If there is no air in space, how do they use rockets to position the space shuttle?

reply to post by Manasseh


Manasseh, lift is created by the MOTION through the air. Bernouuli's Principle.

Continued forward motion through the air will be imparted through various forms of energy....THRUST is one way, GRAVITY is another. Either way, lift is produced. IF there is no thrust, then Gravity is used, at the expense of using some of your 'potential energy' (altitude) in exhange.

I mentioned the APU only because I was pointing out how useless a regular jet airplane would be, out of its environment...such as in a vacuum.

NOW, here's where it gets real interesting....the Shuttle uses an Auxilary Power Unit....three, I believe....but while APU is the same acronym, they are very, very different from an jet's APU.

Your typical Boeing has an APU, it uses the Jet fuel and air, to procuce power to run the Electrics and Pneumatics.

The Shuttle's APUs typically provide Electrics....no need for Pneumatics.

AND, the Shuttle's APUs....they operate differently than an airplane's. BUT, they use some combination of chemicals, that when properly combined, provide electricity. Please don't ask me to name the chemicals, it's not my field of expertise....it's the basic concept that I understand.

Think of them as really powerful batteries, if that helps......

Ok so my snarcky comments aside.

Movement in space has nothing to do with god.

It has everything to do with science, The three laws of motion can explain this perfectly.

Link1

I found this on wikipedia which explains a lot about rocket propulsion.

Link2

This also explains a lot.

Since I am not a rocket scientist I dont have any personal input. Im 100% positive that God shouldnt be attributed to space flight though.

[edit on 15-8-2008 by caballero]

Originally posted by weedwhacker
reply to post by Manasseh

 

Manasseh, lift is created by the MOTION through the air. Bernouuli's Principle.

Continued forward motion through the air will be imparted through various forms of energy....THRUST is one way, GRAVITY is another. Either way, lift is produced. IF there is no thrust, then Gravity is used, at the expense of using some of your 'potential energy' (altitude) in exhange.

I mentioned the APU only because I was pointing out how useless a regular jet airplane would be, out of its environment...such as in a vacuum.

NOW, here's where it gets real interesting....the Shuttle uses an Auxilary Power Unit....three, I believe....but while APU is the same acronym, they are very, very different from an jet's APU.

Your typical Boeing has an APU, it uses the Jet fuel and air, to procuce power to run the Electrics and Pneumatics.

The Shuttle's APUs typically provide Electrics....no need for Pneumatics.

AND, the Shuttle's APUs....they operate differently than an airplane's. BUT, they use some combination of chemicals, that when properly combined, provide electricity. Please don't ask me to name the chemicals, it's not my field of expertise....it's the basic concept that I understand.

Think of them as really powerful batteries, if that helps......

Okay, so for the most part, with what Man is asking about, we have no lift in orbit. So let's center on thrust and keep it more focused toward that point. I think this issue has been demonstrated in numerous ways to Man on how efflux creates a force. So if he's still having a problem grasping this fundamental concept, he should most likely enroll in a fairly low-level physical science class to get the Newtonian concepts down.

The APU's - they are more than electrical generators. They are the power units for re-entry. They are powered on hydrazine...a fairly nasty fuel. The retro burn manueuver depends on the APU's and this is integral to the beginning of descent/entry.

[edit on 8-15-2008 by Valhall]

reply to post by Valhall


Val....hydrazine!!!

That's what I was trying to remember!

Isn't that part of the reason why after the Shuttle lands, there is a complete checklist to secure the vehicle, and ensure that no hazardous emissons exist, before the crew is allowed to egress?

I know a lot goes on, and the crew onboard are following checklists as well, shutting down systems, etc...

They attempt to calculate to where all (or at least as close to all) hydrazine is used up. Also, since it is so toxic for humans, no attitude control occurs when an EVA takes place on orbit - so that hydrazine doesn't spew out while a crew member is out around the vehicle.

reply to post by Valhall


Wait....Val.....

Even an EVA Astronaut would be vulnerable to hydrazine????

Stunning news. Would it somehow be corrosive to the suit's materials?

Of course, during an EVA, I'd hate to have my spacecraft start to move....and be stuck on the end of my tether, hoping it doesn't break!!!

Originally posted by weedwhacker

Even an EVA Astronaut would be vulnerable to hydrazine????

Stunning news. Would it somehow be corrosive to the suit's materials?

Of course, during an EVA, I'd hate to have my spacecraft start to move....and be stuck on the end of my tether, hoping it doesn't break!!!

Not sure what the effect to the suit would be, but the point is to make sure the suit doesn't become contaminated so that when the astronaut returns to the orbiter he doesn't have it on him. It is corrosive to human skin and can cause burns.

As far as a burn while I'm on EVA - I'm with you! It would be a real trip to have your vehicle correct attitude while you're connected with a life line. hahaha

reply to post by Manasseh


Time to log out. I will be driving to see some friends using my new GPS. I guess the network of satellites that does not exist and did not reach a stable orbit using a gas propellant will still manage, somehow, to guide my way until I reach my destination.. Bye!

-rrr

reply to post by Valhall


VAL....Oh, yeah! Excellent point about bringing the suit back into the crew compartment, with hydrazine residue....makes good sense.

AND, I think you got my point....a tether breaks, and there's no MMU....you're dead.....unless the Secret Astronaut Corps can come to save you?

READ THIS POST

[edit on 16-8-2008 by Gemwolf]

I find it hard to believe someone actually said this.

Originally posted by Manasseh
reply to post by mother_jung

 

Now that was funny.

Since I am 225ish lbs, that WOULD be a funny site.

Jesus is your grocery clerk, and your judge.

But you laugh it up, sucker, since them testicles would be on your chin.

By the way, since 20,000 people have seen this, they will have no excuses either.

Manassehaahaa



[edit on 15-8-2008 by Manasseh]

Why would your testicles be on my chin?

[edit on 16-8-2008 by sanctum]

Actually, the explanation is very easy: thrust is produced as a reaction to the firing.

In space, if you push an object, both you and the object will be pushed away.

particals are energy. Energy is everything. Light is energy. there is light everywhere around our planet. If you want soemthing for it to push against, it can be light. It can be gravitational force as well, force is energy. All of this makes up god, all energy together. The only rules are the limitations on the observer. Which is why scientists, and not priests, made rocket ships. And also why priests and not scientists preform exorcism. Do not try and limit gods work, you will be prooven wrong.

reply to post by Manasseh


I've read this entire post. Rockets work in space by occult power. Is that the answer you are waiting for. Because this thread appears to be milking it slightly. Why don't you just tell them the answer.

Ufos run on the power of thought and occultic knowledge.

The space rockets were in part designed by black occultist Jack Parsons and he even had a 5 pointed star recessed into the centre to "assist burning".

www.theforbiddenknowledge.com...
en.wikipedia.org...
www.reason.com...

Yes , space travel was inspired by dark occultism.

Ugh, what a tedious read. Stop playing with the readership.

Oh yeah, Newton's laws? bunk. Everything is thought powered. Non-spiritual people are often accused of having a "Newtonian world-view", in a derogatory sense. Newton was well in the know about the reality of the world, some people think he was just a secret society stooge etc.

Best Wishes

Edit to add... You might enjoy these clips...

www.youtube.com...
www.youtube.com...


[edit on 16-8-2008 by TrueLight]

Have you ever fired a 357 magnum or fired a m-16/m-60? Same basic principle. Place the gun in mid air and remote fire the trigger and both gun and bullet move in the oppisite direction. In space the same would happen only they wouldn't stop moving so only require small amounts of thrust and not a constant stream like it does to leave the earths atmosphere.

You don't need a non stop supply of fuel in space like you do on earth. I'm not even going to get into the chemical reactions etc. required to obtain the chemical reaction just thought I would give the red neck answer. "Guns!"

reply to post by TrueLight


TL...clips about NASA and 'Project Paperclip' prove nothing....just muddying the waters.

YES! Post WWII both the USA and the USSR snagged every former Nazi scientist they could!

So, it seems the USA got the better ones, compared to the Soviets. So what?

YES! Post WWII, could you imagine the public outcry if it were revealed that former Nazis were now in the employ of the US Government??? With the Nuremberg Trials ongoing????

So....using the expertise and knowledge of scientists who were forced to join the Nazi party, or be killed, is somehow wrong??

When you wish to defend your Nation...after a bloody World War, against a blossoming possible enemy????

Please look at the politics of the time, Post WWII....and see the way the Cold War started.

Now....it became a race of propaganda (while all the while, the threat of Nuclear Annihilation was mentioned constantly).

There were no 'occultists' or 'dark' artists involved in this....it is about the science!!!

AND, there is no 'god' angle to it either. Humans did this, achieved this.

reply to post by TrueLight


One thing occultists know is that the world is about law and is not haphazard.

The law originating in mind neither adds unnecessary complication (occam's razor lives) nor invalidates any observed law. Occultists just use higher law against lower law but the law exists nonetheless. What appears as magic is simply law at work.

Newton's realization about gravity and motion of the planets was merely applying the correspondence principle in order to unveil truth.

As it is, "occult" does not imply evil or dark but simply "hidden from view". It is possible to work from light or dark for good or ill.

For all intents and purposes, space is a vacuum i.e. There is nothing there, no atoms, no nothing. If the space shuttle had propellers on it's wings, it would not go forward. Rockets on the other hand work differently. Imagine if you will...

I am a human-like robot. I have a small ship (like the size of a mini-cooper). My ship and I are floating out in space. There are two handles on the back of my ship. I am "standing" between the handles, scrunched up in a ball with my knees to my chest, holding the handles so I don't float away from my spaceship. Now, if I let go of the handles and quickly straighten my legs "downward" towards my ship, what is going to happen? The ship and I will accelerate away from each other for a moment while my feet are pushing against it and then we will continue to float away from each other at whatever speed was achieved by my push. No air needed. In this example, I am acting as the rocket. This is fundamentally how rockets work, except with a controlled, continuous explosion rather than my legs and feet.

I can't believe I bought into this nonsense, but I aspire to be a teacher someday and wanted to see if my approach made the concept easier to grasp...

Your talking about the expansion of a gas. The gas is on pushing when there is something to hold it back, like the sides of a tank.

When the gas escape on earth, it hits the density of the atmosphere, which is considerable.

There is no pushing away from each other in space, because there is nothing to push against on the opposite side. The gas would simply escape into nothingness.

The Newton theory is flawed, especially in space.

Think about a rocketcar on the salt flats. The car moves because the expansion of gas can't escape from the nozzle because the air pressure is holding it back from escaping as fast as it wants to, therefore putting pressure towards the front of the rocket.

If there were no air pressure to push against, the rocket car would not move.