Raising Kids Without Religion... A cop-out?

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
By raising you the way she did she was following the Lord who commanded her to do so:

Although you have listed quotes from the bible that have pearls of wisdom, in all honesty she was following the commandments of man. The bible was written by man, not god.

I am sure the rebuttal will be something along the lines of "it was inspired by god"... but so was 'dubbya' apparently

Just bc someone claims something was inspired by god does not mean it was. There are many things others claim were inspired by god that christians don't believe in... christians tend to not be consistent in their logic.

edited to add: I notice the OP pretty much said the same thing I did. Sorry for the repeat.

[edit on 7-8-2008 by justamomma]

Originally posted by asmeone2
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

I think you misunderstand me.

I don't understand the exact mechanism of dying, nor what happens afterwards, but I understand that it means the soul leaves the body, which children can't understand before a certain age(which varies from kid to kid.)

They are my kids regardless if they understand that or not. My point was that the beleif should match what the child is capable of understanding.

I know what you mean, but I'm simply stating that we never stop being our parent's children, I still go to Mom and Pops for advice, most likely they have experienced something I'm having a difficult time with.

Now, of course a parent wouldn't teach that aspect of Christianity to a toddler, but when the child is older it is okay. For a toddler teaching them that "God made kitty", etc... I don't think anyone assumes the parent should teach every aspect of God's Word to toddlers, when they are that age teach them to fear God, just the way we teach them to fear the belt if they act up.

The lesson has to match the level they can comprehend... baby steps. I was pointing out that it seemed like you were saying that at some point we were no longer our parents children, or that their "teachings" ended when we went off to school.

Originally posted by justamomma

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
By raising you the way she did she was following the Lord who commanded her to do so:

Although you have listed quotes from the bible that have pearls of wisdom, in all honesty she was following the commandments of man. The bible was written by man, not god.

I am sure the rebuttal will be something along the lines of "it was inspired by god"... but so was 'dubbya' apparently

Just bc someone claims something was inspired by god does not mean it was. There are many things others claim were inspired by god that christians don't believe in... christians tend to not be consistent in their logic.

edited to add: I notice the OP pretty much said the same thing I did. Sorry for the repeat.

[edit on 7-8-2008 by justamomma]

Uuugh. Of course I know it was, are you aware that we Christians believe the Holy Bible is the "inspired" word of God? Meaning, the Holy Spirit wrote it through the mind, then arm, then pen of the author?

That's what we mean when we say "God's Word". I seriously doubt any human thinks God sits in heaven and writes scriptures all day long, then sends them to us via "Heaven Express".

Backing this up with quotes from the bible is silly. Assuming that your bible is the only "right" bible is silly. Forcing religion on a child that was born into FREE WILL is silly. Religion just gives genuinely evil men, such as Hitler or W, an excuse to do the things they do.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


Obviously I knew that christians believe "god inspired man" because I called out your rebuttal before you even wrote it.

[edit on 7-8-2008 by justamomma]

There are a LOT of atheists and agnostics who are not consistent in their logic.
Why is it, if a Christian states their faith, they're immediately insulted with names? 'Narrow-minded', 'oppressive' and 'gullible believer of lies?', many here that I haven't posted.

But, when someone of atheism, agnosticism does the same, they are USUALLY never insulted?
I believe it's about one's character.


BTW, I have NEVER in all my years heard anyone (who is a Christian) say.
"God works in mysterious ways"!

now, you may continue with your christian-bashing, if you so choose

[edit on 7-8-2008 by Clearskies]

I know what you mean, but I'm simply stating that we never stop being our parent's children, I still go to Mom and Pops for advice, most likely they have experienced something I'm having a difficult time with.

Now, of course a parent wouldn't teach that aspect of Christianity to a toddler, but when the child is older it is okay. For a toddler teaching them that "God made kitty", etc... I don't think anyone assumes the parent should teach every aspect of God's Word to toddlers, when they are that age teach them to fear God, just the way we teach them to fear the belt if they act up.

The lesson has to match the level they can comprehend... baby steps. I was pointing out that it seemed like you were saying that at some point we were no longer our parents children, or that their "teachings" ended when we went off to school.

No matter what you teach your children, in the religious sense, it is in the end up to them if they follow it or not.

I don't agree with your second post. We should not fear god, we should try to be in harmony with him. Christianity sells that, but doesn't deliver it. Children should not learn to act a certain way because they're afraid of getting spanked. That only makes the child angry and one day, that will backfire.

I am going to concur with justamomma.

If it says if's from god, that doesn't make it so.

I am writing a book now. I could make it sound theological, and claim that it is the word of god. Does that mean that it is? Absolutely not. The best I could do is say this is words written about god.

reply to post by asmeone2


I've been 'in harmony' with God off and on for almost 16 years.
If I'm not 'connected', it's a problem on my side, it's called backsliding.

Jesus came and hugged me and wiped the tears from my eyes(not literally) when I
finally asked him to be my Saviour and forgive me.
I've felt Him with me and gotten discernment and secret knowledge from Him MANY times!
From ashes to Beauty!

[edit on 7-8-2008 by Clearskies]

reply to post by Clearskies


I think they're never insulted because they have the more realistic belief. Being an agnostic myself, I can say I've been cursed, frowned-upon, and damned to hell by MANY Christians. All because I didn't believe what they did.

So it works both ways. I simply don't believe we should chain our children to the shackles of religion at birth.

Keep on condemning the damned until you've damned yourself.

reply to post by MrGrieves


Cursed and damned by Christians?
What did they say?
I've never seen such as that.

Originally posted by Clearskies
There are a LOT of atheists and agnostics who are not consistent in their logic.
Why is it, if a Christian states their faith, they're immediately insulted with names? 'Narrow-minded', 'oppressive' and 'gullible believer of lies?', many here that I haven't posted.

But, when someone of atheism, agnosticism does the same, they are USUALLY never insulted?
I believe it's about one's character.


BTW, I have NEVER in all my years heard anyone (who is a Christian) say.
"God works in mysterious ways"!

now, you may continue with your christian-bashing, if you so choose

[edit on 7-8-2008 by Clearskies]

Oh, now come on The implications that those who don't agree with your beliefs are lacking character is more of a subtle insult than it is proof of your "good" character. I have seen many threads on this board where "christians" are just as, if not more rude to the atheists.

And just because *you* haven't heard anyone deflect the questioning of god and the bible w/ "God works in mysterious ways" does not mean that it is not being said.

The subtle insults and nonsensical thinking is why I just reconfirmed my decision to not drown my kids in religion... not that I was debating it

Originally posted by MrGrievesI think they're never insulted because they have the more realistic belief.

You are exactly right. The reason it is more annoying to me when religious ppl insult is bc they do it behind the facade of their preferred religion... subtle and self righteous. I don't classify EVERY INDIVIDUAL who claims to be christian this way, but the stereotypical christian tends to be too cowardly to just come right out and admit they think your an arsehole.

In light of the topic, I want my kids to OWN THEIR WORDS AND ACTIONS!

[edit on 7-8-2008 by justamomma]

Originally posted by MrGrieves
reply to post by Clearskies

 

I think they're never insulted because they have the more realistic belief. Being an agnostic myself, I can say I've been cursed, frowned-upon, and damned to hell by MANY Christians. All because I didn't believe what they did.

So it works both ways. I simply don't believe we should chain our children to the shackles of religion at birth.

Keep on condemning the damned until you've damned yourself.

I think it's also because of a fundamental difference in the type of beleif. Christians have little variance in what they beleive, wheras atheism is the lack of beleif in something, and agnostisim covers a pantheon of views. You might have more variety with the A's, which to some would appear as inconsistancies, I suppose.

reply to post by asmeone2


I know they have a wide-array of something, but,
they usually share hatred for Christians.
Insulting, belittling, even outright lies against us.
.

reply to post by Clearskies


I'm not saying that I walked into a church one day and they threw me into the depths of hell. I was just adding to your question on why Christians get "bashed", but agnostics do not.

It came to a point where members of my own FAMILY would say such things as-
"It saddens me that I won't be seeing you in Heaven" all because I wouldn't go to church anymore. I've never been into any trouble, never took part in any Satan worship, and have never been anything but nice to anyone I've come into contact with.

Remember Toy Story with those little toy aliens all looking up at the giant grabber and chanting "the claw... the claw"? That's how I see Christianity at this point.

You may argue that the bible touches upon some great, important things, and it does. That doesn't make up for the other things included that are complete and utter nonsense.

It makes me sad to see people like Oprah, who have done more selfless, kind, and wonderful acts than most Christians will ever do, get so much crap for going against a belief.

Start taking credit for your own actions. You guys are forgiven for your sins, and then you proceed to do those sins again. People need to get in touch with their own souls before they start worrying about everyone else's. You can teach how to be a good person without bringing religion into it.

I don't raise my children with religion because I am not a particularly religious person. I agree with your point that it has to be something they come to on their own, religion was shoved down my throat and I rejected it. I think it is silly to think that one can not teach a child the same morals taught in the bible without having them become some sort of weird religious drone. Just politely tell your mother that they are your children and you will raise them as you see fit, just as she did you.

Originally posted by Clearskies
reply to post by asmeone2

 

I know they have a wide-array of something, but,
they usually share hatred for Christians.
Insulting, belittling, even outright lies against us.

.

With all due respect to what you beleive, there has been through history great evil comitted by Christians. Sometimes it's in the name of saving souls, sometimes 'in the name of god' is used as an excuse.

Not to mention rampant hypocracy, and the holier-than-thou.

It may not be every Christian that does these things, but there's enough of them around to give the rest a bad name.

I can only speak for myself but as an agnostic I will say it's not so much the beleifs, but what they have been used to accomplish currently and through history, and the fact that so many who follow them do so in utter blindness.

I don't go out of my way to bash Christians, but they go out of theirs to "save" me and act like I've been waiting my whole life for the "Good News." I have no problem with what they beleive, but ust because they beleive it doesn't mean that I should too.

Originally posted by ClearskiesI know they have a wide-array of something, but, they usually share hatred for Christians. Insulting, belittling, even outright lies against us.

.

It is a stereotypical view of christianity that ppl are addressing. Not you personally.

I think it was the OP who said in another thread that religious groups should be more selective in choosing who you have representing your religion bc this is the view the world will have of you.

For instance, I am a Texan and I often hear the jabs about letting 'dubya' out of the state. Instead of being offended though, I laugh because #1. We should have been more selective in choosing a leader for this state bc now ppl associate Texas w/ 'dubbya,' #2. because he isn't actually a Texan and #3. I know they aren't accusing me PERSONALLY, but rather stereotyping which I just don't find offensive..... rather amusing actually.

Don't wear your emotions on your sleeve and you are less likely to end up bruised and hurt.

[edit on 7-8-2008 by justamomma]

Food for thought:

My mother in law raised my husband and his sister without any belief system. They are two of the most "lost" people I have ever met (and I don't mean in the Christian sense of the word saved vs lost).

They have floundered their entire lives.

Children need to be raised with some sort of belief system. I'm not sure how your parents were, but bringing your children to church is not "forcing" religion down their throats, it is simply giving them a base or foundation that they desperately need.