Russia Warns of response to U.S. shield

Originally posted by West Coast

Originally posted by mybigunit

Also Remember Georgia attacked first.

That, according to Russia, which I think has the distinct possibility of being mired by falsehoods and inaccuracy's.

You could or could not be right. The fact is sadly I dont trust our government or media anymore than I do the Russian government or media. Sad isnt it? The fact is the media and here government has lied to me so many times I no longer trust them. As far as Im concerned it really could be either.

reply to post by Black_Fox


You are correct sir. When I say US or America it means our government, our government controllers, and the sheeple that follow blindly. Sadly though I do disagree in the fact that there are more sheeple than you say. I think the majority of Americans still feel that there is a difference between the parties.

I think it is interesting that few seem to look at this from the point of view of the Poles. Do they not deserve the opportunity to defend themselves against the reestablishment of the brutal tyranny they endured under the Russians? The reality is that Europe is effectively under U.S. control so long as they cede the responsibililty of their defense to the U.S., and therefore there is no European threat to Poland. The Russians, on the other hand, constitute a very serious threat.

We are not talking about installing offensive capability here. This is about protecting Europe, including Poland, from the Russians, and that is a worthy goal.

reply to post by West Coast


You are right. The source I posted earlier shows how this was "started" before most of us were even born - in fact, before modern day Russia and Georgia were even formed. The people who are saying Georgia started this are just looking for an excuse to blame the United States, and cheer Russia on.

Putin's new Russia seems like a wonderful system to live under. I can see why so many ATS'ers would like to see Russia demolish America and its influence, and become the new "superpower." I know that I sure would like the right to die of radiation poisoning because I was about to speak out against my government.

Originally posted by West Coast

Originally posted by mybigunit

Also Remember Georgia attacked first.

That, according to Russia, which I think has the distinct possibility of being mired by falsehoods and inaccuracy's.

Holbrooke wrote it would happen with Russia as the covert cause.

www.youtube.com...

Ron Paul also said it would happen, years before Holbrooke said
it as well.

www.youtube.com...

Bush sending in peacekeepers invites disaster too.

The Georgians or Ossetian separatists will simply shoot the
other side while hiding behind the other and will get the
Russians and US forces shooting at each other.

It goes right in the toilet from there.

Originally posted by manson_322
Russia must smash the evil imperialist US empire , before it murders more russian people , like how it got done through its stooges in Georgia

May God Bless Orthodox Christian Russia to obliterate the Satanic USA and win WW3 , in case USA tries to attack Russia

What's the matter Charlie...towel rapped a little too tight?

Let russia make a move on us. We will respond with overwhelming and disproportional force!

Im american and with most of you members of this site look at the technology america keeps secret the only threat to american soil is alien technology not russian not chinese lets get real people just look around the inernet. all this bluffing is strickly economic manipulating propaganda. STOP with all this my brother can beat up ur brother the real issue is if we do have war with russia are u ready to be drafted.

One quick question, when exactly is this missle supposed to go into Poland, I know they have reached an agreement to have it there, but when is it actually going to be in place and up and running.

This is a great discussion, FLAGGED it!

I would like to post some facts and my opinions on this matter so maybe we can begin to grasp the real motives of this.

Georgia did strike first, even tho Georgia may have had its reasons they did it. What is questionable here is Russian's action towards the attack, because it really looks like an invasion of Georgian territory.
Specullating too much over the "blame game" would not be very wise as for the PROPAGANDA WAR is on and it is not cold.

Let's try to look the big picture here to try to understand why they invaded Georgia and are threatening Poland.

I've read this whole thread and I got the feeling that some here may not understand what NATO stands for, so lets look into it:

The Parties of NATO agreed that an armed attack against one or more of them in Europe or North America shall be considered an attack against them all. Consequently they agree that, if such an armed attack occurs, each of them, in exercise of the right of individual or collective self-defense will assist the Party or Parties being attacked, individually and in concert with the other Parties, such action as it deems necessary, including the use of armed force, to restore and maintain the security of the North Atlantic area.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NATO

Now I've read somewhere (sorry to not provide the source here, but it was credible I just on't remember, so feel free to correct me) that after the unification of Germany, a treaty was done between Russia and the US to stop NATO's growth towards Russian borders. Now if this treaty was indeed signed by both parts, then te US lied to them.
NATO's growth

Now look NATO's future

Have you noted the hard green marked countries? At least Georgia will probably enter NATO next year according to wikipedia. So here may be the cause of the Russian invasion.

If you just look at the map you can see NATO and USoccupied territories are indeed pretty much closing the circle around Russia, so yeah Russia has the right to be scared and they probably should be.


If you have read this far you might be thinking I am some kind of pro-Russian guy. Let me state this, what I am is pro-LIFE and pro-PEACE, considering this I don't particurally like both because all they sem to do to grow economically is WAR (hitory may back me up on this).


Adding to that I would like to speculate something here (yes I already speculated a little) and say that Iraq and Affeganistain might have a big role in this and maybe the war over these are not lost neither won. Last year I thought I heard Bush saying that in 2008 he would begin the retreat of US troops off Iraq (I might be wrong on this one as my memory is not really relyable) but in the middle of this conflict on Georgia he "starts" negotiating with Iraqis to stabilish PERMANENT military bases on Iraq, thats an interesting coincidence.

Please don't take me as a NWO mongers as I never really really considered it to be true, but instead just an interesting theory to explain whats going on in the world today. But there might be other theories, we really need to think outside of the box here and consider not just one theory, that is my opinion.

After all this my thoughts onthis matter are:
- Both countries would looove cold war 2;
- Neither one of them is the "good guy" here, they both claim to fight against oppression, altho both of them do opress others;
- Mr. Bush scares the hell outta me, even more then Puttin does.

I hope that my post can be usefull for this discussion to go further.
Please don't come basing me of anti-americanism as I stated I am just pro-PEACE as a good brazilian I am.

Please forgive my lack of english writing skills, but I think I made my point very clear.

Edited to include some text

[edit on 21-8-2008 by MorfeuZ]

Originally posted by Trayen11
One quick question, when exactly is this missle supposed to go into Poland, I know they have reached an agreement to have it there, but when is it actually going to be in place and up and running.

I have being watching CNN alot these last days, mostly to see how far they would go on the PROPAGANDA WAR (yes, they are exagerating the facts and forgetting to tell the other side). Anyway, I watched this guy's interview on CNN (sorry to not remember his name) stating that the shield should be operatonal at 2011-2012 (yes 2012). No, I don't believe in the 2012's doomsday. We should note also that the shield is aimed to protect NATO, wich now covers the most of EU and next year probably will be extended. The interviewed stated that Poland was the choice because the shield would cover most NATO's countries execpt a few parts of Turkey and also some parts in another country wich I dont remember.

Chears.

[edit on 21-8-2008 by MorfeuZ]

dear russia,

you want to stop being evil pricks? medevev and putin and whatever other gangsters are now running the narco state the once proud country of russia has become - have through start and stop cease fires and troop withdrawls made Baghdad Bob look like Churchill.

There are TEN interceptors in Poland. The capacity to shoot down a handful of missles, not a hundred, not a thousand, TEN. NATO and Poland have both reached out to include the Russians in their plans and construction.

Any ksb reading this? bring it. you guys want war? put up or shut up. i have lost all respect for the Russian Federation - i always really admired and respected Russia - it's going to be tough and weird to watch the world defang them over the next two decades.

if it wasn't cold and dreary as sh#t there i'd almost excuse the whole 'the west wants to invade us'.

Russia - yes you have oil/natural gas - NO - no one wants to invade yr country - get over it.

seriously - you look like fools. but i guess it's better than petty kremlin murders. pussies.

Originally posted by damagemouse
dear russia,

you want to stop being evil pricks? medevev and putin and whatever other gangsters are now running the narco state the once proud country of russia has become - have through start and stop cease fires and troop withdrawls made Baghdad Bob look like Churchill.

There are TEN interceptors in Poland. The capacity to shoot down a handful of missles, not a hundred, not a thousand, TEN. NATO and Poland have both reached out to include the Russians in their plans and construction.

Any ksb reading this? bring it. you guys want war? put up or shut up. i have lost all respect for the Russian Federation - i always really admired and respected Russia - it's going to be tough and weird to watch the world defang them over the next two decades.

if it wasn't cold and dreary as sh#t there i'd almost excuse the whole 'the west wants to invade us'.

Russia - yes you have oil/natural gas - NO - no one wants to invade yr country - get over it.

seriously - you look like fools. but i guess it's better than petty kremlin murders. pussies.

Maybe you can teatch me on this one as I don't really know the internals of the NATO shield. IS it too much to assume that the complicated part of the shield is stabilishing radar or satellites to detect the missles over the territory? As the shield is built and done, wouldn't it be easy to just send other interceptors to Poland in case it is needed?

[edit on 21-8-2008 by MorfeuZ]

[edit on 21-8-2008 by MorfeuZ]

reply to post by magicmushroom



True you did fight the nazis all alone but remind me why you guys had to deal with them oh thats right you acted like your doing now being scraed cowards not willing to stop hitler till he was at your doors knocking it down then you guys decided to fight. you guys were dragged kicking and screaming to war you didnt pick it remember that when you try to be brave

Originally posted by LiquidMirage

Originally posted by manson_322
Russia must smash the evil imperialist US empire , before it murders more russian people , like how it got done through its stooges in Georgia

May God Bless Orthodox Christian Russia to obliterate the Satanic USA and win WW3 , in case USA tries to attack Russia

What's the matter Charlie...towel rapped a little too tight?

Let russia make a move on us. We will respond with overwhelming and disproportional force!

and then Russia will obliterate USA in a nuclear strike ,killing off 250 million plus in USA in less than a hour

I don't know why Russia is even bothered about the crapy missile shield.Apparenlty the shield can only intercept 1 or 2 missiles.It can't stop Russia if they decide to rain decoys than nukes anywhere they want.

Good lord,

This is getting ridiculous.

Why is it that everyone seems to be wittering on about a defensive missile shield without asking WHY the Russians consider it to be a destabilising weapon system?

All the reasoning presented thus far seems to consist of:

"It's defensive because Condoleezza Rice says so and she's our hero" or
"It cannot possibly shoot down all of Russia's stockpile of 6600+ strategic warheads etc so it must be defensive".

Take a look at the situation and start to think!

The Russians consider this thing to be a destabilising FIRST STRIKE weapon system and it doesn't matter what you have been told it is or what the US government says it is.
And just to let you all in on a little secret, they have a very good reason for thinking the way they do.


Here is how it works:


1. The US launches its Nukes first.

2. Those Nukes take out most of Russia's Ordinance on the ground.

3. Russia's surviving warheads are launched in retaliation. (In accordance with the doctrine of mutually assured destruction)

4. The US's 'defensive' missile system takes those warheads out as they launch in a counterpunch strike.

5. Ta Daaa! Profit!


Yup, that's right kiddies...Global Thermonuclear war is now 'Winnable', and if that concept doesn't worry you there's no hope at all.

reply to post by Absence of Self


It's a False flag scenario.
Iran doesn't have the capability to strike Europe, but the US in the gulf can...
so:
1) US fleet in gulf launches balistic to europe
2) Rocket shield in Poland is deployed
3) US blames Iran for the attack and nukes Iran.

Mehh.. The entire point it moot. If.. IF any side is stupid enough to light off a nuclear weapon you can kiss the entire world good bye.

Scenario
1. Russia attacks NATO state X .. US and majority of other NATO countries respond with Nuclear weapons. China is targeted .. So are certain Mid East countries.... Lets say 75% of all weapons detonate

End result .. Everyone on both sides and the rest of the world are killed.. If not from initial nuclear blasts then from radiation.

2. US first strikes Russia... Russia nukes the USA and The EU / NATO.. China Responds with their own strike at the US and anyone else they dont like. US launches strikes at China etc etc ..

End result ... Everyone on both sides and the rest of the world are killed.. If not from initial nuclear blasts then from radiation.

3,4,5,6,7,8,, ETC ETC ETC..

The only way to win in nuclear war is not to play the stupid game it is.

I have said it over and over.. Only a truly suicidal idiot of a leader is going to initiate nuclear warfare. And i don't think Bush or Putin is that stupid.. Yes they are both dumber then bricks but not that dumb.

If i am wrong... Well you can bend over and kiss it goodbye.. Unless you live somewhere where the radiation wont wipe you out.. (Australia maybe.. or South America)

Even if you survive you most likely wont have electricity or working cars.. Due to massive EMP weapons detonated in the upper atmosphere that will shut down the entire globe. (That is unless you have them Shielded.)

Etc etc etc.... Lets just hope these people are not this stupid.

You never tell a SUPERPOWER what to do. To do so, will cause you to be blown back to the stone age!

I was very puzzled by the events of Georgia attacking Russian peace keeper positions but after the the latest political responses from the Russian side I am starting to understand why this might have happened.

a) Georgia was not acting alone, they had to have backing from the US.

b) The US has now fully realised they cannot attack Iran. Maybe they had not actual intention to this after all they just used it as leverage to help things normalize in Iraq and they feared of a large counteroffensive from anti-US forces.

c) Their actual plan might be that in order to convince the world that for a full US global domination has to happen, first all opposed axis countries like Russia etc must be neutralized. If this holds any truth, then I must expect plans for a nuclear exchange in the future between US and Russia. Frankly this is not the future I am hopping to raise children in. I cannot trust any more of the usual US chest beating and their efforts of convincing everybody they can protect everyone everywhere 24/7 simply because I saw what happened in Iraq. I saw what happened in Georgia. I see what is happening in Afghanistan. I even saw what happened in NY at 2001 9-11.

I for one don't give a damn about what the US wants to do with its army, I am worried thought that now it seems that Russia itself has adopted a new plan more active this time. I am worried since even in my own country we have military US installations it seems they might get us in trouble with a this new Russian strategy, I also consider that Russians control a large portion of energy resources following through Europe, plus they are not alone in their actions as they are leaders of a whole strong alliance, with any member probably ready to follow close on any decision being made from the Russian side.

Anyway since Stalin has long gone and i do not think we will be seeing the rise of the old USSR once more since things and circumstances have changed, I do not think I am in an immediate danger from anyone atm, and in order for things to remain this way I would ask for a lesser US presence.
I can understand that US needs any support and bases they can get to chase their "ghost" terrorists but frankly I don't care, I want my own peace.

[edited for more content]

[edit on 21-8-2008 by spacebot]

[edit on 21-8-2008 by spacebot]