the MILLIONS, this wasn't the case 40 years ago... not that there was an internet to know, but we can know Ethnographically, it was..not discussed, it was not a fear..our grandparents don't have stories to tell about it...

Turn 12-13 and start...budding, it was always a different story, but molestation of children pre pubescent, infants even, is something utterly (at least in wide spread desire) new

This is a Social disease, and we caused it, There is no One cause of it either... the big factors, Males raised without male role models, over sexualization in youth when sexual patterns are forming with kids being mentally sexualized at ages where they pick up desires way too young that stay with them forever, drugs that...particularly, all froms of speed, allow for sexual patterns to be laid down fast and easy via the limbic system, .... Over exposure, desensitization, fear of women and... many other factors

But you say that... "this is why they don't turn themselves in..." Bro, they don't need to, there are a few masters out there that practice and don't get caught, but by and large no one keeps this hidden for a lifetime...

Your talking about an uncontrolable obsession... no one gets away with it forever.

Social disease is real... it's obviously epidemic in America and probably western civilization as a whole, law enforcement isn't able to handle these numbers... even in a police state, this is in the Government it's everywhere you look

and the Law is doing a good job, and many of these guys go away... and it's going to get worse on them. But it's not going to stop until we return to a system of social values where ...social diseases are cured not treated syptomatically...

The biggest problem is...we are in a failure of religion, for centuries, the biggest social diseases were held at bay by faith... fear of g-d... as religion has failed to be valid or people dioscover falsehoods within religion no reason for morality has existed for a time...

But as social diseases like this one... become epidemic, we are realizing that... there are social and scientific reasons for guidlines to behavior and society hasn't caught up yet. But I assure you when it does... the only answer there will be is to cut out the cancer...

In a way I sympathize for these people, I say put them down because, lynching in prison is a horror, life in a cage is a horror... and these people were kids who...saw there moms work as whores maybe, had no dads... maybe just got thier first erection at 7 when they saw a 7 year old girl dressed like a street walker because our society thinks it's okay to sexualize little girls and fixated on it because they happened to have dope thier parents were smoking in the air that day...

and many of them.. all of them did nothing but... put on the TV maybe and be exposed to nudity and sex and vice all day or by parents, or... maybe simply lived without a dad and had a Mother that turned them off and made them fear women by yelling and screaming to contro the kids in a system where divorce is 80%....

I don't know...the reasons are Myriad... we expose kids to sex way to young and everybody thought Violence would be the media generated issue, but True horrible violence isn't rageing in our viens, we don't have a system in our brains for laying down permanent violent behavior (at least not an intense one like sex is)

But be molested...50/50 become a molestor or at the least fail in relationships your whole life and have latch key kids exposed to harms way

so did these guys ask for this? No

Do they deserve this? No

But when..and it will, it always does, society decides to correct the situation out of fear...

Pedophilles will be the first to go, burnt at the stake, by society and society in all likelyhood... created the tendency in the first place and it's not fair...

But, a rabid dog is a rabid dog no matter how much you love it or how Nice it really was...

It will still kill you...

So, when the time comes and America cleans itself... and again it will, when things get bad enough that there are no police or the money isn't there to fund this system of vigil, people will police themselves

and for all of human history...maybe people called it the devil or possesion... they knew social disease when they saw it... understood it passes from person to person and through generations

and until very recently, there was a way a pedophile was dealt with... Death, no one in all history would ever arrest a man for killing another man who F'd a child

Until now

and trust me... the trend of the last 30 years is already hitting that wall...

This sickness is a blip in the course of things... if it continues there will be no society so society will like an immune system working... will destroy the social disease

and it wont make sense and it IS uncompassionate and it is the fate of being a pedophille and a system that prevents a society from correcting itself will never last very long, it's already doomed and everyone in here knows it.

So they won't turn themselves in...so what? LOL, again they suffer from an uncontolable impulse...they don't need to turn themselves in they will be found out and...one way or another meet a terrible fate







[edit on 17-9-2008 by mopusvindictus]

reply to post by mopusvindictus


My God... That was.... Quite the editorial and commentary.

I must say, I will again pause for thought. Those points are hard not to consider.

Star mi amigo.

reply to post by mopusvindictus


As much a I depise organised religions, of any type, I think you have raised some valid and probing issues.

Food for thought indeed!

reply to post by SantaClaus


Ty

The only answer for a pedaphille is to know the truth... and that is life will be ruinous for you and for a alot of other people by acting on those impulses...

worse a sexual imprint is singularly the hardest thing to deprogram from yourself...

ask anyone who has a fetish if they could ever make it go away entirely... The answer will be 95% NO

When society allowed for the head of a household to deal with that sort of threat, people knew... they would Die if they acted on that impulse and sought to restrain it.

And that and knowing the results and them being in your face real is the only thing... FEAR

Lets face it... remember those kids in Singapore that did the Grafitti?

No one in Singapore acts out...

Why? Because fear realeases the same chemicals that allow the brain to rewire as....when you ride a bike... Prison does NOT scare criminals...

an intense psychological trauma is the only thing that will overwrite the programing in your synapses that causes a behavior

a beating is worth alot more to correct criminal behavior than..jail ever is

Knowing that a behavior when it is...this darn serious can get you killed inspires enough fear to... overcome a deep rooted impulse

Fear of Death is the only thing stronger than the sex urge because it's wired in there, deep, deep, to reproduce and when those wires get crossed, your basically screwed

and these guys... therapy wont work on those that have the urge, it's just therapy, it's not a basic depression or self esteem thing it's accidental hard wired traumas built up over time and exposure

They need to know... it's like being a heroin addict, it doesn't just go away... you need to become a Monk, you need to limit your exposure to all sex, live a life of chastity, it's a disease that wont go away, you can't have a normal life if you do you will fall back in and the REALITY and it is now and is going to get alot worse, your life is over if you act on it... even online people watch... you will get caught, the evidence will be overwhelming

and right now it is the safest it has ever been to be a pedophille, the system protects you, gives you rights, but it will never last, even in prison you can't be with the inmates because... even the worst criminals so loath this behavior they will kill you dead, let loose the population will inevitably kill every pedophile they find...

and if there is a colapse of govt (when it happens at this point because of utter inept social experimentation) and regular folks have access to that list they have assembled... OMG, the worst death since the holocost would follow in under a week

reply to post by Freeborn


I'm no different... I hated organized religion much of my life... But at the same time, I know the loss of it spells the END of this society.

Human stupidity, EGO, men went in and made it all Dogma...

Take for example Judaism... G-d never said "don't eat pork" But why are animals really banned in some societies?

PRION DISEASE

People knew 2,000 years ago...some animals did something that made people loopy and not to eat them...

When religon tried to explain this they said..."G-d" will puinish you, as we have advanced we know...it would be F'n retarded to believe that

so we abandoned...all of our customs... not stopping to think that there was a real reason... at some time and place....

Now, Millions of people get alzheimers... and it's pretty well known it's not just mad cow...there are tons of prion disease responsable and we don't treat and raise and cook the meat we do eat properly

So... most of us loose our grandparents or are burdened by them...

and it's one example of how... everything is colapsing

and your right to "hate" organized religion

There was probably a time when... it was acknowledged that many men became priests to "control" desires like pedophillia... be in a monestary, do good work...

Over time this was frogotten too and no on "gets" why the clergy is filled with pedophiles lol and we put them in charge of kids ... which is a joke, they became Monks for a reason!!!

Can you imagine how many guys must become priests to escape thier Demons? And lol, then we put them in charge fo schools...

Religion isn't a bad thing... Just Men with ego's in charge of it, who wont reconcile with science and make it viable...

If you ask me... Women should head the clergy, not Guys, the world might have some balance in it.

So many factors made religion seem..literally retarded, But... there were reasons and...

Particularly Sex, Not exposing children to Sex in developmental stages is HUGE, valid on a Million good psychological reasons, keeping a 2 parent system isn't about romantic Love it's about.... keeping society alive and well, keeping kids safe from harm, proper sexualization. ( not judgeing right and wrong, just what builds the human race and what does not)

Even sexual freedoms, gone to far... a woman over stimulated is very hard to please... the Right to have sex is fair... but overindulgence leads to... 1/3 of women not being able to orgasm...

Men too... there has never been a time when pedophillia was like this today, Porn addiction, inability to be satisfied...

Do You know the human mind can't actually tell the difference between sexual fantasy and a real experience......

So what do you become... when all you see is perfect women and perfect men all day? How can you ever be happy with one person? have a family?

It's not possible when your mind has had 1,000 3 somes with porn stars

people just...seek more constant stimulation until... Only the most bizarre fetishes and intense experinces get us off

So there were good, valid reasons for MORALITY

But organized religions decided to say "G-d" told us everything and the lie of that became apparent so in the 60's we threw it all away

I did too... much of my life

Last i checked G-d spoke to man... a handful of times... so whats a person to do when they realize... 99% of what they are being told is "g-ds law" is actually man made... but discard those rules...

But in the end..science keeps showing me... from Sexuality, to Diet, to the Family structure and raising children... the customs and rules we built over 1,000's of years to create a society of 6 Billion in the first place... were there for good reasons

and yeah hate religion, because these guys F'd it all up big time... by claiming thier word was the word of g-d





[edit on 17-9-2008 by mopusvindictus]

Originally posted by jpm1602
rapin you do nothing except to debase, bias, and condescend here.

I am sure you are a true joy to live with.

How so? I asked mopusvindictus a valid question, I wanted more clarity on his/her position and they answered very well by the way. You don’t know what it is like to live with me and don’t assume you know by a few messages I post. You have been rude, personally attacking me and bringing nothing in depth to this issue at all. You repeatedly misrepresent or don’t even understand my post and don’t seem to grasp the issue of this entire thread has mainly been the urge, not the actions.

reply to post by mopusvindictus

So there were good, valid reasons for MORALITY

I know it’s off topic but just have to say I completely agree with that entire post. Morality is not a bad thing as you said, men just screw it up by deciding we need a God like a parent to tell us what is and isn’t wrong, and to convince people of the obvious, like that sleeping with someone other than your wife probably isn’t the best thing to do, murdering someone is monstrous (duh), and all those other things religion teaches that pretty much comes down to the basic pre-school teaching of “treat others the way you want to be treated”. The sad thing is I think a lot of religious figures are “in the know” that they are full of it, but they like the power too much. As you pointed out which I think is completely accurate, it all seems to come down to men’s’ egos.

i only have one problem with many of the people here statements of what should be done to pedophiles.

I knew one of the people convected in one of these cases.
and it was a total frame-up by the county of Kern State of Calif.
pedophileophobia.com...
www.spectacle.org...


There have been many of these cases all over the US. and other countries
pedophileophobia.com...
www.religioustolerance.org...
www.skepticfiles.org...
www.freerepublic.com...
blog.absolute.com...
psychology.ucdavis.edu...
www.theblogfathers.com...
www.nytimes.com...
www.saisathyasai.com...

Lets just say, I deal with pedophiliacs almost every day, and leave it at that. (And to be honest, I dislike them very much, so I am biased from the get go.)

Is pedophilia a mental disorder? yes.

If you could actually talk to a bunch of inmate's, you would find that "cho-mo's" as they call them. Are despised and killed if they are allowed into the inmate general population. They are usually separated from the inmate general population and form their own little inmate sub culture.

This pedo sub-culture believes they are the "victims" of society, that they are "normal", and that non pedo's are out to get them. They also believe that the "child" was consenting with the sexual action, and that it is "love". Pedo's will admit that they never can be cured, and freely admit among themselves that they will do it again, if allowed.

Most pedo's are Narcisstic, delusional and\or psychotic and can not function in "normal" today's Modern society. They will continue to seek acceptance, and will force their opinion on others until they are "accepted" by society. (Exp Nambla) (Note: I am talking in general here, not specific, and there are exceptions to the generalized rule.)

Is pedophilia natural or learned behavior?

Much as I hate to say it, pedophillia is Natural, and can be found even in animals.

Now granted, I have no experience outside of domestic lifestock. So while I can't tell you the natural world of "pedo" bonobos monkey's, I can tell you the natural world of horses for exp. a few male horses will attempt to breed with very small male\female colt\philly, and can kill the young horse if successful. Nature has a pecking order, and that pecking order is the leading stallion of the herd. And he will kill\drive away the pedo horse. Now younger animals will attempt to breed with thier own age, And you can see 2 male younger colts attempt to breed with each other. And the Stallion usually ignores the behavior, as long it is young male on male behavior. (The phillies
are under the direct control of the lead stallion, and are usually not subject to the advances of younger colts.) If the lead stallion has pedo tendencies the herd will die out, or a more dominant male will drive out the pedo "stallion".

So while pedophilia is natural, it is not normal at least from my limited experience in the animal kingdom. And A Animal dominated with pedo traits would soon go instinct.

Historically pedo's have usually been marginalized, like the animal kingdom. And usually they were only dominant in a few professions. There has been exceptions to the rule for exp, the Greeks, Japanese, some Polynesian tribes, etc. And these were usually education reasons, older\younger student. But by and large, they were marginalized like they are today.

And the most ironic twist of history, the most common profession to have pedo's in it. is Education. Pederasty. (excluding religion, exp. Shudō)

Is it treatable? Yes, the pedo disease side symptoms can be greatly lowered, exp. harmonal therapy like depo-provera, mild pedo- large doses of a anti-depressents like Paxil, major pedo- large doses of anti-psychotic like risperdal.

But pedophillia can not be cured, only treated. (And the only true "cure" is eradication, Which does happen in the animal kingdom, But in modern society. This is not allowed. And chemical castration and\or cognitive altering drugs are preferred.)

Hopefully that answers some of santa claus's question.

reply to post by msnevil


Very informative msn.. I now have conceded to the fact that this is most certainly not a sexuality. I am also beginning to think that perhaps these people aren't very normal by ANY standard, let alone their sexual deviance. From what you said and what I have heard from others about their sociopathy, they don't seem like very good people in any walk of life.

Really, it comes down to the fact that this is a chemical or physiological imbalance. Extermination, the answer, albeit the impossible one. So really, the only ones who will ever BE treated with any success are the ones who feel they need to rid themselves of the disease, and they don't seem like the majority in the population. Scary stuff.

It's not a sexuality it's a mental illness