America is not afraid to kick Russia out of Georgia

reply to post by nunya13


We need to stop watching the news.... dare i say boycott? and tell everyone to come to ATS! ATS should start a video news program. I haven't watched the news for almost a year now... Whenever I see someone glued to the tele wathcing the "news' I actually feel pity for them... I get more news in 10 mins on the internet then I would watching a years worth of faux news! I can see the demise of television network programming on the horizon..... give it 5-10 years.

reply to post by kindred


Anyone one who mixes anti-american with being anti-bush I can seriously question if there a true american.. Don't even waste your time on these people I wouldn't be surprised if there COINTEL. Just ignore the attacks.

reply to post by Randy Echo


America is not afraid to kick Russia out of Georgia

Enough already, if you all want to hate me fine, but a few things need to be sorted out:

1. America

Randy Echo, I respect your sacrifice for your country, however:

I don't know you from Adam, so unless I missed a memo kindly speak for yourself and only for yourself. I absolutely refuse to concede to you the right to speak for me and you do not have the right to speak for any other American. I and the rest will exercise that right if and when we choose to. You rolled out of bed today and said to yourself, "you know I'm smart, informed, and armed. As such I can extrapolate from my own blessed self and assume that all of America is just like me. Where is ATS? Wait till they get a load of American Me."

Same applies to your liberal use of the word "we" throughout the OP. Even Lee Greenwood, for all his lowest common denominator patriotism, doesn't have the gall to say "we" when he speaks of America. What is this? "we are looking like complete wimps.." Whoa, slow down there sport, who exactly this "we" you speak of? At best "we" can be taken to encompass you and a couple of like minded friends. And if the foreign policy of the United States of America, such as it may be, is making you feel "wimpy" then too bad. Is the USA to invade Russia to alleviate you of this personal crisis? Is the American government to act according to your daily needs?

2. not afraid

The United States of America is a sovereign nation. "Nation" is a noun. As such, by definition it is, give or take a couple of inches to account for continental shift, an inanimate object incapable of having or demonstrating feelings. Its people on the other hand do have and express their feelings and ideas, subject to the limitations of the "speak for yourself" above mentioned guideline or through their elected/appointed officials.

3. Russia/Georgia

This is for all the posters who have done the same as Randy Echo across the board.
By reducing the dialog to "the Russians/Europeans/Muslims are like this, the French/Iranians will do that", you essentially forfeit any chance that intelligent/constructive debate can ensue.

People are dying right now, as we type.

These are complicated and tremendously important issues that deserve our serious attention, not playground declarations.

Thus the debate, if it is to have any merit, must take place with precise and specific facts. For example, when talking about Russia, we can make points like:

- The Russian president/prime minister said...
- The Russian parliament voted to...
- The Russian military forces...
- The Russian people (insert poll)...
- Russian history shows...

These are but a few examples and should apply when we speak of any nation including and especially the USA.

It is a matter of respect for your country and for yourself. When you hear anecdotal comments from abroad, where someone, says Americans are like this or that, you can in part thank Randy Echo and all those who blurt out things like: "America is not afraid to kick Russia out of Georgia."

Why not go all the way and just say "America kicks ass", chuck your Dale Jr. cap in the air, crush you can of beer on your head and let out a primal scream.

No matter where any of us are from. Let's speak intelligently, without broad brush generalizations, with specific accurate facts in hand. This approach makes for an informative and powerful conversation, on ATS or anywhere else. Who knows, it this approach were applied more frequently, one could almost dare to hope, that we may one day find real solutions to real problems.




[edit on 8/15/2008 by schrodingers dog]

A little off topic, but I think we should get out of the war were in now before we go rushing into a war we can't handle.

America is the furthest in debt we have ever been, theres a way to get out of the debt and i'm sure you all know w hat must be done (WW3 with the government).

As far as technology goes, America is'nt the most advanced, doesn't have the best Nuke plan, doesn't have the best flying program, and deffinately doesn't have the best Navy.

Do some research into the planes and programs of other countries, you will all see that most of all the top nations are neck in neck and some even have better technologies then we do.

America is still running on oil for crying out loud, as far as i can see that is deffinately behind.

reply to post by constantwonder


CT, you made some valid points.
Please re-post without obscenities so that your thoughts are not lost.

CNN - Rice

Rice: This is no longer 1968, and the invasion of Czechoslovakia, when a great power invaded a small neighbour and overthrew its government.

lol no Connie, this is the 21st century when a great power can invade and overthrow whoever hell they want, neighbour or not!

[edit on 15/8/2008 by malganis]

my apologies to the board for my "obscene" post

allow to me to re-state what i said before

I joined ATS to pursue thoughtful intellegant discussion outside the normal dogmatic world of the political blogosphere. Since i have joined there has been a severe decline in the quality of dicussion in forums not only in skunkworks but above politics, sci/tech and even general conspiricies, every other thread these days seems to be mindless anti-american rhetoric not faced only at US policies but very broad attacks centered on the american people...these posts add little to the discussion and cause people to be fed up with ATS on a broad scale. Even in sci/tech every discussion falls victom to mindless assaults from one poster to the other. All these couch jockeys who sit at there computers all day and spew abusive hateful bigotry and devisive rhetoric in a forum designed to give an outlet to those who want to have intellegant conversation outside the mainstream bloggosphere make me sick... and unfortunately it seems ATS has become a bastion of hate and very disheartening devisiveness. I joined ATS with the hopes of finding good information and conversation about a broad spectrum of topics with people who felt compelled to come here aswell to escape the dolldrums of "mainstream forums". It seemed a good decision for awhile, but the steady decline of quality thoughtful threads and posts have proven once again that people who cannot express themselves in an informative and factbase manor result to mud slinging and fingerpointing.

I'm sorry ATS'ers but the fact is we too have been sucked unfortunately into the same dogmatic narrow minded rhetoric that we purposefuly set out to avoid

Originally posted by Randy Echo
obviously you believe we havent implemented any kind of protection from nukes, we have, its in place and it works 100 percent of the time, its been tested, and it has about 4 different levels of itself,

1. anti missle umbrella coast to coast, in place
2. particle beam weapons and space based kinetic weapons
3. high altitude ionization that will destroy missles in flight


So I am not worried about russian missles, at all actually
so if they want to go that route let em,

They will be the ones living under the ground
not us

Even if your magical "lasers" could hit the Russian nukes, what if Russian launched so many nukes that even if they were exploded on site the resulted radiation would kill everyone anyway, even no missile itself hit America?

You'd be ******. Lols.

reply to post by Randy Echo


What planet are you living on. There is no coast to coast anti-missle defense system in the U.S. Only on ships at fleet off the coast of one or more rogue nations to catch missles during the the first stage of flight.
Russia's ICBM's are all over central Asia, they are mobile, which means a first strike is impossible, and they fly over the north pole not near the coast. There is no particle beam or "Star Wars" weapons. They were researched but never developed. We pushed a hostile military alliance right up to Russia's border, even after their political system had collapsed and conventional forces were severely diminished. We kicked them when they were down and then tried to take over their petroleum and natural gas industry. I'm sure they are now saying "Remember Kosovo"! J.Reb

ventilation is needed to breathe
or one will become asphyxiated
On ats there seems to be just about
everyone trying to change someone
else's opinion
why?

Post your thoughts and leave the freedom
of those reading those opinions to either accept
or reject them

leave it at that

I as an american do not include anyone else that doesn't want
to be included, don't ride, don't go, do whatever it is that you want
and if your included, it's at your own risk

Everyone has called me this and that for being the op that started this
thread, remember there is nothing at all wrong for sharing ideas

but I also take it to be that you feel I might be trying to spread hate
and let me tell you,
from the responses I have seen with all the cussing and run downs
what a perverse country we live in, and I mean the country as an Institution MR. shrodigers dog fellow,
not as a noun.

I do like it when others share certain feelings about things as I do
but that is a similarity, liking the same beer, it isn't a reason for me to
dance around my house around a fire I built on my living room floor like a savage chanting "me so happy Echo found friend"

How many people expressed themselves fully in this thread, don't you feel good now after "ventilating" or that release of your inner emotions, because that is all this post has been about, is a place for people who are concerned about why this and why that could come and let it out, and I have loved everyword that everyone has written, and some I cannot read because the Mods have removed it before I could even see it,

Welcome to America, Enjoy your right of expression and speech

R.E.


[edit on 15-8-2008 by Randy Echo]

I tell you. Every time I hear Bush or Condi say something about "Russia needs to leave Georgia" it makes my skin crawl? Why?

Because this is a gross simplification. You have to TOTALLY ignore the South Ossetian issue to say something so dumbly. Well, I have news for Condi and Bush CO.. it's America and it's looney CIA/Israeli intelligence apparatus that needs to get the @#$% out of South ossetia.. etc.

Let me hold everyones hand and make it REALLY simple for the simpletons:

South Ossetia, Abkhazi voted a LONG time ago to stay part of Russia so what excuse do WE or GEORGIA have for attacking the South Ossetians? Tensions has been simmering for years, mainly because of the meddling/provocetering done by the CIA and Israeli intelligence . Why?

I've pretty much got that much figured out but I wish someone would answer me that intelligently here.



I have to say though, I'm getting just a little more than tired of globalist, supergovernmental interests using America to commit evil in MY name.
It makes me SICK.




I'm all for democracy and Georgia getting it's act together but South Ossetia? Leave them the @#% alone and get out, I don't care what kind of interest: oil, economic or otherwise. The South Ossetians DON'T want to be part of Georgia. GET OVER IT, ENOUGH ALREADY. When South Ossetia votes to be part of Georgia then more power to us and as far as I'm concerned Russia can occupy the region as long as they see fit.


[edit on 15-8-2008 by ViewFromTheStars]

On topic please....

Staying On Topic

Please revue the above link if you have any questions...

Semper

Hi There,

America is not afraid to kick Russia out of Georgia.

Here we go again...rhetoric and nationalistic jingoism...yawn!

I was an american in the army back in the early eighties...

May I assume that you are 'still' an American now, although perhaps, no longer in the army? Me...I was an Englishman when I was born, and you know what...funnily enough, I still am!

We are looking like complete wimps right now because we have the men, the tools, the reason, and world opinion on our side...

No! You do not have 'world' opinion on your side, you don't even have the whole of America on your very low wavelength. Many Americans are quite aware of what went down in Georgia, and understand full well that the Georgian political and military idiots who started the conflict underestimated the Russian resolve and ability to kick Georgian ass. Russia has clearly sent a message to the world that you mess with its borders at your peril.

It would seem that you do not care in the least the death and destruction to be unleashed should America/Nato forces start slugging it out with the Russians. If you ask the Germans for a history lesson, they'll tell you all about Russian steadfastness, resolve, and courage, against a vastly superior trained and equipped force. How many people should die in order to satisfy your nationalistic pride and bloodlust?

What we are seeing in the failing relations between the West and Russia, is American machination to re-create a cold-war front with the Russians, as well as maintain the over-hyped threat of terrorism. This is to ensure that stage-managed conflicts continue a long time into the future for the arms makers. It's all about maintaining the worst possible industry on the planet for the profit of the greedy and avaricious few. That people die in these stage-managed conflicts, is merely incidental, and of little consequence to the arms industry, there's always more human-fodder to be found in the poorer areas of any country.

As for the missile sheild being placed in East-European countries, they really do not have anything whatsoever to do with Iran. Such missile sheild is an attempt to shoot down the MIRV nukes of Russia at their launching. The idea being that it is easier to shoot down one rocket carrying multiple warheads before the warheads separate from the carrier rocket over its designated target. You cannot sheild against multiple incomings, but you can against their carriers. Thus, should Russia launch their rockets, the theory states that it is better and more feasible to shoot them down closer to their take off points, rather than over your own (or in) your own airspace. The Russians know this, so they'll take out those missle sheilds prior to launching their rockets. This will give America a bit more time to fire their's, but at that point, Russia will launch everything they've got in one mass attack, knowing they're going to be obliterated anyway. I doubt they'll care that much at that point. The missle sheild also makes American pre-emptive strikes more likely, and by that relative forewarning, it makes pre-emption by other countries just as likely also.

Just a few points to consider as you dance around your flag...

Best wishes

[edit on 15/8/08 by elysiumfire]

Originally posted by elysiumfire
Hi There,

America is not afraid to kick Russia out of Georgia.

Here we go again...rhetoric and nationalistic jingoism...yawn!

I was an american in the army back in the early eighties...

May I assume that you are 'still' an American now, although perhaps, no longer in the army? Me...I was an Englishman when I was born, and you know what...funnily enough, I still am!

We are looking like complete wimps right now because we have the men, the tools, the reason, and world opinion on our side...

No! You do not have 'world' opinion on your side, you don't even have the whole of America on your very low wavelength. Many Americans are quite aware of what went down in Georgia, and understand full well that the Georgian political and military idiots who started the conflict underestimated the Russian resolve and ability to kick Georgian ass. Russia has clearly sent a message to the world that you mess with its borders at your peril.

It would seem that you do not care in the least the death and destruction to be unleashed should America/Nato forces start slugging it out with the Russians. If you ask the Germans for a history lesson, they'll tell you all about Russian steadfastness, resolve, and courage, against a vastly superior trained and equipped force. How many people should die in order to satisfy your nationalistic pride and bloodlust?

What we are seeing in the failing relations between the West and Russia, is American machination to re-create a cold-war front with the Russians, as well as maintain the over-hyped threat of terrorism. This is to ensure that stage-managed conflicts continue a long time into the future for the arms makers. It's all about maintaining the worst possible industry on the planet for the profit of the greedy and avaricious few. That people die in these stage-managed conflicts, is merely incidental, and of little consequence to the arms industry, there's always more human-fodder to be found in the poorer areas of any country.

As for the missile sheild being placed in East-European countries, they really do not have anything whatsoever to do with Iran. Such missile sheild is an attempt to shoot down the MIRV nukes of Russia at their launching. The idea being that it is easier to shoot down one rocket carrying multiple warheads before the warheads separate from the carrier rocket over its designated target. You cannot sheild against multiple incomings, but you can against their carriers. Thus, should Russia launch their rockets, the theory states that it is better and more feasible to shoot them down closer to their take off points, rather than over your own (or in) your own airspace. The Russians know this, so they'll take out those missle sheilds prior to launching their rockets. This will give America a bit more time to fire there's, but at that point, Russia will launch everything they've got in one mass attack, knowing they're going to be obliterated anyway. I doubt they'll care that much at that point. The missle sheild also makes American pre-emptive strikes more likely, and by that relative forewarning, it makes pre-emption by other countries just as likely also.

Just a few points to consider as you dance around your flag...

Best wishes

thankyou for your opinion

I am american
still american

not crazy, and by the way since everyone is all over me
I have calmed down alot alright
since I posted

im not postal anymore
I truely have read every response
and I understand alot more now than I did before

here is where my head is right at the moment
I know I have no control over what happens over there
do any of us?
I know people are dying, and I wish truely that would end
I dont want the world to die
I am sorry for posting this

may you all forgive me

Hey There,

No Problem, mate. You take care now.

Best wishes

I agree with the original article we should push russia out of georgia and we could do it quite easily. MAD is a consideration, but we can't let that stop us from doing what is right. The Europeans are wimps always have been and always will be. They would sit idly by as country after country fell and then ask for our help when they were all conquered. Almost everyone is forced to go into the russian army, no one wants to go. Against our troops, air power, and navy they would not stand a chance. We could easily drive them out of Georgia and stop there.

Most of you who rejected this argument did so with emotion and not a lot of thought. Calm down for a second. The quickest way to real, large war, is to show weakness. If you show you are strong you will solve your problems. Its still not perfect and totally painless, but it works. Remember under Carter when the Arabs would taunt us and say we were paper tigers and we would never do anything? How many say that now? Iraq is won. Afghanistan is won. Hotspots? yes, but basically over. Pakistan outlying regions and this conflict in Georgia is all we have left to settle.

If we don't settle it now...Russia will invade Ukraine and Poland. Both countries were already threatened by them recently. If they invade those two countries...we will definitely see WW3.

Originally posted by Randy Echo
we are looking like complete wimps right now because we have the men, the tools, the reason, and world opinion on our side right now to do it, we pushed the iraqis out of kuwait and we could push the russians out of Georgia, I think now is the time we grow some resolve and get them invaders out of our allied country...

Georgia, our esteemed ally is the aggressor, the country that started the war by shelling and killing innocent people, essentially levelling the capital city of South Ossentia. We are taking up for the bad guys. The Russians came in and saved the lives of innocent civilians, including Americans - The Russians are HEROES... and America has found itself on the wrong side of the conflict.

Bush should be telling the Georgian president that he got what he deserved for acting so foolishly, but no. Instead of slapping Putin on the back and saying "GOOD JOB!" Bush is fanning the flames of war against the Russians who did what Russians do - somebody beat up on their friends and they stepped in and kicked ass.

America, thanks to Bush's lack of sound judgement has now lost the moral highground at a time when we need more than ever to show that we favor the good guys and punish the bad guys.

Sucks for us... when is this jerk out of office? Not soon enough.