Russia/Georgia Situation News & Updates

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• As a member of the pro-European opposition in Georgia, I support the sentiments expressed by Vaclav Havel and others. Whatever our views of President Saakashvili, we want to see our country reunited and an end to the illegal Russian occupation. There is no doubt the 2008 conflict was planned in Moscow and I hope the EU's report will condemn the almost daily Russian provocations in our territory, as well as showing how our government fell into the most obvious trap.

We need to look forward, though. Both sides must respect the terms of the ceasefire. Through trade and incentives, we need to offer the Abkhazians and Ossetians an alternative to Russia. The international community must do far more to prevent the ethnic cleansing of Georgians. But our security in the face of the Russian threat must not come at the expense of a vibrant, healthy democracy or political reconciliation. I have personal experience of negotiating with the Abkhaz and remain optimistic that we can achieve our dream of peaceful coexistence, not just between Abkahzians, Ossetians and Georgians, but also between political opponents in Tbilisi. We will need European support for both.

Irakli Alasania

Leader, Our Georgia Free Democrats

European Patrols Brace for Rise in Tension Over Report on 2008 War in Georgia

MOSCOW — European Union monitors are stepping up their patrols in Georgia ahead of the release of a much anticipated report on the origins of last year’s war in South Ossetia, in case the report’s conclusions reignite tensions around the breakaway territories of Abkhazia and South Ossetia.

There has been heated speculation about the European Union report, which will be presented next Wednesday to the organization’s Council of Ministers in Brussels. Both Russia and Georgia maintain that they bear no responsibility for the war’s outbreak, and each says it hopes that its version of events will be the one that the commission writes into the historic record.

The report could make political waves if it sharply apportions blame, instead of concluding, as many in the West have, that both governments bear some responsibility. Georgia’s president, Mikheil Saakashvili, in New York City to address the United Nations General Assembly, dismissed a report in the German magazine Der Spiegel that said he would be largely blamed for starting the war.

“Nobody takes this kind of newspaper [sic] quote seriously because everybody who was there — and there were serious people there — everybody knows what happened,” Mr. Saakashvili said Tuesday on the CNN program “American Morning.” He said Georgia was too small a country to prevail in a war with Russia.

“We are not crazy in any way,” he said.

A Russian deputy foreign minister, Grigory B. Karasin, said he expected an “honest and unbiased report.” He noted that Russian officials met with the commission’s leader for a final round of questioning as recently as last week, making available a major figure: Gen. Maj. Marat Kulakhmetov, who led a detachment of Russian peacekeeping troops in South Ossetia on the night the war broke out.

“We seek the truth, and we are convinced the truth is on our side,” Mr. Karasin told the Interfax news service during a trip to Astrakhan, in southern Russia.

In December, the European Union established the Independent International Fact-Finding Mission on the Conflict in Georgia, under the leadership of a Swiss diplomat, Ambassador Heidi Tagliavini. The inquiry was originally scheduled to present its conclusions at the end of July, as tensions were rising on the eve of the war’s anniversary. The release was postponed for two months because investigators received a raft of new documents, organizers have said.

Ms. Tagliavini and her two deputies have called on 19 experts in such topics as international law and Georgia-Russia relations, and are also working with an advisory board that includes former government, military and humanitarian officials.

In preparation for the report’s release, the European Union Monitoring Mission in Georgia, which has no connection with the war inquiry, is increasing its patrols around South Ossetia and Abkhazia by about 40 percent, especially early next week, said Alexandra Issacovitch, a spokeswoman for the mission. The authorities said they were not expecting violence, but wanted the capability to double-check allegations of gunfire or a military buildup on the boundary, she said.

“Maybe there would be some party that is not very happy with what is said,” Ms. Issacovitch said.

In an open letter published Tuesday in The Guardian, a group of European intellectuals — including Vaclav Havel, the former Czech president, and the French philosopher Bernard-Henri Lévy — urged Europe to stand behind Georgia as the commission released its results.

“A big power will always find or engineer a pretext to invade a neighbor whose independence it resents,” the letter said. “We should remember that Hitler accused the Poles of commencing hostilities.”

But Oksana Antonenko, who organized talks between Georgian and South Ossetian officials in 2005, said she doubted that the report would reach a stark conclusion.

“People somehow think this report is going to apportion blame,” said Ms. Antonenko, a senior fellow at the International Institute for Strategic Studies in London. “The truth is, this commission really did not have access to the type of intelligence that would have been necessary to indisputably assert something new.”

By now, she added, most countries have already adjusted their policies, and people have long since made up their minds.

“Nobody wants to open up any real debate about what went wrong,” she said. “This commission comes at a time when all sides want this issue to be closed.”

Saakashvili tells UN of 'Berlin wall' in Georgia

Georgian President Mikhail Saakashvili has told the UN General Assembly a "Berlin wall" had divided his country into two parts since the military conflict with Russia in August 2008.

Speaking last of 35 state representatives to take the podium on Thursday at the 64th session of the UN General Assembly, Saakashvili added that Georgia's territorial integrity must be restored. [...]"Tragically, Georgia today like Germany a generation ago is a nation with a deep wound running through her," Saakashvili said.

The Georgian president said the "wall that runs through the middle of Georgia" had been "built by an outside force."

He called Abkhazia "the birthplace of Georgian civilization" and vowed that it would again be part of Georgia.

"It will take time, but Abkhazia I'm sure will once again be what it was - the most wonderful part of Georgia," he said.

He's so full of it. He HATES Abkhazians, especially since they want to govern themselves, that was the motive of the 1993 operation and the motive of the 2008 operation, give a message to the independantists by killing a bunch of them and a bunch of civilians while passing by.

Saakasvilli, you're such a liar...

Here is what the Ossetians say :

Only a complete idiot would think Russia is completely innocent, and are only defending their peacekeepers. Russia are defending their interests, but these interests spread much further than self-defence.

Georgians were killing Russian peacekeepers and civilians outside of official Russian territory. Just because the US supported it doesn't mean Russia wouldn't protect her people from some little country that believes it is bigger than it really is.

EDIT: haha, way to go Iskanders

[edit on 29-9-2009 by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi]

More news...

Abkhazia warns Georgia against hostilities in Black Sea

Georgia will be held responsible for any future confrontation with Russia in the Black Sea, the Abkhazian foreign minister said on Tuesday.

"All hostilities [in the region] in the past decade have been initiated by Georgia, and only Georgia can provoke a new conflict...Recently they [the Georgians] have been active in the [Black] sea, and Russia, fulfilling its obligations will help us protect our borders," Sergei Shamba said in an interview with RIA Novosti.

"If they [the Georgians] attempt to violate our borders, this will mean they are deliberately seeking confrontation, and Georgia will be held responsible for it," Shamba said.

Nothing new...

reply to post by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi


EU reports on Russia Georgia conflict

A European Union report into the causes of last year's war between Russia and Georgia will be published on Wednesday.

The independent study is likely to say that while the Georgians fired the first shot, the Russians created the conditions that led to the conflict.

Five days of fighting ended with Russian troops driving Georgian forces out of the separatist regions of Abkhazia and South Ossetia.

[snip], we know that Russia's intentions go beyond peacekeeping duties. This war and probably future wars in the caucasus' are part of Putin's plans to dominate all pipelines from Asia. As happened last August - the Kremlin are now setting up another conflict using whatever reckless policies they can think of. It's a classic strategy for a bigger country to invade a smaller neighbouring country they don't like.

The people of Abkhazia and S.Ossetia are just being used as pawns, the Kremlin doesn't really care about those people at all - only the Russian soldiers that are going to be stationed in Abkhazia under a pretence of peacekeeping, along with an airbase with S-300 as well.

The Kremlin have ordered the Russian army to ethnic cleanse Ingushetians and North Ossetians, by assassinating young males and at times entire families. We know what's going on, and the modern day Kremlin are fascists who even kill people who live in the Russian Federation because they don't like the look of them. The kremlin are no better than the Nazi's, and for them to pretend they care about Abkhazian's & S.Ossetian's is so far beyond reality, in fact it's ridiculous!


[edit on 30-9-2009 by john124]



Personal attack snipped

[edit on 30/9/09 by masqua]

at John. And you're blaming only Russia, that's funny since the US had a big part in the setting up of the conflict. CIA backed revolution, establishment of CIA black torture camps in Georgia, arming of the Georgian army, training of the Georgian army... probably giving the go-ahead to Georgia to attack South Ossetia and Abkhazia and telling them they would back them up.

Russia, Georgia and the White House in 08 are responsable for the august war.

EU war report says Georgia initiated conflict - Russian envoy

BRUSSELS, September 30 (RIA Novosti) - The EU-commissioned report on the Russia-Georgia war in August 2008 has put the blame on Tbilisi for starting the conflict, Russia's ambassador to the European Union said on Wednesday.

"Who started it? The report gives an unequivocal answer," Vladimir Chizhov said, adding he would send the report, which was released on Wednesday, to Moscow for an official statement.

The report was commissioned by the Council of the European Union, and compiled by Swiss diplomat Heidi Tagliavini, along with 30 European military, legal and history specialists. The experts were to investigate the causes of the conflict.

Georgian officials said the report blamed Russia for escalating the conflict.

We'll see what's in the report for real when it's released later today.

[edit on 30-9-2009 by Vitchilo]

reply to post by Vitchilo


Russia were planning months in advance for this war according to the EU report.

Originally posted by john124
Russia were planning months in advance for this war according to the EU report.

It wasn't planning, but preparing for the possibility of war. Saakashvilli began threatening to attack South Ossetia for more than a year before the August War. Several months before the war he initiated a massive troop deployment near the border with South Ossetia, and Georgia began sending UAV's over the region. All actions by Georgia were pointing to ongoing preparations for war. So of course Russia did not idle, and prepared for the possibility of conflict.

Russia's preparations were reciprocal. For those who have monitored news on Georgia and South Ossetia for many years as I have, it is pretty clear that it was Saakashvili that started the escalation that eventually led to war. In fact there are posts on ATS chronicling those events in detail.

Originally posted by john124
[snip], we know that Russia's intentions go beyond peacekeeping duties. This war and probably future wars in the caucasus' are part of Putin's plans to dominate all pipelines from Asia.

If the intention was to take control over the pipeline running through Georgia, then please explain why Russia didn't occupy the region through which the pipeline runs? Nothing stood in the way of Russia occupying most of Georgia. You state that you know Putin's intentions, but facts disprove your theory.

Originally posted by john124
As happened last August - the Kremlin are now setting up another conflict using whatever reckless policies they can think of. It's a classic strategy for a bigger country to invade a smaller neighbouring country they don't like.

What smaller neighboring countries has Russia invaded and occupied in the last 20 years? Georgia doesn't count, because Russia did not occupy it when it easily could have.

Originally posted by john124
The people of Abkhazia and S.Ossetia are just being used as pawns, the Kremlin doesn't really care about those people at all - only the Russian soldiers that are going to be stationed in Abkhazia under a pretence of peacekeeping, along with an airbase with S-300 as well.

What is the greater wrong:

Russia using South Ossetians as pawns or Georgia using them for artillery target practice?


And you could say the very same thing you said about NATO troops in Kosovo. What gives NATO the right to station military assets in Kosovo, while Russia can't do the same in South Ossetia and Abkhazia?

Originally posted by john124
The Kremlin have ordered the Russian army to ethnic cleanse Ingushetians and North Ossetians, by assassinating young males and at times entire families.

HUH? What on earth are you talking about?

Originally posted by john124
We know what's going on, and the modern day Kremlin are fascists who even kill people who live in the Russian Federation because they don't like the look of them.

Right.... Which is why there are millions of Tatars, Bashkirs, Chuvash, Chukchi, Kzakh, Azerbaijani, Armenians, and other ethnical minorities living and prospering in Russia. Russia has historically been an ethnically diverse country, and continues to be so. You do not know much about Russia do you?

Originally posted by john124
The kremlin are no better than the Nazi's, and for them to pretend they care about Abkhazian's & S.Ossetian's is so far beyond reality, in fact it's ridiculous!

You get 5 points for being the first person in a while to compare Russia to Nazis. You can get 10 more if you point out that Putin is Hitler or even the Devil incarnate.

So according to you the Putin administration is equivalent of a regime that killed millions of people through genocide, tens of millions more through war, and invaded hundreds of thousands of square miles of territory. Brilliant.

[edit on 30-9-2009 by maloy]

reply to post by maloy


No better than the Nazi's because the Russian army are ethnic cleansing folks in the Russian federation just because they are of a darker complexion. Try paying attention to what goes on there. This is comparable to Nazi's or any other fascist organisation that murders indiscriminantly. I didn't say the number of murders were comparable, but who's to say what Putin will want to do next.

By preparing for last years war - Russia armed small militias in Abkhazia and S.ossetia, and moved small numbers of troops in before any firing began. You may hide away from that fact if you wish, but this "planning" is outlined in the EU report quite nicely.

Anyway you're the only one who mentioned Hitler. People with Nazi idealogies don't have to be as bad as hitler, but some of them have the potential.

[edit on 2-10-2009 by john124]

By the way, if you want to compare Putin to the most evil person in history, you might as well say Mao or Stalin, they killed much more people than Hitler.

Russia's Lavrov calls for Caucasus deal on non-use of force

Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov said on Friday that Georgia must sign a deal with its former republic of Abkhazia on the non-use of force.
"I state firmly that a deal between Georgia and Abkhazia on the non-use of force is necessary because it was not Russia that attacked, but Georgia that attacked Tskhinval [the South Ossetian capital]," Lavrov said during a visit to Abkhazia.
"Documents discovered in the Kodori Gorge after its liberation from Georgian forces during the August crisis confirm that Georgia was preparing an analogous attack on Abkhazia."

+1...but they will not do that since it would mean they accept Abkhazia as a state.

Russia may track shipping in neutral waters around Abkhazia

Russia could monitor and escort ships in neutral waters heading to Abkhazia to protect them from possible Georgian provocations, the Russian foreign minister said on Friday.

"We are certain that we could arrange such escorts of these cargoes that would guarantee protection from these provocations," Sergei Lavrov said during his current visit to Abkhazia.

That would be nice...so we could be sure that Georgia don't start any trouble by taking ships hostage.

Originally posted by john124
No better than the Nazi's because the Russian army are ethnic cleansing folks in the Russian federation just because they are of a darker complexion.

Who is being ethnically cleansed in Russia today, and what do you mean "darker complexion"? You appear to have little to no idea what you are talking about, and "Nazi" claims are just absurd.

Originally posted by john124
Try paying attention to what goes on there.

You do realize that I am from Russia and that I lived in the Caucasus. In fact I have close relatives who you may say belong to the "darker complexion" (when in fact the people who of the Caucasus are white, but you wouldn't know that) - and your statements are utterly absurd.

Seriously - why don't you tell me what ethnical cleansing is being perpetrated by the Russia army? You claim to know so much about it - surely you must know something everyone else doesn't.

Originally posted by john124
I didn't say the number of murders were comparable, but who's to say what Putin will want to do next.

What did Putin do?

Originally posted by john124
By preparing for last years war - Russia armed small militias in Abkhazia and S.ossetia

Abkhazia and S Ossetia have maintained their own military since the USSR fell apart. They have not received arms or equipment from Russia for more than a decade. If you have sources that prove otherwise, then please do share them.

Originally posted by john124
and moved small numbers of troops in before any firing began.

There were Russia peacekeepers in S Ossetia, just as there were Georgian. They were sanctioned and monitored by UN.

Originally posted by john124
Anyway you're the only one who mentioned Hitler.

And you mentioned Nazis, which is no less absurd than me mentioning Hitler. Please do explain to me what the Nazi's and the Russian Federation share in idealogy, law, strategy, goals, or methods.

Originally posted by john124
People with Nazi idealogies don't have to be as bad as hitler, but some of them have the potential.

What aspect of the Nazi idealogy does Russia exhibit today? I'll speculate that you have limited knowledge of Russian politics, but are you even familiar with Nazism and National Socialism?

Originally posted by Vitchilo
By the way, if you want to compare Putin to the most evil person in history, you might as well say Mao or Stalin, they killed much more people than Hitler.

Or better yet - compare Putin to cancer and AIDS combined. They killed way more people than any mortal. Oh and heart disease. That right - Putin is cancer/AIDS/heart disease all in one - that's how damn evil he is. And he kicked a puppy. It just doesn't get anymore evil than that.


[edit on 2-10-2009 by maloy]

reply to post by Vitchilo

By the way, if you want to compare Putin to the most evil person in history, you might as well say Mao or Stalin, they killed much more people than Hitler.

Hmmm, yes i know of that russian bastard

Thanks for your russian propaganda links, I think I will believe my own eyes rather than russian news stories that attempt to portray ethnic cleansing as something otherwise.

[edit on 2-10-2009 by john124]

reply to post by maloy

Or better yet - compare Putin to cancer and AIDS combined. They killed way more people than any mortal. Oh and heart disease. That right - Putin is cancer/AIDS/heart disease all in one - that's how damn evil he is. And he kicked a puppy. It just doesn't get anymore evil than that.

Yes lets compare Putin to a disease because both have a lot of similarities.

I bet you worship your dictator!

Originally posted by john124
I bet you worship your dictator!

I see you ignored my inquiries about what ethnical cleansing and Nazi-like idealogy in Russia is taking place, which you claimed you knew so much about. No worries if you can't back up your claims though - I understand how fun it must be for you to have an imaginary boogeyman.

And I do not have a dictator, nor do I worship or have voted for the administration in Kremlin. Face it - you know very little about Russia, its politics, and its society. What you do know - you have selectively gathered from bits and pieces of articles in foreign media. If you wish to bring forth some sound arguement to prove me wrong - then please do so.

[edit on 3-10-2009 by maloy]

Russian warships to escort Abkhazia-bound freight vessels

MOSCOW, October 5 (RIA Novosti) - Russian coastguard patrol boats and Black Sea Fleet warships will escort freight vessels carrying supplies to Abkhazia, a source in Russia's security services said on Monday.

"Border patrol boats, as well as Black Sea warships, will be able to ensure the security of navigation in and around Abkhazia," he said.

He added that the necessary infrastructure was being built at the Abkhazian port of Ochamchira.

Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov said on Friday Russia could monitor and escort ships in neutral waters heading to Abkhazia to protect them from possible Georgian provocations.

WOOT! The system is almost in place so Georgia will stop their BS and ships will be able to go to Abkhazia unarmed.

Abkhazian leaders also asked for russian passports for all abkhazians citizen so they could travel abroad. Good for them.

An update:

Russia’s Security Service Says Georgia Helps ‘Al Qaeda Emissaries’

Chief of Russia’s Federal Security Service (FSB), Alexander Bortnikov, claimed on October 13, that the Georgian secret services were assisting “Al Qaeda emissaries” in arranging sending of fighters and arms in Chechnya and Dagestan, respectively.

Speaking at a meeting of Russia’s Counter-Terrorism Committee, Bortnikov said, as quoted by the Russian news agencies: “Audio files recovered from fighters confirmed, that they, together with Al Qaeda emissaries, have established contacts with Georgian special services and with the latter’s participation they organized the infiltration of terrorists into the territory of the Chechen Republic.”

“Moreover, they constantly make attempts to deliver arms, explosives, finances for carrying out acts of sabotage in Dagestan, targeting, first of all, oil and gas pipelines,” he added.

reply to post by john124


I don't get it, what are your thoughts? Is this a "so it begins" situation or a "so it ends" situation? plucky is confused.