We helped in Iraq - now help us, beg Georgians

reply to post by crisko


This is my take on the situation. Georgia is nothing but a pawn in the middle of a power play between Russia and the US. The Russian and US nationalists on this forum keep pointing fingers at the other side blaming, Russia, Georgia and the US of causing this conflict. All parties are equally to blame.

After the fall of the Soviet Union, the CIA machinations began in several former Soviet republics. Increasingly, over the years Georgia has been sympathetic to US interests which Russia views as provocative.

Russia has likely fomenting unrest in the Georgian breakaway republics. Using Russian troops as "peacekeepers" is just a cover for the overthrow of the pro-US government and installation of a pro-Russian regime.

Atrocities are being committed by the Russian "peacekeepers" and the Georgian army. All sides in this conflict (including the US), are equally complicit.

The reports of US mobilization may be true. It is possible that there will be a paradrop of US forces into the middle of the country under the guise of US "peacekeeping" troops to secure ground. It would be foolish of Russia to fire on the troops once deployed.

The other pro-western former republics are in a tight spot. If they allow Russia to seize Georgia, then they could be next. This could get ugly faster than most people realize.

Russia made a big poker play and the US will likely respond. Hopefully, without war being escalated. I see a parallel to the Berlin airlift. We were very close to WWIII back then as well. . . .

Double post



[edit on 11-8-2008 by clay2 baraka]

The reason the U.S. isn't helping is simple: It can't.

We don't have the troops to do it.

Another reason it's suicide. Even if we could gather together some troops to send we are talking about going against Mother Russia. They havn't been in a war for almost 20 years: their troops and equipment are fresh and ready. PLUS this is a war in their backyard. Any attempt the U.S. would make at moving in tanks/troops would be swiftly confronted with overwhelming force.

If the US wasn't already involved in two wars, maybe. But as the US has been crippled by Bush's "War on Terror", we are left with no choice but to sit back and watch the world happen.


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Georgia started this by shelling a city and killing about 1,500 people,and you lot see russia as the bad guys?

Jeez,the media are doing a grand job at spinning this around to favour Georgia.Russia are hitting military targets hard and are pushing them back so they cant fire their shells into that area again.Just pushing them out of the city was not enough,they have to drive them back so there out of range

Hitting the airports,blocking the sea route is another way to strangle the real bad guys here from getting supplies.

we are getting BS from the media,their president talks of freedom infront of a euro flag and claims Russia is trying to kill them all.

If Russia realy did want to steam roll that country then it would bring down its hammer hard with the full force of its army,not the small numbers they are using now

Congrats on the media for feeding the sheep,its disgusting that they are allowed to be so biased and are pushing out stories without checking them in the slightest

Very convenient that the city gori is now filled with russian tanks and ground troops when No media are there to check out the claims.Well reuters were and said the city is empty!Why did the media leave?They were there and left,were they told to leave?I would have thought they would have stayed there to get the footage of russian tanks steaming over the tarmac

I could be wrong but I get the feeling that Russia is playing this for the long run and are only targeting Georgian armour,there not mass bombing cities like the so called good guys where who started all this!The only footage i Have seen where Civies were hit was when that apartment block was hit by secondry fire resulting from near by tanks being taken out on the road infront of them

reply to post by harrytuttle

I agree that the US doesn't have the troops. Is Russia willing to risk nuclear war to gain influence over Georgia? That is the question I guarantee is going through the minds of the US leadership right now. The question is, will the US call Russia's bluff?

This is MUCH bigger than Georgia and even the US helping an ally. . If the US does not act, it loses; Poland, Hungary, The Ukraine and any other pro-western country near Russia. Russia will not even need to invade them to conquer them. . .

This is big.

reply to post by TKainZero


so, what you suggest is that we just march right into the powder keg known as the caucusus, and basically go to all out war with Russia????

sounds really friggen smart on our part doesn't it? let's piss of one of the only other countries in the world that can match our nuclear aresenal.

seriously, just because they helped us in Iraq, does not obligate to thrust ourselves into what could very well turn out to be the beginning of world war 3, if we get involved it won't do anything but make this a bloodier conflict than it is. i say it's their war, let them fight it. it's not my fault they didn't realize that Russia was going to come to aid of S. Ossetia.

they didn't plan it out right, and just like all of our other allies do (see Israel.) they invade their neighbors and when they realize that they are under our protection for a reason, they beg us to finish the job for them. i say screw that, i cannot stand behind going to war because another countrie's leader is a retard.

Originally posted by clay2 baraka
reply to post by harrytuttle

 

I agree that the US doesn't have the troops. Is Russia willing to risk nuclear war to gain influence over Georgia? That is the question I guarantee is going through the minds of the US leadership right now. The question is, will the US call Russia's bluff?

No it won't. There is no question. And all of that is pretty academic because agitating the American public to enter a major war is beyond the capability of this and the next administration.

If the US does not act, it loses; Poland, Hungary, The Ukraine and any other pro-western country near Russia.

Oh please, Russia does not really have a beef with Poland or Hungary.

Originally posted by noangels
Georgia started this by shelling a city and killing about 1,500 people,and you lot see russia as the bad guys?

As you can see the topics talking about Georgia wanting / needing help have people that sympathize more with Georgia than with Russia.

Other threads featuring Georgan being bad guys have posters that are the opposite.

[edit on 11/8/08 by -0mega-]

reply to post by buddhasystem
Russia has "a beef" with any formerly allied country who is thinking about forming a defense pact with NATO or participating in a missile shield.

With the events unfolding we are looking at several possibilities:

1. A formal return to the cold war (Yes, we have been engaging in a cold war with Russia since Putin took power).

2. The definite end to the "American empire."

3. Worst case. . . . WWIII.

Those of you naive or uninformed enough to tow the official Russian and American lines. . . Sorry, there is no "peacekeeping" mission the US and Russia have both been using Georgia for some time for their own purposes.

This whole situation has been set up from the beginning. All sources of information about the conflict, on both sides, are suspect. There are very likely no "good guys" to be found. Just external governments vying for power and influence.

In real life, things are never simple...


You never have a relationship start or end at the right time...
The Microwave and oven always overcook things...
Organic-Chemstry is just hard...

Nothing is simple...

Look at the start of the American Revolutionary war... There is no record of who fired the first shot... Both sides say the other did... and if we had blogs then, i doubt we would be ANY closer to the truth...

Here, in this situation, is not simple either...

South Ossetia, and Akhbazia are NOT REAL countries.... they just arent, they are not recognized by the world... BOTh areas ARE Georgian Territory... Russia, dosen't like this, so they gave out passports to the people in these areas...

I think some people are HUGELY misinformed, both SOuth Ossetia, and Abkhazia are REBELIOUS regions, and what i mean by that, is that they ROSE UP and overthrew the legitimate goverment, BY FORCE... Both Territories Knew that they should expect a response from Georgia, and they waited since the ealy '90s for it...

This past weekend, Georgia moved on South Ossetia. pretty much identifying the entire regions population as Enemy Combatants, as they are the REBELS... So Georgia started to Shell thier own city...

And at THAT point, Russia started to invade Georgia. To, "protect Russian Passport holders".

As much as Russia may think that they are intitaled to South Ossetia, and Akhbaiza, THEY ARENT...

Russia started WAR on Georgia... Georgia didnt start the war with Russia...

Georgia was running a military operation, in their OWN terroritory, and Russia invaded once the Georgians started thier attack on South Ossetia...

This is a Crazy news story... Thats a fact...

Originally posted by TKainZero
South Ossetia, and Akhbazia are NOT REAL countries.... they just arent, they are not recognized by the world... BOTh areas ARE Georgian Territory... Russia, dosen't like this, so they gave out passports to the people in these areas...

I've been to both Abkhazia and South Ossetia and they sure looked and felt like real countries.

By the way, what's your take on Kosovo? Sure this one is a chunk of Serbian territory and not a real country?

Originally posted by TKainZero
South Ossetia, and Akhbazia are NOT REAL countries.... they just arent, they are not recognized by the world... BOTh areas ARE Georgian Territory... Russia, dosen't like this, so they gave out passports to the people in these areas...

Nor was Kosovo.

TKainZero, you are the same age as me (22). You're pretty smart too. Remember the statement Russia made on the eve of Kosovo independence? "Russia will take appropriate action" and "Kosovo independence opens Pandora's box."

We are seeing the consequences unfolding before our eyes.

This is not just isolated to Georgia, Moldova and Azerbaijan are in the same situation with break away provinces - Ukraine too. This war, the next conflicts - that will definitely follow - will link back to Kosovo.

The Soviet Union, my friend, was the Austria-Hungarian Empire of our day. Its break up has led to ethnic conflicts in hostile areas, with a political tug of war which will lead to the next global war.

The government knows " the people are pawns ", who believe any Bull**it they are fed. They are expendable for the cause, which is decided behind closed doors. Have we any power over our own future? well clearly NO, it is decided what we think, feel and believe. When they can orchestrate such dramas as assassinations, wars etc and then tell us what we should believe. They are willing to sacrifice large numbers of citizens to achieve a goal and we are supposed to go with the flow, well some of us are not prepared to fall in line with it! If you think that you have freedom and liberty, you are wrong, the government has it within their power to withdraw such fundemental liberties, whenever they decide to do it. I feel sorry for all of the wide eyed Americans who believe that they are FREE, they will pay for someone elses cause. The presedent of America is a finger puppet, who exactly has thier finger inside of him is a matter for debate. He seems not to care either way, as long as he can make a quick buck out of it, for him and his own bunch of idiots. What good is money when your ass is in danger, he will just walk with the wad and smile.

Well things are defenitly gonna get worse. This just in Georgian President said "We will never surrender" sigh I wanted to go on vacation soon too

America cant do anything...they are right outside russia's backdoor...that just suicide...even under the disguise of *peacekeepers*... Russia has the EU gas supply and even if we decided to defend georgia...we also wouldnt stand a chance...strategically and politically,no one can do a thing...have to wait this out and see what happen i think...

[edit on 11-8-2008 by Lethil]

I have no idea why the Georgian leadership would do such an incredibly boneheaded thing as to go up against Russia, of all nations. They're living right next door to the Russian Bear, for goodness sake.

What possessed them to shoot down those two Russian planes and bomb an city, killing thousands?

I don't care if Russia swallows up Georgia, if Georgians are insane enough to hold up a candle to George War Bush and his policies, then, well, maybe they need some reality medicine to set them straight.

I'm with the Russians on this one, they had to help their bros in the south.

High time Georgians wised up to the actual value of friendship with the West.

Originally posted by star in a jar
I have no idea why the Georgian leadership would do such an incredibly boneheaded thing as to go up against Russia, of all nations. They're living right next door to the Russian Bear, for goodness sake.

What possessed them to shoot down those two Russian planes and bomb an city, killing thousands?

I don't care if Russia swallows up Georgia, if Georgians are insane enough to hold up a candle to George War Bush and his policies, then, well, maybe they need some reality medicine to set them straight.

I'm with the Russians on this one, they had to help their bros in the south.

High time Georgians wised up to the actual value of friendship with the West.

Georgia is way above their head...they are being used,this scenario is much much bigger than we think..or they think.....i think

Originally posted by infinite

Within a couple of days, Georgia will be in ruins

Agreed, unfortunately. Unless Putin decides to dawdle, there's no way anyone's gonna be able to mobilize fast enough to mount an effective defense. Russia should have Georgia buttoned up in a few days, horror and all.

So, what next? (A question EVERYone should be asking themselves) Does Putin turn his troops around, or does he keep going like Hitler did after Poland? Where does the world decide to make a stand?

At this point I wouldn't expect direct American involvement. But if I were top brass I'd certainly be directing resources into the region, both as a signal to the Russians, and insurance "just in case".

Georgia got themselves into it by messing with the beast (the russians)

They are a large, dominant country and frankly I hope the US doesn't interferre with anything russia disagrees with us on...That can only end with nukes and millions if not billions dying. Sorry Georgia but diplomacy is the only way to end this nonsense. I am ashamed of the two countries...It's an eerie time we live in...crazy stories everyday but this takes the cake. It's practically another war going on and frankly, it's an unfair one. Russia is too big and powerful to be bombing this country back...Its getting to the level of what we did to Iraq after we bombed them. It's just unfair. Too many innoncent people have already died. I was expecting Russia to stop but they haven't yet- that is something absolutely insane. You would think a world leader would come to his senses but it just seems worse. This is horrible horrific news. I'm hoping it ends soon...Enough with these wars already...Just get rid of every world leader and that solves the problem. The people must represent themselves- these people are killing their citizens. It's war profiteering. War= Money.