If there is no air in space, how do they use rockets to position the space shuttle?

reply to post by Manasseh


I'm sorry, Manasseh, you're wrong.

Btw there is more evidence that god is fake and that the whole bible and idea of a great one is a big ol myth than us being in space. I belive in god but still to give a fair argument there is OVERWHELMING evidence that it could be fake. We have OVERWHELMING evidence that we have traveled in space. FUnny

reply to post by Taledus


Jeez.

Satellites are propelled into space by using earth as something to push against.

They are held in space by the speed they travel (centrifugal force.. or is it centripatal) and the gravity pull of earth.

reply to post by Taledus


This is the most depressing thread I've ever seen on ATS. The OP seems absolutely unwilling to consider the information being shared by people far more knowledgeable than itself. I'm amazed that people are even trying to reason with this individual.

OP: the space shuttle's propulsion doesn't require dense atmosphere to manouvre or position itself.

Manasseh, I could spend a bunch of time researching answers for you that in every way answer your question. Though at this point it's pretty clear that you're not interested in what everyone is trying to tell you. I think that before you even opened this thread, you already decided that your theory is right.

Why did you even ask us how it works in the first place, if you already have all the answers? It's clear at this point that it's a matter of you not wanting to comprehend the answer, rather than you not being able to.

Your questions are always welcome on these forums but you just have to make sure you approach ATS with an open mind. I wish you the best on your journey to find the answer to this question.

YOU CANT HAVE THE DISSCUSSION OF WE HAVE NOT BEEN IN SPACE. If WE HAVE NEVER BEEN THERE THAN WE KNOW NOTHING. NOW KNOWING NOTHING HOW DO YOU NO ABOUT NO AIR AND ALL THESE MOLECULES. YOU HAVE TO BELEVIE THE FACT THAT WE HAVE BEEN TO SPACE. YOU CONATRICT YOURSELF. EXPLAIN THIS

Originally posted by Manasseh
reply to post by Taledus

 

Jeez.

Satellites are propelled into space by using earth as something to push against.

They are held in space by the speed they travel (centrifugal force.. or is it centripatal) and the gravity pull of earth.

No. They are held in space by periodically firing rocket boosters. When they stop doing that, they fall back to earth.

reply to post by abelievingskeptic


AMEN!

I have been called controversial, simply becuase I understand some simple scientific facts.

My attempt to explain, based on the title of this thread, was heartfelt. It goes ignored.

I am very sorry I fell, again, for a very stupid game. My intent was true, my knowledge is true, my heart is true.

This should not continue....it is nonsense.

ps....the OP seems to be of a religious persuasion....so he can certainly post his comments in a thread, in a religious forum. Would make better sense.

reply to post by weedwhacker


If you don't like the debate, don't participate.

Hey, that rhymes.

Just trying to provoke some thought.

You folks started with the putdowns..

Night night.

reply to post by Manasseh


Prove it! According to you, we've never been to space, in turn, debunking every aspect of logic in your assessment of your theory. But since you seem to be much more "blessed" with a special ability to understand that in which you claim everybody else is unable to explain:

A simple question...What is an atom?

Explain that and you will be rich!

He wont respond to anytihng anybody post, he knows hes wrong just a little kid who thinks hes funny lol

Alright i do have a question. The thrust that pushes the rocket. Well does that thrust stay in motion. Like the force of the air. It has nothign to slow it down so would it just keep going in the opsite way of the rocket?

reply to post by guyatstore


You make it hard to reply without making a one liner.

Yes.

More precisely, the gas/particles that are ejected will keep going until something stops them or causes them to change direction.

[edit on 14-8-2008 by Phage]

Originally posted by Manasseh
reply to post by EnlightenUp

 

Then those molecules would continue their journey into supposedly endless space, without any affect on the propulsion plant producing them.

Molecules without any resisting force will continue to travel away from the force that produced them without any affect on the initial molecule producing force.. How much does a molecule weigh? How many molecules must one produce to produce just one pound of thrust, when there is nothing to push against.?

Weight is a product of gravity.

It is alot of molecules. However it would take half the amount of molecules to produce the same thrust if you change their velocity relative to the craft by twice as much.

It would take one pound of a material per second accelerated by 32.2 feet per second to produce one pound of thrust. It would take one half pound of material per second accelerated by 64.4 feet per second to produce one pound of thrust as well.

Once the molecules are expelled by the rocket then the only force continuing to act upon them is whatever gravitational field happens to be present. If they're going fast enough relative to the planet, they'll probably travel off into deep space. If not, they may go into orbit or fall back into the atmosphere.

reply to post by guyatstore


Yes. That is known as the Law of Inertia, or Newton's 1st Law.

reply to post by weedwhacker


I am pretty sure this was some pathetic attempt at some type of religious banter. He obviously didn't live in a realm of logic.

You are the retired pilot right? That must mean you have some knowledge But this guy obviously could careless about what anyone with credible knowledge says.

This thread should be closed.

Even in a vacuum heated particles will expand just as cooled off particles will contract. During the expansion the particles will expand in the direction of the least resistance. When the point of least resistance is the object itself moving then you get movement.

It does not matter that the rest of the area is a vacuum. At that tiny place where the combustion is taking place it is no longer a vacuum.

Satelites don't apply because they are still in the atmosphere.

reply to post by badmedia


I think you might be mistaken about satellites. They do apply. Without repeated rocket boosts and/or a very high orbit, they will fall to earth. Even with a high orbit, all satellites will eventually fall back to earth.

reply to post by Manasseh


Gravity exist in every corner of the universe, believe it or not there is gravity in space. Also every action creates a reaction. Have you never seen James Bond throw a ranch in one direction to go the other direction. Just becasue there is a so called a vacuum doesnt mean you cant have thrust.

I am absolutely stunned that none of you guys understand jet or rocket propulsion, it is junior grade physics.

The basic idea is that you have a chamber with a high pressure inside. Imagine something like a compressed scuba diving tank, or a propane bottle, or maybe even a party balloon. This pressure might be measured in pounds per square inch, or some other suitable unit.

Now in a completely closed sealed container, this internal pressure pushes outwards equally in every direction. There is no external thrust generated (obviously) because the internal pressure pushes outwards the same in every direction.

Now suppose suddenly you cut a hole in one end of this tank.. The internal pressure still pushes in every direction EXCEPT where the hole is. So the internal foces OPPOSITE the hole push the tank in that direction.

If there is 100 psi in the tank, and a one square inch hole, there will be 100 lbs of thrust against the inside of the tank opposite where the hole is. This is 100 lbs of unbalanced forces, and it acts INSIDE the tank. It needs no external air to push against.

A jet engine works exactly the same way. It is the forces innside the engine that push the engine in a forward direction. The gasses coming out the back are just a release of pressure. Jet engines require external air for combustion. Rockets do not.

Getting back to rocket engines. A simple hole will not work very well, because all the gas pressure inside the engine will suddenly just empty out of the hole, leaving no high pressure inside the engine. There would then be nothing to push against the front of the inside of the engine.

What is done is you fit a sonic nozzle to the engine. This is a convergent, divergent cone, the classic rocket nozzle shape. This creates a sonic shock wave inside the narrowest part of the engine to keep a very high pressure buildup inside the engine. This higher internal pressure greatly increases the thrust. The shape of this nozzle is critical to getting optimum thrust. But that thrust comes from the high pressure inside the combustion chamber, not from the exhaust "pushing" against anything.

Hope that helps..




This is all pretty basic stuff. Surprised you guys have never heard it all before.