If there is no air in space, how do they use rockets to position the space shuttle?

Originally posted by Phage
Here's a real tough one (this ought to be good): when you walk, you move the earth backward, moving your body forward.

That's not really a tough one if you think about it...the process of walking does not push the earth backwards, obviously, but it does push the smaller particles of the earth backwards...it is about separating the smaller bits from the larger whole...walk on a beach and what do you see? Earth gives way just as water and air do; however, the difference is that earth, unlike air and water, has much more rigidity and mass in its structure.

Now, in terms of how the shuttle navigates in the vacuum of space....it is not a perfect vacuum, there is low density matter, therefore, there would be matter to "push off of." How to get ignition in the near vacuum, however, is more complicated...onboard the shuttle are various tanks of gases which are combined and ignited inside of various types of ion thrusters(Hall Effect Thrusters) rather than in the stereotypically thought of turbine engines or solid state thrusters that we tend to think of that rely on an oxygenated atmosphere to work....

But I am, by far, no rocket scientist.

(And on a second note, didn't even notice that there were so many posts already...so I'm sure someone has already said what I have a dozen times in many much more elaborite ways...)

[edit on 14/8/08 by madhatr137]

I Know there are suppose to be no stupid questions....but this is by far the dumbest thing I have ever heard. I cant believe this post is still up. what are you, 12 come on. newtons law explains all. maybe once you get in the 9th grade you will learn about it, that is if you make it to the ninth grade.

Originally posted by Manasseh
reply to post by Phage

 

*Snip* What is the burning of the rocket fuel pushing against to move the space shuttle.

Look, this question will burn your minds, until you accept that there are things in the universe that scientists, in all their self imposing glory, cannot explain.

Until you accept that, then we cannot move on to the next lesson, which is,

God is in control.

Amen?

[edit on 13-8-2008 by alien]

I find it very difficult to be PC here so I will be blunt (sorry moderators). You knowledge of basic physics is so poor you really need to read a book and not one full of 2000 year old stories. If what you are syaing is true then half of the sports at the Olympics would never work! The basic physics also manifest themselves here on earth. But hey ignorance is bliss isn't it!

Originally posted by malganis
reply to post by styxxz

 

That's what I was thinking lol, not that I know much on the subject but is it right to simplify it by saying that the rocket puts out a 'wave' of thrust which contains some air, then the next 'wave' pushes against the first 'wave', and so on?

That was a joke reply to op. but yes that's what I was saying, cept rockets don't require an atmos to produce thrust.

I read somewhere that scientists are toying with the idea of using sound-waves for space travel...

P.S. I think this discussion could be a lot more educational without all the flaming and holier than thou God and Heaven posts...

Completely agree

reply to post by neformore


neforemore!!

I relish the opportunity to actually read a post, and then find a good chuckle!

Usually, it happens rarely....yours just provoked that response!

Thank you!!

WW

I hope she looks like the picture.
I'm disappointed there's no flash, and not very interactive. You will nonetheless learn a bit about what's discussed here. It does say forces come in pairs.
Just to stay on topic.


[edit on 08/11/08 by freakngeckos]

Originally posted by Manasseh
reply to post by windwaker

 

No one can come up with an answer, because thrust in space is impossible, just like freezing temperatures are impossible because there is no temperature in space.

It's a big lie. No one has been to the heavens, accept those that God allows, and they sure weren't the like of Neil Armstrong.

Sir, you are a perfect example of how the original teachings of Jesus (if he existed) have been used to dumb down and manipulate billions of people. God maybe real, some things about religion may be right... but the way certain people use the "Bible" as their only answer and a way to be ignorant about almost every subject makes all religion look like a tool for the NWO. Use your brain that "God" gave you, don't use God as an excuse to question things you haven't researched and ignore common sense when you've taken no time to learn for yourself. Talk like that just puts a bad rap on all organized religion.

PS - There is an atmosphere on the moon, as well as all the other planets. They vary in a lot of ways but many are somewhat the same as Earth. I wouldn't be surprised if some of the planets are habitable or close to it. Dr. Deagle has some good vids on google video talking about colonies on the moon and mars already, among many other interesting things. I wouldn't doubt they'd cover that up

Originally posted by Manasseh
Here's my theory.

No one knows diddly squat about what they think they know everything about.

Therefore, one should trust God, as he/she/it is the ultimate creator.

Coming from someone who works for his maker, I am glad to see
relative silence from those who "know it all" on this subject.

Oh, by the way, your government is lying through their teeth.

Wait, so you doubt that man landed on the moon because there is no air in space for the propulsion systems to operate, BUT believe that god makes rockets in space move?

Doesn't that mean that we could have gone to the moon, but only using GOD as a probulsion system?

Hmm, that *IS* more plausible!!

Originally posted by Manasseh

Look, this question will burn your minds, until you accept that there are things in the universe that scientists, in all their self imposing glory, cannot explain.

Until you accept that, then we cannot move on to the next lesson, which is,

God is in control.

Amen?
[edit on 13-8-2008 by alien]

In other words, you didn't ask a question, you posed a hook in order to tell us all about god.

God is not in control.

Beer?

Think of a rocket motor as a spherical bomb. You ignite the bomb and there is equal pressure on all the surfaces of the bomb because the chamber is a sphere.

Now by opening a nozzle on any surface of the spherical bomb (rocket motor)you are removing the pressure from the vector where the nozzle is opened while all the other surfaces retain higher pressure than the nozzle end. Thus because there is less pressure on the nozzle end the rocket and what ever it is attached to moves in the opposite direction.


Here's a 2d sketch - sorry I'll I have is paint on this notebook, but I think it's simple enough.

Since, there is not much resistance in the vacuum of space and in the case of the shuttle it is traveling at 17,500 mph and in order to keep it on course you only need to fire tiny rockets in small amounts to keep it on vector.

So - the rocket pushes by creating greater pressure on the opposite side of the nozzle opening.

The flame or burning gases you see escaping from a rocket is just the remnants from the completed process - like the exhaust from your car doesn't push it down the road it is what's left over after the engine has worked. While children may believe that flame coming out of the exhaust is pushing against air for thrust, it is not so.

I posted this for myself and anyone else that's willing to listen - just in case.

[edit on 14-8-2008 by verylowfrequency]

I can't believe the idiocy I've seen in this forum. Are people stupid or do they just enjoy annoying people?
Back to the topic..

Imagine space. NEAR-vacuum (there are supposed to be SOME particles in space), and the temperature is just above freezing. (There has to be heat in space, of course, otherwise how would it get here from the sun? )

Then something, say an asteroid, explodes. Can you picture it? Little bits of asteroid going everywhere? Good.
Now, imagine rocket fuel in a space ship. It gets lit, and in effect, it explodes. Right?
But if theres only one direction it can go in (ie out the back of the 'engine'), what happens to all the energy in other directions? Well, for one the explosion wants to go the forwards as well as backwards, hence the rocket moves forwards.
The rocket won't go off on a tangent either, unless the thrusters get a hole that lets energy move in a direction that isn't forwards or backwards.
Think of a 'reverse' tug of war.

I'm not saying that God hasn't had some part in it, but at the most maybe he put these laws there for us to discover and toy with. And Einstein's Theory of Relativity doesn't say Newton's laws are wrong, they just need modifying for the most extreme circumstances.


And if anybody tries to debunk this, I'll go right ahead and debunk their existence as being nothing more than a figment of my imagination, 'cos this thread has given me a headache

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by Manasseh

 

www.google.com...

But it's lies. All lies!


[edit on 13-8-2008 by Phage]

[edit on 13-8-2008 by Phage]

Ever fired a gun? What do you feel when you fire it.

Recoil.

What causes that? Air? Atmosphere? Or the equal and opposite force of the bullet being expelled from the chamber?

Same thing in space, the force being expressed leaving the shuttle boosters works on the shuttle. Not on the space around it.

(edit - Bulling? How on earth did I conjure that word up!! Oo)

[edit on 8/14/2008 by bloodcircle]

I would like to pose a question to the OP.

Do you honestly believe that gas powers your car?

It's all elves! They are invisible and they push your car along the road. Have you ever gotten to a gas station when you were on "fumes?" Yeah. Those were no fumes, those were the elves still pushing your car even after you were out of gas.

Prove me wrong.



[edit on 14-8-2008 by MahNameABorat]

reply to post by verylowfrequency


Hahahaha!
Looks like you just beat me to it!
Great minds think alike et al...

Originally posted by Manasseh
Here's my theory.

No one knows diddly squat about what they think they know everything about.

Therefore, one should trust God, as he/she/it is the ultimate creator.

Coming from someone who works for his maker, I am glad to see
relative silence from those who "know it all" on this subject.

Oh, by the way, your government is lying through their teeth.

Mate, I am a great believer in the fact the humans do not yet understand the laws that govern our universe. I believe in the world of Quantum mechanics, string theory and all the possibilities therein.

But to denounce the current working theory and attribute it to 'God' is the single most ridiculous thing I have ever heard. My family is christian, my mother is especially vehement in her beliefs but even SHE wouldn't go that far and make such an unsubstantiated claim.

You are asking for proof of how shuttles are maneuvered in an environment and claiming that Newtons theories are bollocks, and yet you put forward your own hazy theory, which hasn't a chance in the world of being proven or disproven.

I think the only thing we agree upon is the fact that our governments are lying to us. But then again thats been obvious since Day 1.

EDIT: If you wish to have a discussion about the SCIENCE of this topic, I would love to debate this with you, as long as religion and beliefs are kept well away.

[edit on 14/8/2008 by Kryties]

Maybe this thread should be more about how the government has decieved us.

Maybe it should be about "why god needs a starship"

Maybe we have explored every single aspect of jet propulsion.

I don't know, I'm not God. But if he was here, I'm sure he would have told this guy off himself by now.

At this point I am kind of sorry for him have being stupid (to say the least)!

reply to post by Manasseh


No offense but don't what you are talking about. Like people saying a gun would be useless in space.

No gravity. Fire needs oxygen to burn which is there is enough trapped in the bullet to set it off. to push it and, since, there is no resistance for it to stop until it hits something it will travel the same speed until it hits something.

The same laws of pushing and/or thrusting apply in a vaccum with no air.
It actually travels faster than on earth because there is no resistance up there.

reply to post by avingard


Thus the propulsion of the rocket is not pushing against any mass of air, but against the rocket itself, right? (Newton's third law)

reply to post by Manasseh


By your logic, if two people are next to each other in space, floating freely, then they cannot push each other apart. Because after all, in a vacuum "there is nothing to push against". So true or false: if two people are right next to each other floating freely in a vacuum, and push each other away, they will both move away from each other?

Now apply the same logic to a rocket. One "person" is the rocket and the other "person" is the exhaust gas. While the gas is light, its traveling at thousands of miles per hour, which adds up to a hard push!