If there is no air in space, how do they use rockets to position the space shuttle?

Newtons law works for a rocket only in air.

The action is the gasses escaping through the nozzle.

The reaction is the pressure of the air stacking up the molecules
trying to escape, moving the force towards the front of the rocket.

In space, this is impossible.

Originally posted by Manasseh
Newtons law works for a rocket only in air.

The action is the gasses escaping through the nozzle.

The reaction is the pressure of the air stacking up the molecules
trying to escape, moving the force towards the front of the rocket.

In space, this is impossible.

You are wrong. This wrongness of yours has been pointed out by numerous people. You now have become a boring wrong person hell-bent on proving your ignorance. Ignorance being defined as one who is wrong and incapable of being corrected due to some abnormality in the being that rejects fact and/or truth.

I feel bad for you, but now that feeling has passed...it was fairly transient. A lot like a jet evacuating from a nozzle - extremely transient but capable of imparting force - even in a vacuum. In this case, or I should say in YOUR case, an intellectual vacuum that has created a repulsive force away from your intellectual vacuum. Basically, we don't want to be there anymore.


[edit on 8-17-2008 by Valhall]

reply to post by Valhall


I believe enough different and good explanations have been provided that if he bothered studying our responses he now knows the truth that he was wrong, but for some reason is unwilling or unable to admit it because of some type of psychosis and he is afraid or overwhelmed.

Why else would he post the same argument on page 1 as page 13? You can only post the same inept response so many times before nobody even cares to listen anymore.

At first I thought I was dealing with a borderline autistic intelligent 12 year old or some teenager with limited social interaction with his peers in his pre-adolescent years. He's obviously not stupid, but has some serious hurdles to overcome. I think he gets it, but don't expect him to ever admit it here.


[edit on 17-8-2008 by verylowfrequency]

I think other posters may have a point to which I think it is good to add my 0.02.

It is no big deal if you're wrong. You learn something new and move on to further enlightenment. The world as you understood it changed and your knowledge is increased. God hasn't changed. You shouldn't allow pride to stunt your growth and understanding of Him and his creation.

Click here for more information.


READ THIS POST!

[edit on 17-8-2008 by Gemwolf]

I can't believe this thread is still alive.

Don't you think they already tested this already? I know there have been astronauts that have demonstrated to the little 2nd graders watching from their science classes Newton's Third Law Of Motion is true.

If you are in a spacesuit in space, and you throw a ball, you will fly backwards because of force from the ball flying away from your glove.

YouTube Video About Astronauts And Newton's Third Law

Every action has an equal and opposite reaction.

You know, I know someone who used to work at NASA, and if you even mentioned your idea to him, not only would he laugh at you and think that you were strange, he would never talk to you again.

It's nice to believe in God, but your stubborness really is an embarrassment to all believers.

You are becoming the poster child for Atheism.

[SNIP]

When an explosion happens, what is the first thing you feel??

The pressure wave. That is caused by the force of the expansion moving the considerable pressure surrounding the explosive device.

That is the reaction, to the action of the explosion.

Show me on rocket thrust calculation that doesn't take atmospheric pressure into consideration, and I will show you a flawed formula.

[edit on 17-8-2008 by Manasseh]

Mod edit: Removed off-topic insults/baiting.
READ THIS POST

[edit on 17-8-2008 by Gemwolf]

To me, it's just like these experts telling about sounds in space.

UMM, sound travels using the air pressure.

If there is no air in space, how are they recording sounds.

It's all a big conspiracy to keep the masses in the dark about the heavens that God controls.

The crackle and pop of lightning deep in the planet's atmosphere
Saturn Kilometric Radiation Cassini Observes Saturn Kilometric Radiation
The eerie sounds and bizarre features of Saturn's radio emissions
Voyager termination shock Voyager Termination Shock
Plasma wave sounds at the solar wind termination shock
Saturn bow shock Cassini Encounters Saturn's Bow Shock
Where the solar wind collides with Saturn's magnetic field
Saturn rotation Radio Rotation of Saturn from Cassini RPWS Measurements
The puzzling change in Saturn's radio rotation period
favorite sounds Selected Sounds of Space
A sampling of Don Gurnett's favorite sounds of space

www-pw.physics.uiowa.edu...

First grade physics will tell you sound can't travel in space, but here we have "physics proffessor" telling you about the sounds Cassini is recording in space.

They are pumping you full of dis-info.

And before someone says, well they are picking up radio waves.

Two things.

They are listening to lightning crack and pop. That is sound waves.

Second, how do radio wave (electric in nature) travel through a vacuum when there is nothing to conduct the electromagnetic wave?

[edit on 17-8-2008 by Manasseh]

Originally posted by Manasseh

Two things.

They are listening to lightning crack and pop. That is sound waves.

Second, how do radio wave (electric in nature) travel through a vacuum when there is nothing to conduct the electromagnetic wave?

[edit on 17-8-2008 by Manasseh]

Two Things:


Lightning is Electricity, an electric discharge, as you would say: "Electric in nature".

Note that they said that they were listening to the crackle and pop Of The Lightning, not of Thunder.


Thunder is the product of sound waves.



Both electricity and radio waves are part of the Electromagnetic Wave Spectrum

What the scientists were listening to were the radio signals generated by the lightning.



Second: electricity, radio waves and visible light are all a part of the same Electromagnetic Wave Spectrum

The light you see from a glowing incandescent lamp is the result of a wire filiment glowing white hot because of the electrical current flowing through it.

The filiment will continue to glow as long as electricity flows through it and as long as it does not burn out; which occurs very rapidly if the bulb is broken; thus breaking the vacuum contained within the bulb.

When the bulb is broken, or if it leaks, air gets into the bulb, and that air allows the hot filiment to burn out.



Since the light from the glowing filiment of the light bulb has no difficulty reaching your eyes through the vacuum contained in the bulb, and since light, and radio waves are part of the same electromagnetic wave spectrum, do you now understand that radio waves do not need air for conduction?

[edit on 17-8-2008 by Bhadhidar]

[edit on 17-8-2008 by Bhadhidar]

I wonder if he'll be able to comprehend what you just told him?

Remedial version:
If light can travel through space, radio waves can travel through space. They are both electromagnetic energy.

Now I guess we'll hear about how he thinks light can't either and there are no stars and there is just a huge black canopy with white dots on it at night and big Apollo dude in a firey chariot racing across the sky during the day. Next we'll get to move to the flat earth theory and a geocentric universe. We may be back to Kepler by this time next year.

If we're lucky.

[edit on 8-17-2008 by Valhall]

reply to post by Valhall



So why doesn't that fiery chariot catch the canopy on fire?



You wanna talk about a flat Earth?

If some of the physics I've read about is true Time itself is a merely a convenient fiction of the inferior human mind; it does not actually exist as a discrete, discernable quantity.

(Warning: Some may want to cover their ears and start humming their own personal "Happy Song" at this point!)


If Time doesn't really exist, then Space (as in "distance") cannot exist either.

Instead of a "flat" Earth, we're actually a conceptualized singularity!

reply to post by Valhall


Val, you guys are doing a fine job of attempting to educate....

Maybe the problem is.....some people just need a very personal, one-on-one description, and education.

It's like....I couldn't have ever taught anyone to fly, unless I WAS THERE, personally, to teach.

This is what is considered as difference between 'Ground School' and what's know as 'Practical' training.

You can teach a person much better, if you can discuss the topic face-to-face. Teaching in a Forum such as this, is much more difficult.

THEN, in the 'Practical' portion....you actually use the skills learned from the 'Ground School'....and this re-inforces the lesson.

OK....hope this helps.....

Picture yourself in space holding a baseball. You throw the baseball away from you. You will apply force to the ball it will fly off, and according to newton, you will feel the same force and move off in the other direction.

Think of the ball as a molecule of gas being ejected from the spaceship.
Now picture billions of them.

Same concept.

Read up on conservation of momentum.

reply to post by Anonymous ATS


Anon....THIS is what we have....many of us...been trying ot explain, to the OP.

I'll expand on your 'spacesuit' example, to hopefully make it better.

IF you, in our 'spacesuit'...let's call it an EVA suit, since it's more appropriate.....NOW, if you in the EVA suit....you managed to bring a heavy rock, or any other weight out with you....NOW, there you are!

OK....YOU, and everything that is on or part of you, has MASS. Every Mass has a C/G...a Center of Gravity.

You take that 'rock', and 'throw' it.....well, it has MASS....and the act of 'thowing' it means it imparts a momentum on you, as you toss it away.

Your C/G is close to our middle....but your arm is extended, as you toss the rock.....so that is known as a 'moment' in physics.

Back to Newton....the 'throwing' of the rock results in an equal and opposite reaction.....

NOW....here's the part to understand....the rock, thrown from the Astronaut's hand, was not near his C/G....so, this will result in a spinning motion, of the Astronaut.

(Remember Newton?)

NOW....if this Astronaut wishes to throw rocks, he/she does so at their risk.....because of what I just described.

IF you are standing on the surface of an alien planet.....in your EVA suit....then that emans there is a gravity, of some sort....

If you are floating in space, in your EVA suit....then it is different!!!

IF you can't figure out the difference, then go back to school!!!

This might've already been suggested, but here goes anyway:

How about we all just agree with Manasseh that there must be some sort of conspiracy being conducted by NASA and every other space program. Maybe we can all then agree to work together and get to the bottom of the truth?

Maybe that'll enable this thread to fizzle and die.

reply to post by Fuggle


Fuggle....that would mean, we start a NEW thread!!

So, now it's up to YOU!!!

Good Luck!!!

oh dude. That comment about how electromagnetic waves can't travel through a vacuum was so far off base and ignorant that you have just completely discredited your position of having supposed knowledge.

Reminds me of this crazy surfer I used to see down at the beach. he would sit in the water and tell everybody he was this highly esteemed profesor and that when you are surfing you are time traveking. he claimed that since you arre travelling forward on a wave surfing but can travel up the wave-backwards in motion according to him you are travelling back in time. you are displaying the same sort of logic and pathological thinking.

Originally posted by Manasseh

It's all a big conspiracy to keep the masses in the dark about the heavens that God controls.

God may control the heavens, but he has given us the ability to begin to explore them.

So tell me how does god control the Heavens that you know about that is being kept from us?

God showed us that we can float (metaphor) on the air like birds and 105 years ago we took to the sky.

God has given us the ability to understand what lies beyond our atmosphere and we learned to orbit the earth, send men to the moon, spacecraft and robots to other planets. If god did not want us to do that we'd still be staring at the sky like the apes unable to see what lies beyond our naked vision.

Every technology we learn and every new understanding was built into us by God. We are biological learning machines and everyday we have the ability to see or do what no man has ever done before.

God has given you the ability to come along for the ride and we all welcome you.

Take a ride in an airplane if you haven't yet and look at the earth and know that for thousands of years no man could ever do that - you are lucky to know such things - thank God for our understanding that makes it so.

Take a trip to Kennedy Space Center tour the facilities and look at the Saturn 5 rocket that sent the men to the moon and watch a live rocket launch, or a Space Shuttle Launch before they quit flying them.

Or come up with 200k and take a ride on Virgin Galactic and look at mother earth from orbit yourself.

It is all real my friend and you can taste any of it you want to because God made it available to you. You just have to go out an experience and learn what you want. It's all there for most of us that are able to post on the internet anyway.

Here is a better example of Newton's Law.

Stand on a skateboard facing forward. Take a baseball and throw it with all your might directly in front of you. What happens? You move backwards. The ball pushed you as you threw the ball. Thats why you moved backwards. Nothing else. Same applies in space. Throw a ball in zero G, you will move backwards, the ball will move forwards.

I think they really should start teaching science classes in school again.

reply to post by verylowfrequency


Star for you, VLF!

I know that I comprehend how space travel works....it's not (yet) as you see it portrayed on TV or in films.

Remembering my first visit to the KSC museum.....absolutely stunned, I was. As VLF mentioned, there is a real Saturn V there, on its side. It was built because there were supposed to be three more missions, after Apollo 17....but Vietnam kinda got in the way.....budgets were cut, and so on.

So, this thing was built, but never flew....hence the museum.

Same with the NASM here in DC.....there is a LM here, on display.

Never flew, but was built.

In case you're wondering....what you see are not the COMPLETE spacecraft, of course. Just as when you see a car or an airplane in a museum, the oil and fuel are removed....sometimes the engines too....depends.