McCain called out by veterans

Originally posted by Andrew E. Wiggin

Originally posted by AndrewTB
I would dig up a link but I would prefer originality over such thing.

you're serious right?

So you're telling me - your form of originality is not backing up what you have to say?

Wow. What logical thoughts you have.

Here on ATS - debate is encouraged. if you bring nothing to the table but your own ideas and nothing to back them up - you're gona make a fool of yourself.

Care to post a link to your wild and whacky assertions?
Or......no?

I'm not going to waste my time digging up any information for someone that will refute it even it its solid proof.

On the other hand, off the top of my head I believe the Post-911 Veterans Education Assistance Act of 2008 was one of those bills.

As for making a fool of myself, everyone does it at one point or another. What matters in this case is i'm right, but far to lazy to do research for someone thats not worthy.

reply to post by Andrew E. Wiggin


I really want to know that if all those veteran legislation that McCain voted against solely dealt with veteran issues or not. It could shed more light as to why or why he didn't vote for the bill, especially if Congress is trying to throw in extra stuff at the taxpayers expense.

reply to post by jam321


I'll do some digging, jam.

But think of it this way:

If the explanation were that simple, why would mccain have refused to answer the guys question.

Are we doing "straight talk" or giving the veteran the run-around?

(said to mccain from me)

reply to post by Andrew E. Wiggin


Needless to say, it did appear as if the Senator was dancing around the question to me. Albeit, the Olberman standin probably added a lot to that impression given her "breakdown" of the event.

reply to post by Quazga


If what you say were possible - then why would the questioner have to further pursue McCain to get an answer to his original question?

Here is a much better description of that video if you choose not to believe what you see

but ill post the good parts for ease of reference (the link provides us with a transcript of the actual conversation)

The first question from the audience came from a Vietnam veteran, who challenged McCain's record of supporting health care for veterans. It was followed by this testy exchange, during which McCain fell back on his endorsements from veteran groups:

McCain: "I don't know what bill you're referring to...and I'll be glad to have you refer to it. The reason why I have a perfect voting record from organizations like Veterans of Foreign Wars and American Legion and all the other veterans' service organizations is because I support them."

Audience Member: "You do not have a perfect voting record with [Disabled American Veterans] and VFW. That's where these votes are recorded. The votes were for proposals by your colleagues in the Senate to increase health-care funding for the [Veterans Administration] in 2003, 2004, 2005 and 2006, for troops returning from Iraq and Afghanistan. You voted against those proposals. I can give the numbers of those Senate votes right now."

McCain: "I thank you and I'd be glad to examine what your version of my record is. Again, I've been endorsed in every election by all of the veterans' organizations that do that. I've been supported by them and received the highest awards from all of those organizations, so I guess they don't know something you know. I thank you very much and I will continue to be proud of my support for the veterans of this country."

From The Independent:

Disabled American Veterans gave McCain a dismal 20 percent rating, out of a possible 100 percent, during the second session of the 109th Congress, which ended in January 2007 -- their most recent rating. Iraq and Afghanistan Veterans of America gave McCain a grade of 'D.'

Vietnam Veterans of America does not offer a rating or grade, but they do provide a chart that compares McCain's vote to their preferred position. Since 2001, McCain voted with VVA nine times and against them 15 times. He also missed eight votes.

[edit on 8/5/2008 by Andrew E. Wiggin]

reply to post by Andrew E. Wiggin


thanks for doing some digging. I give you that he is dancing around the issue. But you also have to admit that Senators vote on a lot of different legislation and amendments and it's hard to remember which contained what. I do agree he could have been more direct with his answer.

reply to post by jam321


I'm more of the pessimist in that i believe senators rely on that excuse to vote one way or another.

If we were talking about voting on traffic regulation - i'd give you that mccain probably wouldnt remember

but mccain is a veteran

he's voting for or against veterans.


and he can't remember?

:shk:

I'm pulling the BS card on that one

I am a fan of the TRUTH...whoever it serves and an Obama supporter.

As far as what the deal is with McCain's voting record and vets..
The meat of it is here...

...Three of them were against Democratic amendments to the annual budget bill in 2004, 2005 and 2006. And all of them failed along party lines in a Republican-controlled Senate. But in each case, McCain supported different amendments to increase veterans' health benefits, either on the same day or the following day.

Specifically, in 2004 McCain voted against an increase of $1.8 billion, but an increase of $1.2 billion passed by unanimous consent. In 2005 he voted against an increase of $2.8 billion, but voted for a $410 million increase. And in 2006, he voted against a $1.5 billion increase, then voted for an $823 million increase.....

* As best I can tell McCAin opposed the amendments on two fronts (1) Too much money for Vets and (2) Democratic sponsored, BUT he was willing to sign off on compromised bills after republicans made their mark and for less money. So he did vote for benefits, just less than what was proposed each time and only after the republicans had there way.

FYI - For those that follow the link to the article there is a typo. Everytime it says "Update July 11th" that paragraph is referring to a different article where McCain fabricated some BS about Obama's tax plan.

AFL-CIO Falsely Attacks McCain
It runs an ad claiming McCain voted "against increasing health care benefits for veterans," when he actually voted repeatedly to increase them.
www.newsweek.com...

Thank you for that very informative video!!!!

reply to post by maybereal11


I admire your honesty. As a veteran and concern taxpayer I will say veterans do need to be taken care of for their service to their nation. But at the same time we also have to be financially responsible and ensure that we have the money to pay for such an increase without putting more burden on the taxpayers. I also read something similar to yours.

Great Job.

reply to post by maybereal11


I'd like to point out that he only votes for them after republicans have their way, however.

Maybe he could offer us (and the veteran in the OP video) an explanation as to why he voted against the higher amount, in favor of a republican supported lower amount?

This is what the OP video vet is asking (go watch the video..unless im just that dull)

McCain can't answer him.

I'll do my best to answer for him:

Because im a republican damnit. If i vote with democrats, i'll be laughed at.




People are already laughing at you mccain. And have been for a long long time.

reply to post by Andrew E. Wiggin


Andrew, I agree with a lot of what you say. Point blank McCain should have answered the question better. And I agree with you that for the most part republican vote the republican line and Dems vote the Dems line. But regardless of whether he chose the higher or the lower amount the veterans did get and increase.

To go further, I feel you will also have to analyze this further. Just because the money goes to the veterans doesn't necessary mean the veterans will benefit. Kinda like when we sent food aid to Burma, do you really think the aid reached the people who needed it most?

As far as what you originally posted, McCain did stumble around the issue. But I don't feel the need to make it a bigger issue than that. you made your point.

Originally posted by Andrew E. Wiggin
reply to post by maybereal11

 

I'd like to point out that he only votes for them after republicans have their way, however.

Andrew, I agree and I stated the same in my post. What McCain did was put politics above veterans. Self interest over a greater good. If he has a better explanation I am all ears.

Jam...Yes we are all tax payers, but the bit about "financially responsible and ensure that we have the money to pay for such an increase" strains credibility when you look at past spending of the Bush administration and the republican party when they were the majority.

The biggest deficiet in US history.
10 Billion dollars a month spent on Iraq for several years now.

Given the OUTRAGEOUS amount of money we have spent on the wars, it is an offense to any reasonable beings' sense of fairness or honor to suddenly claim fiscal restraint when it comes to caring for the brave soldiers we have sent in harms way when they return home broken.

I lean toward simple politics. McCain needs/needed republican support. Politics over conscience.

Not to say that the democrats are incapable of petty politics, but it doesn't change the fact that McCain smells really bad in this instance.

My father is a Vietnam Vet who was wounded in Action
My husband currently Serves in the Army Special Forces .

I do believe McCain to be the best choice for POTUS

BUT I do have major issue's with him .
He wouldn't even listen to possible evidence of POW'S left behind in Vietnam .
He just ignored it .More than once .
I find that disgusting .Seeing as how he was once a POW himself .
I no longer have any respect for him .

Libs can dig all they want and will never come up with anything more than I just stated . Well ,the issue with his first wife ,but even she supports him .

I don't want to give him my vote ,but really there is no other choice .

I'm a Veteran.

I support McCain as do the Veteran organizations I belong to.

Welcome to Veterans for John McCain. I invite you to join the growing ranks of veterans, from every conflict since World War II, that have pledged their support to my friend John McCain and who are working together for his election in November. Over 170 former generals and admirals have joined Senator McCain's Military Advisory Council and hundreds of other supporters of all ranks from all branches of service have joined us across the country.

Vets for McCain

Veterans support Senator John McCain because he is the most qualified candidate for President and Commander in Chief. Senator John McCain has a remarkable record of leadership and experience that embodies his unwavering lifetime commitment to service. Military Vets know that as the son and grandson of distinguished Navy admirals, Senator McCain deeply values duty, honor and service of country. Veterans also know that Senator John McCain will not settle for anything less than VICTORY in the Global War on Terror, and the Iraq battlefield. Vets will support John McCain on November 4. Vets are for McCain!

Vets4McCain

The Veteran organizations I belong to have donated and campaigned for McCain and will continue to do so. This country means enough to us to bleed for and die for, we can not let it get taken over by Socialism.

Semper

reply to post by maybereal11


yes, but that 10 Billion dollars you speak about is helping to save the lives of future veterans. I say spend 2o Billion if need be because our Congress and Bush sent them over. They owe it to those future veterans of war to protect them in every way possible. So I don't really see it as OUTRAGEOUS as to what we are spending on the war.

They will be veterans also so in a sense future veterans are being taken care of as well.

And I also want to point out that the biggest deceit in history was used to fund programs for both parties and all who were in power are responsible.

We could easily provide more for the veterans and fight a war if Congress would cut back on its spending habits. Here's one way

Consolidating duplicative programs will save money and improve government service. In addi­tion to those programs that should be eliminated completely, Congress should consolidate the fol­lowing sets of programs:

*
342 economic development programs;
*
130 programs serving the disabled;
*
130 programs serving at-risk youth;
*
90 early childhood development programs;
*
75 programs funding international education, cultural, and training exchange activities;
*
72 federal programs dedicated to assuring safe water;
*
50 homeless assistance programs;

source

This is only a partial list. Clink the link to see the rest of the programs they can combine.

I support helping veterans but you can't help them long term if your country is broke from being financially irresponsible.

reply to post by semperfortis


So....the man in the video of the OP is lying?

or..

Originally posted by AndrewTB
Theres no doubt about McCain's military career. It's been in the spot light more than long enough to dig out every little dusty skeleton thats in there. Thing is there really arent too many skeletons.

He served his country with dignity. Liberals can dig all they want, you wont find anything.

Nice deflection. So for several consecutive years Senator McCain voted against increasing VA health care funding because of the attached earmarks ? I'll bet there are several bills he's voted yes on with earmarks attached. The ones in the health care bills must have been especially egregious to hang veterans out to dry over.

reply to post by Andrew E. Wiggin


No... Please stop putting words in my mouth...

I said

I am a Veteran

The groups I belong to and the ones I listed all support McCain

Semper

Originally posted by Schaden

Originally posted by AndrewTB
Theres no doubt about McCain's military career. It's been in the spot light more than long enough to dig out every little dusty skeleton thats in there. Thing is there really arent too many skeletons.

He served his country with dignity. Liberals can dig all they want, you wont find anything.

I'll bet there are several bills he's voted yes on with earmarks attached. The ones in the health care bills must have been especially egregious to hang veterans out to dry over.

No doubt about that one fella. The thing is earmark bills can very. Now can I ask you one question? Do you support wasteful government spending? Because really that's what a lot of these earmarks attached to bills involve.