McCain called out by veterans

Originally posted by jam321
reply to post by maybereal11

 

yes, but that 10 Billion dollars you speak about is helping to save the lives of future veterans. I say spend 2o Billion if need be because our Congress and Bush sent them over.

Of course the obvious question along that line of logic...How much money would we save if we were not in Iraq anymore? How many veterans lives would be saved by not being there? I am not a statitician or economist, but my guess would be that we would save many more veterans lives and about 10 billion dollars a month by getting out.

And the premise that the money was available EITHER to fund the war or the veterans care, I am not buying it.


[edit on 6-8-2008 by maybereal11]

[edit on 6-8-2008 by maybereal11]

Here is the best thing I have read in awhile about Obama and veterans.

Maybe Veterans should be "Calling out" Obama?

Enjoy

So support the joy-bringer, but spare me any Obama-like support for the troops. You see like most lefties he supports the troops, but only the wounded ones, and the veterans and the dead all of those who need his compasion because of the harm done to them by Bush's illegal and immoral war. He and the progressives only talk about those troops. Well we all know they are important, read the tenets of this blog for starters. But what the compassion-mongers boldy ignore is the troops who are still the pointy end of the spear, the ones on the ground turning terrorists into dead tangos, those are the troops Obama and the left don't support. Go read Obama's Veterans page on his site, chock full of compassion but not one mention of victory, not one mention of the battles we have fought and won, and certainly no mention of dead tangos or our live enemies. Heaven forbid we talk about that.

Blackfive

The policy of "Retreat and Surrender" ....

Semper

reply to post by semperfortis


It's pretty simple really. We "lefties" Support our troops. But they aren't the ones who make the decision to go to war. They just follow orders.

Thats what they do. So because of the fact that they have been led into harms way by failed policies, we visit wounded troops.

What the article you posted wants us to do is somehow claim a unilateral assault and battery on another soverign as some sort of victory? Really?

You call Abu Grahaib Victorious?

You think Guantanamo bay is somehow Victorious?

CIA Prisons at Diego Garcia and abroad Victorious?

You can't find victory in an illegal war. No matter how hard you fight. Victory for the troops on the ground in Iraq is defined not by winning the war, but by keeping themselves and the guy next to them alive for the day and getting back home safely.

And today, we hear that the EX-Driver of Bin laden has been indicted. Great. who next? His Chef? You call this Victory? VICTORY?????

Please, spare me your anti-anti-war rhetoric. Afhganistan is a righteous war. We all supported that whole heartedly. And there is still a chance for Victory there.

Iraq on the other hand was illegal and doomed to failure from the get go, no matter how it turns out now, we can NEVER claim victory in Iraq. We can only acknowledge what went wrong and fight for victory in Afghanistan.

You can NEVER justify the means by the result at the end.

Oh yeah, I'm a vet and would go fight for any righteous war, but NEVER for an illegal one. I HUNGER for actual victory.

reply to post by Quazga


Care to prove the "conflict" or preceding war was illegal?


Semper

reply to post by semperfortis


Honestly not really. I gave that up around the time the White House made it policy not to be held accountable. You can't get anyone subpeona'd these days.

reply to post by maybereal11


I agree with you 100% about getting out. But the reality is that we still got a long time before we get out. And as long as we are their we need to take care of the military in every way possible especially since they will be future veterans.

Yes, I do think we should give more money to the VA administration to help our veterans But in exchange they should get rid of other non performing programs. Non performing programs that only waste taxpayers money. Money that could be transferred to the VA and put to better use. And it should be stated somewhere that the money is to help the veterans not cover administrative costs.

Sometimes money is sent to a certain agency and most of the money is used to cover administrative costs. How does that help the people the money was intended for.

If McCain gets elected it will be like if Bush were to get a 3rd term, and if you are an intelligent person that truely cares about your country, YOU WONT WANT THAT TO HAPPEN, even if you voted for Bush in both elections and have a Bush shrine in your bedroom, for the love of us all, please dont vote for him. If either McCain or Obama were to be elected it will be the death knell of this country, and I truely believe this, mark my words...None of the above my friends, none of the above for your country's sake!

Originally posted by AndrewTB
Do you support wasteful government spending? Because really that's what a lot of these earmarks attached to bills involve.

Absolutely not. I'm voting for Ron Paul. I question McCain's judgment. Ensuring returning vets receive the very best care is more important than drawing a line in the sand over a few billion in additional debt, considering the scope of the budget problem and out of control spending. Look at all of the humongous big govt handouts McCain supports, and he's willing to screw some "little guys" to make political hay?

There is a reason John McCain lied and claimed perfect voting records with those Veteran organizations.

There is a reason John McCain lied and claimed perfect voting records with those Veteran organizations.

thats exactly right.

just like there's a reason the vietnam veteran called out john mccain in the first place


i reiterate my question:

Was the vietnam veteran lying?
Was he making up falsehoods about John McCain?

Nobody seems to want to touch that question with a 24,000 mile pole that stretches from here to vietnam its self.

reply to post by semperfortis


Ahhh a response


First off i put no words in your mouth so please don't put them in mine. I ddint accuse you - i asked you.

So since the veteran in the OP video isnt lying, then mccain must be.

if mccain feels compelled to lie about the support he receives from veteran associations....


hmm....


seems kinda fishy to me.

seems kinda fishy to me.

Nothing fishy about it...

I have shown you the Veteran Organizations that support McCain

I AM A VETERAN

I am a member of MANY veterans Organizations that support McCain

All FACTS

Also, please don't insult my intelligence as we have debated before and you do not need to stoop there. We both know your question was phrased to make a point and reflect your beliefs. One mans opinion, on the video or you, does not make a pattern, no matter how obsessed you may be.

The path taken lately away from any intellectual debate into the politics of the day is a shame. It has forced me to generally avoid the political forums as I find less and less of value when all we are getting is NA NA BOO BOO and He said/She said.

Yet in this case I think it is pretty clear; I assume the man on the video is a Veteran yet a hat does not make a Vet, I am a Veteran, his opinion is no more valid than mine; perhaps less as I am addressing the members here at ATS.

I have shown you where the LARGE Veterans groups do support McCain; while I can find Veterans that do not support McCain, I can also find people that think Obama is a Muslim.

The video is HORRIBLY Anti-McCain and the presenter does not hide that at all.

You are obsessively Anti-McCain and you don't hide that...

That is what this thread is really all about.

Ask yourself this.. What does your candidate, Obama, know about Veterans?

Easy... NOTHING.. He never served his country.

Semper

reply to post by semperfortis


There was never an insult towards your intelligence, and im sorry if you're trying to dig to find one.

The video was about McCain avoiding a question and McCain lying to the vet.

I never said there wasnt any veteran assocaitions that didnt support McCain

but McCain said ALL support him, that he has a flawless track record

thats a lie.

And thats all i said.
Why put words in my mouth to insult my intelligence? My posts lack "intelligence" ... come on semper. Who's stooping now?

When "he said she said" is said by the candidates (as the video clearly shows....unless you want to say that its doctored?) Why not talk about it?
Do you not think its important that mccain can't answer the mans question? Period? That he flatters the vet before the question, and runs like a scared child after the question? That he claims to be supported 100%, when its a lie?
Does Obama lie? Yep. But this is about McCain. If you would like to start a thread about Obama's lies - ill come partake.

You are a vet. I thank you for fighting for me. I really truly do.
I thank McCain for his service too. But you seem to take the approach that a person doesnt matter if they havent served. Atleast thats how i perceive it - i've been known to be wrong on more than one occasion

As far as Obama's record - thtas a discussion for another thread.
The context of THIS thread isnt about what McCain HAS done for veterans. The context of THIS thread is about a video which shows us McCain lying through his teeth TO a vet and avoiding very simple questions as a result.

So im asking if the vet in the video is lying?
Thats the point of this video.
There's no obligation on your part to answer my question - i admit.

But you seem to avoid my question like mccain avoided the one in the video.

Is the vet in the video is lying?


[edit on 8/10/2008 by Andrew E. Wiggin]

Is the vet in the video is lying?

The lie is you trying to force an absolute into a question with several facets..

What McCain SAID was..

I have received every award from every MAJOR veterans organization

He also said

I have been endorsed by all the Veterans SERVICE Organizations that "DO THAT"

The man did not lie as he was referring to whatever organizations he may be familiar with.

McCain did not lie as HE was referring to the Veterans Service Organizations that HE is familiar with as I am.

There is a difference in VETERANS ORGANIZATIONS.. And VETERANS SERVICE ORGANIZATIONS... Veterans will know that.

And please desist the independent commentary, it does nothing for the topic.

if you're trying to dig to find one.

Not necessary at all.

The thread was basically based on a lie as it insinuates that McCain said something that was never in the video, I was attempting to comment on the "soul" of the thread and not get too technical, but yet you persist, so I went ahead and did a short transcription of the video and the answers you are seeking are above.

Semper

Well thank you for finally addressing the question.

So the man is only half lying.

Do you have any words for me as to why McCain avoided the question?

Why McCain couldnt offer a straight answer?

Im not challenging that McCain hasnt done anything for veterans.

Im just not going to let this piece of ... shall we say... questionable material "go"

To me there seems to be a hidden agenda by McCain. He's hiding something. If he wasnt...why avoid the question from the man



For the record - if we're going to talk about whats "not necessary"

your comment about calling my thread a lie is completely unnecessary and completely unexpected from someone of your stature.

There's nothing "lying" about the OP. Its about a video and my take on it.

The video is a video, and there are other instances of it out there that exist (there was more than one camera in that room) that have been posted in this thread.

Just because its a difficult thing to discuss the darker underbelly of conservative leaders like mccain, doesnt mean i'm the one who's lying.

[edit on 8/10/2008 by Andrew E. Wiggin]