Dr. Ivins: Anthrax suspect..... Scapegoat?

Lets take a moment to remember 2001, we woke up on September 11th to the most horrific thing many of us had ever seen. We watched two of our nation's landmarks collapse, and the country mourned those who were lost in the attacks. Soon there after the anthrax attacks began and were quickly labeled as terrorist attacks as well. We were to believe that both the attacks on the WTC, and the anthrax attacks were perpetrated by Muslim extremists that wanted nothing more than to see the fall of the new Rome.

As the years went by a quite a few people began to question the nature of the WTC attacks. It has certainly been a hot topic on ATS, and has also been hottly debated on many occasions. There are many that believe that the US government was an integral part of the attacks, and that they were staged to strip us of our freedoms, and to give further control to the government. Whether they staged the attacks, or were just acting like downs syndrome kids that can't figure out what to do that day, no one knows for sure, but no matter what the case may be it stinks. That much we can all agree on. Whether purposefully or due to stupidity, the government allowed these attacks to happen.

Years after both the anthrax and the WTC attacks, the government has failed repeatedly to bring us the head of the supposed mastermind of the WTC attacks, but they have managed to dig up this guy, Dr. Bruce Ivins.

One of the nation's top biodefense researchers has apparently taken his own life, just as the FBI zeroed in on him as a suspect in the deadly 2001 anthrax attacks.

Supposedly acting on his own Dr. Ivins who was the only one that had access to the vile of anthrax that was used in the attacks. Anyone who needed access to the anthrax had to have it approved by Dr. Ivins first.

For those of you that don't know Dr. Ivins worked for the U.S. Army Medical Research Institute of Infectious Diseases, and in 2005 4 years after the attacks, and at the point when the Feds were starting to suspect Dr. Ivins, he received the Pentagon's highest civilian award for his efforts in creating a viable anthrax vaccine. Funny that while the Feds are zeroing in on Ivins, that the government would awarding him for his anthrax efforts. That in and of itself is a little odd IMO.

USAMRIID, an organization of the U.S. Army Medical Research and Materiel Command, is the lead medical research laboratory for the U.S. Biological Defense Research Program. The Institute plays a key role as the only laboratory in the Department of Defense (DoD) equipped to safely study highly hazardous infectious agents requiring maximum containment at biosafety level (BSL)-4.

As the center of excellence for DoD medical biological defense research, USAMRIID’s challenge is to maintain its world-class scientific and technology base while being responsive to its primary customer—the warfighter.

Then comes the issue of Ivins mental health.

Army scientist Bruce Ivins had a history of paranoia, obsession and delusional thinking. And newly unsealed court documents show he didn't keep them to himself.

So this guy despite being overtly "crazy" was allowed to work with highly infectious diseases in one of the most secure laboratories in the US. Even though there is extensive psychological screening, and anyone that shows even the slightest instability is removed from the facility Dr. Ivins remained. Even those who worked at the lab had no idea why he would have been kept there if his insanity was so clear and apparent. This is a little fishy by itself.

Looking to hear some answers from Dr. Ivins, well, you can't. He died, of an apparent drug induced suicide shortly before he was arrested. Again, a little convenient isn't it?

Here is another oddity: A statement from USAMRIID after the anthrax suspect's death.

The USAMRIID family mourns the loss of Dr. Bruce Ivins, who served the Institute for more than 35 years as a civilian microbiologist," read the official statement from Fort Detrick.

An interesting way to view the supposed mastermind of the vicious anthrax mail attacks.

I personally don't buy that an insane person was easily allowed to do as he pleased with components that could be used in biological warfare. It just doesn't make any damn sense. Yes people get complacent in their jobs and are quick to label those who might be unstable as quirky or eccentric, and may ignore the problem, but this is just bizarre IMO. Especially considering, the lab's employees were monitored through the Personnel Reliability Program.

The PRP program evaluates many aspects of the individual's work life and home life. Any disruption of these, or severe deviation from an established norm would be cause to deny access. The denial might be temporary or permanent.

This really seems like a scapegoating maneuver to me. I believe he may have been killed to cover-up governmental wrongdoings, and to provide something that the government has not been able to provide, a guilty party in the nightmare that was 2001. And with Ivins not around to defend himself, and the feds being able to fabricate whatever they'd like, it seems like a big fat conspiracy to me.

It's just a theory and I'm not so set in my belief in this conspiracy quite yet that I can't be swayed, so I would love some other opinions. To me, however, everything about this case just seems very suspicious, and reminds me of the Lee Harvey Oswald case somehow.

Anyhow, let the discussion begin.

Here are links to some of my sources.

abcnews.go.com...

www.nowpublic.com...

en.wikipedia.org...

www.usamriid.army.mil...

www.msnbc.msn.com...

I was hoping for some responses already, but oh well, I'll check back in a few minutes. Thanks in advance.

I'm having a hard time believing that no one else shares my opinion that something isn't Kosher with this whole Dr. Ivins case. Anyhow, I'll keep watching for responses.

This case is ridiculous. We hadn't heard about the anthrax case in years then they guy shoots himself and a couple days later they announce case closed. One crime of many and i am getting really sick of it. God forbid I should run for congress and go clean this up myself.

Thanks for your response, and I certainly agree with you. Yeah we see a lot of BS perpetrated by the government on a daily basis.... but this case really threw up a bunch of big red flags for me. There might be some other aspect of this case that might be pertinent that I have missed. From what I've read thus far, it just doesn't seem to add up.

I'm not sure how much you could accomplish in Congress really, but if you ever truly decided to run, I'd root for you.

[edit on 8-8-2008 by Osiris1953]

I too thought this case stunk to high heaven and was a transparent coverup and somehow Ivins is almost a caricature of a patsy.

s&f

reply to post by whaaa


Yes exactly. Another thought did occur to me. Perhaps he did in fact mail the anthrax. Suppose he was ordered to do so. The paper trail of memos was destroyed, his name was sullied, and he was killed to further cover up any leakable evidence. It certainly is a possibility, at least IMO.

This guy gets whacked and then everything is conveniently pinned on him. Or, knowing of his 'delicate' psyche (which is VERY HARD to swallow), the government pressures him into suicide. Since he can't speak for himself they say "case closed". How convenient. Kind of like the 'apparent' suicide of the General in Alaska who happened to be in charge of the mysterious nukes flight where supposedly 6 took off and only 5 were received. That along with the mysterious deaths of many of the soliders involved with that flight. Boy, and the people will still simply believe in accidents and coincidental suicides.

Yeah, this guy is a skapegoat. I'm sick of it too. I have been writing and writing for my reps to truly start representing or they can find a new career. The problem with this is that there are laws trying to be pushed through where you can be arrested for sending complaints to your elected officials. Yup, welcome in the fascist state. Long live king Bush and kin.

Originally posted by dariousg
The problem with this is that there are laws trying to be pushed through where you can be arrested for sending complaints to your elected officials.

I hadn't heard this before, but it certainly is disturbing. Whenever you have an issue with the community or government at large you're told by most people to write to your congressman. That would be absolutely detestable if a law like that was actually passed.

Anyhow, I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who felt this way concerning Dr. Ivins. Thanks so much for your post.

Though I despise Bush, I don't believe him to be intelligent enough to mastermind anything. I've always believed, like many, that Cheney is the puppet master.

Thanks again.

He would have been the most likely candidate to sign some quantity of the anthrax that he was responsible for. As such, he would be the weak link, as far as any cover up.

The charges were dropped against another scientist in this case. We have no way of knowing if Irvin had a hand in that, perhaps saying this wasn't the person who had control of a portion of the anthrax.

Yes, I myself have found these things to at the least give one a passing thought that once again the "Lone Nut" is found out, though "unfortunately" he's dead. It tidies things up for the real criminals, IMO.

reply to post by NGC2736


That's just it, we have no way of knowing.... and that's what makes it so suspicious. We're dealing with a dead guy, who worked in a facility none of us, or independent investigators will ever have access too. We have nothing to verify the truth of any of this, no media access, nothing. We're just supposed to buy whatever is they tell us happened. That is exactly why I don't buy it, besides what I mentioned in my original post. In general I believe that the FBI is one of the more honest of the "lettered" organizations, but this is truly unbelievable. It's always a possibility they are being duped as well to further the cover-up. Anyhow, thanks for you post.

There's an old case that has a lot of similar events. It shows that such actions are easily performed by various agencies in the government.

Frank Olson

And if you want a look at how the CIA works, in regards to killing people, look at their manual, which is the third link on this page:

www.bio.net...

[edit on 8-8-2008 by NGC2736]

reply to post by NGC2736

Assassination is an extreme measure not normally used in clandestine operations. It should be assumed that it will never be ordered or authorized by any U.S. Headquarters, though the latter may in rare instances agree to its execution by members of an associated foreign service.

I found this part of the very beginning quite amusing indeed.

I love how they make a point to say that killing is wrong then give several reasons when it would be perfectly ok.

The section on killing one with drugs was also especially interesting considering the Ivin's case. Thanks for the link I didn't realize that the Assassination Manual existed, let alone, existed on the internet.

As far as Frank Olsen goes, yes there is a lot in common, but what really rings bells for is that he worked at the same damn lab as Ivins. It really begs the question, what the heck is going on there?

Well, hopefully we will get some more responses later. Thanks again to those who have posted so far.

reply to post by Osiris1953


You don't usually have a detailed manual for how to do something that you never do.
And even though this was years ago, in the Olson case, I have never thought that these organizations change much; when they find something that works, they stick with it.

Yes, the fact that both men were scientist at the same facility, separated by several decades seems more than a coincidence.

Also, if you research the Olson case, there was a cover up, complete with bald faced lies, when he died. It took many years for the truth to come out. There is every reason to think the same may be true now.

Originally posted by NGC2736
reply to post by Osiris1953

 

Also, if you research the Olson case, there was a cover up, complete with bald faced lies, when he died. It took many years for the truth to come out. There is every reason to think the same may be true now.

Well I'm certainly going to have to do some research on Mr. Olsen after the little one goes to bed.

Of course an organization wouldn't change what works.

As far as the quote I used last post, I still can't get over it. To me it's analogous to saying "You will never ever have to punch a mutant space kitten in the face, we may order you to, which we won't, under certain circumstances we might, but it won't happen. Of course we would never order you to punch a mutant space kitten in the face. Next week, however, we need you to punch a mutant space kitten in the face."

It's more than ridiculous.

I hope to continue to see your participation in this thread. It's always a pleasure having you pipe in.

[edit on 8-8-2008 by Osiris1953]
Edited to fend off typing gremlins.

[edit on 8-8-2008 by Osiris1953]

I think that there is not enough evidence against Dr. Ivin's and the FBI knows it. But for some reason, they are pinning this on an innocent man. They either know who the real culprit is, but cannot divulge it at this time; or, the paper trail is so perfect, that it just so happens to conveniently lead to this, now dead, scientist. There are just too many holes in their story, and I can't believe that people are actually buying this story. There needs to be more evidence gathered, such as: has Dr. Ivin's EVER gone to the lab, late at night, over the past 4 years prior to the anthrax mailings? Because they're saying that he only went in late at night, a little while before the mail was sent. Maybe, during certain projects, over the course of the last 4 years, he did go in to the lab late at night.
Also, as I read in the Wallstreet Journal today, it talked about how Dr. Ivin's anthrax sample that he submitted in Feb. & April 2002 had been cleared.
Than, in 2004, the FBI caught wind that he held some samples back and so "an FBI agent, went to his lab, seized the flask of bacteria and submitted it for testing." So, only one FBI agent 'seized' the flask from Dr. Ivin's lab? If the FBI felt that they had strong enough evidence that Dr. Ivin held back samples, then why didn't they go in with a search warrant and a whole team of agents. And how sure are we that this particular FBI agent even got the flask from Dr. Ivin's lab. Are we sure because that's what the FBI tells us, so than it must be true?
I don't know if the government is guilty, but I do think that Dr. Ivin is taking the fall, and taking it oh so conveniently, now that he's dead. I think that it is very possible that someone was either forcing him to do this, or he is being framed. I think that it is very easy for someone to watch his movements, and take his delusional emails, and trace his steps to make it look like he did it.
But now we'll never know. Just remember, everything we see on TV isn't the truth!

Anyone else have something to add...hmmm? I'll be looking forward to it.

Excellent points anonymous person, and many I hadn't considered before. There are many holes in this story, and you have certainly added important information.

And.... yes isn't it convenient that he's dead?