[HOAX]Is my Grandfather a time traveler or a joker?[HOAX]

Like many others who have replied to this,i believe this to be very interesting.I have just recently joined ats but i have watched and looked at threads for approximately a year now,and this is one of the most intriguing thing i have run across so far.I think that it would be very helpful and interesting for people if you took time and maybe scanned all pages of the book and made it into a simple website.Or if you would like if you scanned all pages and send the information to my email i would gladly look over it and give you answers and opinions if this was a joke or something real.Send to my email if you want to try that out.

[email protected]

Its a hoax, and I think it is CG, not scanned. If you look at the typing, it is completely straight, even though some of the pages have lots of creases/folds. Looks like the pages were created on photoshop, and then a text box was put over the pages. Also, the colors are too smooth to not be CG.

sorry- too hard to believe this.


heres some info

1. IF this manual was left in a sealed chest for so long how did it get burned and why are the staples not rusty. unless the chest was airtight i would say that the staples would be rusty.

2. an official government manual not photocopied would be bound. it wouldnt be stapled. i have never encountered a government manual or any manual that was stapled.

3. now lets speculate this manual was made in the future seeing as how it is a manual for time travel. you mean to tell me that in the future they still use laser printers and glue on the logos of the manuals. think man think!

4. the burn effect was a nice touch but you have to explain how and why it was burned. it looks way too fresh. i mean at the bottom center is that....ash??

but unfortunately i believe all these points have already been mentioned in the oh so many pages that people have posted.


as a hoax on a 1 - 10 scale i give you a 4.5
Presentation 4
story 5


good job. maybe next time.

Firstly, let me say that I do not *believe* that this document is genuine in the context of an "official document" - whether from the future or not. So, that said, let me say this, why do we have to see so many posts stating "hoax hoax hoax"?

As anybody who has undertaken any form of even partially scientific investigation will tell you, look at the evidenc first and then determine a diagnosis of *probability* for a given thesis... Not a churlish statement!

Are we simply in the game of labelling a person a "hoaxer" because what they present does not match *their* stated belief? Ultimately, we have the evidence of some photographs that clearly show a printed document. Yes, the evidence appears to show that the document does not conform to *our* expectations, however, it doesn't preclude any number of possibilities.

Does this mean that the OP poster is a hoaxer? Only if he has specifically aimed to deceive or defraud us. Is there clear evidenc of that? No!

The term "hoax" is bing bandied about much too much lately and does a diservice to all ATS members - especially those breaking new stories - The gem that we are all waiting for may slip through our fingers simply because people are ridiculed just as much on ATS as they are in the mainstream.

We are more imaginative than that. We can examine the evidence and promote a thesis that explains the details. We then judge whether that thesis is probable. That was the in the good old days anyway!

OK, I'm getting off my high horse - I just think that the ignore button is a better way to go than crying "hoax" at every opportunity. Nuff said.

Hmm, on the, i guess third picture, the text says about a third world war and 22 years of peace. wars began in 2030 again so the 22 years of peace would start this year.

I havent read the thread yet, and i will read all the uploaded images, but this already screams hoax to me. A book being written with a typewriter in whatever year after 2030, i dont buy that, yet.

Can't say whether or not this the same person, or even the same manual,
but some time back, 2-3 years, this same story was posted on a forum..(was thinking anomalies network, maybe)...grandfather died and left book. What is smart is using the "grandfather" as the book giver, because any searches for "grandfather" floods the results with the paradox of the same name.

reply to post by zooplancton


Chances are this is a hoax... however one must look at our current state of affairs with education to see where the trend is going with the future.. I would not base my decision on grammar as it is likely that in the future (especially if more wars happen) Grammar would not be important.. If a military type of society has evolved from the wars it is highly likely that documents would contain many grammatical errors..

Here is a strange suggestion: What if his grandfather was in fact a time traveler that got trapped in the past?

The documents look official and I wonder if the president isn't a president of the future?

I don't discount time travel, as I myself, saw the events of 9/11 at 12 years of age back in the 1970's and was recorded in 1993/4 on video stating that I would be in my late 30's at the time of the event.

During the period that this information came to me, I had gone missing for 3-4 hours. It was 6:25 when I left my friends house, and it was either 9:30, or 10pm, as the news was on when I came through the door. To me only seconds had elapsed, not hours.

So, I do believe that time travel is possible given the right equipment and the ability to warp space and time. I know that the majority of UFO's have the ability to travel through different time frames.

What is to say that mankind is not going to have the ability to travel in time in the near future?

What is to say that in this point and time that our governments have been secretly working on and developing time travel, as we discuss it here?

What is to say that our governments haven't already found a way to travel through time?

Does anybody remember the boot print that was found fossilized that dated back to either the Jurassic or Cretaceous period? I have a photo of it I think in one of my books. I will have to check my library. Ask yourself this question: Whose boot print was it? How did it get there? Was it human, or Alien? If human, could they have been a time traveller?

I don't dismiss time travel, because I know that it is possible. Anybody who has experienced missing time with UFO connections will know how you think and feel that a brief time has passed, when in fact minutes and hours have elapsed and in some cases days.

My experience, which I now to believe that I had been taken to the future by the occupants, and brought back to my own time with a delay of 3-4 Earth hours of elapsed time, but to me was seconds, and no more than a couple of minutes.

Since that experience, I don't see time as fixed and linear, but as a never-ending circle.

This might be a bit off-topic-but it brings me to a theory about Shadow People. I have like many others have seen Shadow People. I had been watching the movie: Spooked. People mentioned that there were numerous Shadow People moving about the Sanitorium. It got me thinking that the Shadow People are people carrying on and doing what they did in their time frame, which is their present and our past. I feel that for a brief time the past and present merge briefly.

So, somebody could take this and work out how to open dimensional portals in time where somebody could travel back and forth. Yes, back and forth. I believe that we can travel to the future, as I experienced when I was 12, and go into the past. I think there are just veils that seperate time frames to maintain order. However, the past, present and future are intertwined and not linear.

I'll try to answer a few things before I go for a while.


The book is on my poorly takes care of basement/old computer storage room.




I do not know anything about the paper. The papers posted are all that's left. The chest isn't exactly a chest. I call it that out of habit. It's really a tin case.

I think my allegiances are with this being a last hoax of a dieing man. I just wanted to ask if the science mentioned in it made sense or was practical.

I don't know anything about how old the case is, why it was so important, or if the manual was a copy or original of anything at all.


My Grandfather told me interesting bed time tales that may have something to do with this. I'll post them when I've got time and remember them all. (It's obviously been a while since I had a bed time story)


Why the paper looks burned, has marks, or has misspelling I do not know. Sorry. That's why I posted it; I had a conflict of thinking. It seems scientific enough to be real, but too un-professional and messy to be serious.

Imagine if we time travel to the past and the only proof we have is a print out of Above top secret page.. People would laugh and say. well its obviously a hoax because of all the errors! they would just laugh and leave.. We need to look at this with an open mind.

reply to post by Tegmondy


I would like to see the a complete scan of the manuel. I am very interested in reading all of it. Even if your grandfather perpetrated a "hoax" it seems very interesting although if what you say is true. Why would your grandfather when passing away give you somthing based on a lie? Somthing inside tells me there is truth to this.. People think that because we have good grammar now that in the future it should be the same or better..If you look at the way this country is heading on education I can believe the bad grammar in the manuel especially if a military type of society has evolved here.

[edit on 15-8-2008 by thefreepatriot]

If anyone was on the fence before, they shouldnt be now. After I asked him to post the pics with him holding the book... he did so. Still looks like photo-shopped typing.. But more curious......


THe front page has the blueish square symbols GLUED ON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Again, I must state the small amount of knowledge I have here. Forensic anthropology was one of my more favorite of the science classes for my major.

Problems...

1. The paper has obviously been recently burnt. Any paper over real amount of time would not have such a color distinction between burnt and old, the burnt, being weaker would be to brittle and fade away.

2. THE INK. The stamp for the PRESIDENT is faded away, but the typing and THE SIGNATURE are in pristine condition.

Sorry, this is not arguable. this is undeniable proof that this is a hoax. Time to call it that mods. This is allllllll HOAX. Anyone who says otherwise is skipping or ignoring the obvious here.

Computer generated font for the "manual" headline on a supposed old document??? Pleeeeeez!!!

This is the work of a frustrated sci-fi writer, and a very over used story line at that. Call Argosy magazine!

reply to post by thefreepatriot


You dont think the military has spell check? Even with the bad spelling in our education, we thankfully have that nifty spell check document.

You are telling me the worlds greatest minds in human history who learned to bend time, now either forgot to use the spell check, or cant spell.


For shame.....

I suppose. hmmm.
As I said, that's the scan.

i think you may mean that you can only see half the page. I made a mention that I resized it wrong. just right click i and click view, or open in new tab, or the equivalent in your Internet explorer.

Also, I forgot to mention, the paper isn't printing paper. It's like cotton drawing paper, or the stuff you see old books written on. it has that un smooth feeling to it.

reply to post by Tegmondy


He was a joker. I guess he wanted to have one last laugh.

-Euclid

I wouldn't site the burn marks on the edges are proof that it's a fake.

Also I wouldn't site the bold nature of the text when being scanned as proof that it's fake.

About 10 years ago I lived with some party crazy room mates, and being an Artist I had (still have some of them) about 10 sketch books all stacked nicely in my room. Well to make a short story of it, while I was away my room mates had a party and someone got into my room and left a burning cigarette on the edge of my sketch books. Luckily they weren't completely destroyed, but the bottom edge of all the sketch books were badly burned in a similar fashion to what is seen here. It is possible that they are genuine.

As for the bold text that looks like it was put on there after the fact? Scanners just do that depending on what you are scanning in, and what settings you use and a scanner doesn't always represent a true 1 to 1 image. I've done thousands of scans of my artwork for use in photoshop and sometimes it makes pencil lines look like blue marker lines, It makes text look super dark even though it's not and overall the quality can be less than optimal.

The grammar and syntax would be the main concern. Even then though I don't see how you could make a logical conclusion.

I'm not saying that this is real, I don't care one way or another, I'm just saying that the basis for what you guys seem to be concluding hoax are seriously flawed. This book needs to be looked at and examined buy someone in "Real Life" to make a valid conclusion.

reply to post by bknapple32


The op clearly stated he was trying to find out if this was a hoax or real... He does not know himself.. This is what we are trying to determine. Just because the ink from the stamp has faded and the signature is still intact does not mean its a hoax.. it could be a different type of Ink.. and if photoshop was used .. then why would he need to physically cut and paste the logo? remember if there are devastating wars in the future.. some of the technologies we currently use to make picture perfect manuels\books could have been put aside or forgotten...