9/11-What witnesses really saw

reply to post by Niobis


this pretty much proves my point. it doesn't matter how many people say they saw it, the folks that don't want to believe will find new and interesting ways to prove to themselves that everyone else is crazy.

I will, again, invite anyone to walk around the streets of manhattan and ask us locals what they saw that day. every time one of them tells you their story, you go right ahead and tell them that they didn't really see it. we didn't see the buildings fall either. we didn't witness anything. big giant optical illusion.


this is why the real issues surrounding 9/11, things like "how was it that the government failed so miserably in their attempts to protect us and how is it that the white house (clinton and bush at a minimum) didn't know more and do more in the years, months, weeks, and days prior to the event to protect us?'

instead we get a sleight of hand stealing our attention away from the real issue.

the plane was green and kept fading in and out and there was a woman in a white robe with big breakfast rolls over her ears kneeling down and aiming the plane at the buildings.

keep focusing on the inane and let the real issues get brushed under the rug

reply to post by Crakeur


I'm not trying to prove anyone crazy. I'm simply trying to show the videos that feature "planes" have problems and are computer graphics or other plane pictures inserted into the video. None of which are the real Flight 175.

When we can prove the media is half the problem, and the collapses are a result of a CD, we can then come to the conclusion that our government didn't want to try and protect us because they are the criminals behind all the events. 9/11 was their gain, and for their gain only.

I assume you're comment about a green plane and it fading in and out is sarcasm referring to the hologram theory. I wasn't being sarcastic with my question. I'm interested in what type and color plane you saw because many eye-witness reports seem to cover many things from airbuses to missiles.

reply to post by dracodie


Apologies if the following footage has already been shown. It is first hand reference to 911 and may be of interest.

This guy has a video camera and walks toward the twin towers just after the first plane hit.

At 6 min 25 secs. you can clearly hear the approaching second plane. Further, what may finally (I hope) debunk the 'no plane' theory is the fact that materials (possibly the engine and certain plane parts) are heard hitting the road seconds after the plane strike. One man appeared to be killed by such debris! This can be caught in the first minute of video 2.

By the way - this guy is basing his video more around the demolition truck he sees driving by as a stand alone conspiracy - but there is more in this video, I feel.

However, make your own minds up.
Video 1


Video 2


Breifne

Edit to add: Warning - some strong language after the strike, as you can imagine.



[edit on 6-8-2008 by Breifne]

reply to post by Niobis


So how come there are numerous other videos and still pics that show the JET hitting the tower?

reply to post by Crakeur


When you say you saw the second hit , did you saw clearly a comercial jetliner?

Then , we agree that it was a comercial plane that striked the towers ,
then what was the purpose of the other plaines that were saw in that morning.

Like the one that was filmed circling the towers(in the first video that Breifne posted you can see it at 4:30) the white elefanth ,
and the one that wasflying low and made no sound reported by a witness in the video i posted at 3:50 , or has another witness says after
the hit " there are still things flying in the air".

Originally posted by Swampfox46_1999
reply to post by Niobis

 

So how come there are numerous other videos and still pics that show the JET hitting the tower?

You obviously haven't been paying attention. For the third time, I will say it again-every video(at least every one I've seen) that features a plane has inconsistencies or other problems. Pictures are harder to expose as being fake, but they also have some odd inconsistencies. Take these two for example(one of which is a still from the video posted on page 1):




Obviously, those are two very different airplanes.

Originally posted by Niobis
:




Obviously, those are two very different airplanes.

How so? Bearing in mind the completely different perspectives
offered by both images.

I don't see anything as blatantly obvious as you seem to believe.

reply to post by pmexplorer


One is black, the other is blue and white. Note in the second image, the wings and tail of the plane are white. But in the first image the wings and tail are black, gray at best. Both are in full sunlight so there's no way a white can appear black, or vice versa. No matter the perspective.

Edit: instead of making a new post...more inconsistent photos of Flight 175:

911review.org...
plane2.0catch.com...

[edit on 6-8-2008 by Niobis]

No, not like an aluminum can. More or less like a car. We've all seen the car crash tests in which the rear end of the car crumples. Of course, a plane travels at much faster speeds, but the size and weight would be balanced and therefore similar to a high speed car crash. No 'melting' into the building. The nose, fuselage and wings would be annihilated upon impact. We could expect the engines to go inside, but not the entire plane as we see in the above video.

The WTC exterior was not a solid wall - it was a lattice of thin steel
sections bolted together. Like jamming a pencil through a screen.

Unlike cars aircraft do not have "crumple zones" designed to crush and
absorb energy and prevent being transferred to passenger compartment.

The fuselage contains the keel beam - which is the strongest most massive
piece on an aircraft. It provides structural strength for the whole
aircraft and supports the cargo and cabin floors. Directly behind the
nose is the nose wheel and further back the main landing gear - again
massive and heavy pieces of equipment. The wings contain heavy spars
and ribs. While the wing tips - parts outboard of the engines are made of
lightweight materials dont have to be because are not structural . The
wing box - section between engines where attaches to fuselage is again
heavy and high strength. The aircraft in a sense is a battering ram
which given sufficent velocity will knock a hole in almost anything short
of a concrete bunker.

Originally posted by Crakeur
reply to post by Niobis

 

this pretty much proves my point. it doesn't matter how many people say they saw it, the folks that don't want to believe will find new and interesting ways to prove to themselves that everyone else is crazy.

I will, again, invite anyone to walk around the streets of manhattan and ask us locals what they saw that day. every time one of them tells you their story, you go right ahead and tell them that they didn't really see it. we didn't see the buildings fall either. we didn't witness anything. big giant optical illusion.


this is why the real issues surrounding 9/11, things like "how was it that the government failed so miserably in their attempts to protect us and how is it that the white house (clinton and bush at a minimum) didn't know more and do more in the years, months, weeks, and days prior to the event to protect us?'

instead we get a sleight of hand stealing our attention away from the real issue.

the plane was green and kept fading in and out and there was a woman in a white robe with big breakfast rolls over her ears kneeling down and aiming the plane at the buildings.

keep focusing on the inane and let the real issues get brushed under the rug

Well let's stop beating around the bush and get to the heart of the matter then, Mr. Site Admin.

If there were SO MANY freaking witnesses to the 'first plane hitting', then why did FOX/CNN/MSNBC report that a CESSNA TYPE PLANE had aparently hit the WTC up until 8:59AM? Why then, Mr. "I Saw It Happen', did they give the ALL CLEAR on live television while thousands of americans were burning/bleeding to death both in the tower and in the streets? Why did the NYSE even sound the opening bell on 9/11? And finally... why did FOX/CNN/MSNBC ditch their stock footage from 8:47AM until 8:59AM and replace it with BS faked footage and clips from other networks?

For your viewing pleasure

Part 2

SOMEBODY is fibbing. Did you happen to see the nose of the 'plane' plow through 200+ feet of concrete and steel edgewise and emerge on the other side unscathed? I don't think you're doing much for the credibility of ATS... or is that merely a foregone conclusion?

9/11 Taboo Part 1
9/11 Taboo Part 2
9/11 Taboo Part 3
9/11 Taboo Part 4

reply to post by HaveSeen4Myself


you're right. I saw nothing. I wasn't staring out my window in horror, frantically trying to reach my wife to tell her to stay home. my friends weren't facing the building or, worse, in the building. I don't know anyone who was on the street that morning when the first plane came barrelling overhead either. All of the folks downtown, the firemen, the cops and the general public all saw a hologram and nothing really happened that day. the buildings are actually still there too. Doug Irgang, Tom Kelly and Joe Maio are all actually alive and well and hiding from their wives or girlfriend and, in Joe's case, he's hiding from the child his wife was pregnant with when 9/11 didn't happen.

you guys, with your holograms, you no plane theories and other such utter nonsense are distracting the public from the real issues of how it was allowed to happen. keep talking smoke and mirrors and let the real story, the real problem and the real potential for it to happen again get brushed under the rug while you chase windmills.

good work there. no point trying to get to the heart of the matter when you can muddle the area up so badly that nobody will want to even discuss it anymoe.

again, I simply say this. come to New York City and tell the cops, the firemen and the rest of us common folk, that we didn't see the plane(s) hit. I'm serious. I want to walk the street with you, watch the reactions you get. Hell, here's something you can do as well. Stand on any corner in NYC and watch the people. Whenever planes fly by, there's always a couple of folks who look up and watch it go. In the backs of our minds we know it is bound to happen again.

oh, wait, those are holograms too.

nevermind.

reply to post by Crakeur


OH , sorry i tought this was a conspiracy forum , my mistake.

reply to post by dracodie


it is a conspiracy forum. I'm giving you truth and you guys are giving me science fiction. the no plane theory isn't a conspiracy, it is an attempt by people to distract from the real issue of how the Bush administration, and the Clinton camp before him, overlooked or ignored all the warning signs and how nothing was done to stop this.

that's the conspiracy. that thousands of people who spent the better part of the morning staring up at the sky managed to all hallucinate a passenger plane flying into the tower is downright moronic.

all of these people who post these videos made months and years after the fact are missing the one major factor. thousands of witnesses standing around staring at the buildings from everywhere. NYC, NJ, Brooklyn. From the streets, from the windows of their buildings, from the rooftops, from the river, from the on ramps to the tunnel.

there were people everywhere watching from every angle. a bigger conspiracy, in my mind, is who is behind the no plane nonsense. it would surprise me to find that there was some politically backed group out there feeding people this garbage with the hopes that people will, eventually, stop caring about the how as in how did the white house (bush and clinton before him) fail to see the signs? how did they allow this to happen? you can post a million videos but I don't need them. I can close my eyes and in a second I am back on the 38th floor of my building (I moved to a lower floor 3 years ago - needed more space), my head out the window, facing south, staring at the two towers. I can stand on my terrace on 57th street, several miles north and, if I close my eyes and take a few deep breaths, I can still smell that smell that was noticeable as the pit burned. I can walk along 5th avenue and I can still see the stores all closed. merchandise gone from the windows, replaced by candles and signs and american flags and the streets are still quiet and abandoned. several people, strangers, walking together for the sake of comfort, wandering from store to store, many crying. I can still see the missing signs posted everywhere, looking for the lost. I can still see the newscasters interviewing people, days after the event, delusional in their hopes that the missing will be found.

and yes, I can still see the smoke from the tower, I can still see the second plane coming in from the river, I can see the plane. I can see the building. I can see the plane. I can see the building. I can see the fire and smoke and every time I see a plane in the sky I watch it for a moment longer than normal. every time I hear more than one siren I wonder if this is it all over again. when the anti-terror teams run their drills outside my office I am not comforted. I am reminded of the past. when they raise the alert somewhere other than NYC (it always remains the same here) I am reminded. When a bus blows up in the middle east or a mosque is attacked in Iraq I am reminded.

for those of us that were here and that SAW it all, we will never, ever shake the images. so please, don't do what amounts to telling me (and the thousands of other folks who SAW the planes hit) I am crazy and then wonder why I take offense.

Remember this. The plot took years. there were clues along the way. Clinton had the chance to take the leaders out and wimped out. Bush and his crew failed to follow up on the warnings and allowed the tragedy to take place.

How the hell did Clinton not take out the target when the opportunity arose? How the hell did his administration not make it clearer to the president that this group was going to become a far bigger problem. How did the Bush administration fail to heed the same advice? How did the Bush administration so badly muddle the system that nobody was watching over us. How did the Bush administration allow the events to happen and why did they wait until three planes had hit before taking out the 4th? Who is now behind the plan to divert the public's attention from these real, worthwhile questions by planting the seed of insanity in the truth movement but claiming such outlandish things as no planes hit the towers?


excuse me if I seem a bit put off by all of this but the idea that someone is telling me I didn't see what I saw is the equivalent of calling me either crazy or a liar and I take offense to that. you sit there, at your computer, looking at videos. Unfortunately, I have my memories. Horrific as they are, they are more accurate than the youtube clips being fed to you by some political group.

I'm done here.

Come on everybody...calm down. It has been so long since this happened plus a war has been raging because of it. The "powers that be" will never tell us everything, and you know that! The truth may come out 50yrs from now, but I am sure no sooner. Just have reverance for the people who died on 9/11 and the war. Watch your government closley. you know, things are a lot different since then and people are more aware than they have ever been. The "powers that be" know that.

reply to post by Crakeur



That is one of the most stirring posts Ive ever read on here.
One can only imagine the shock, awe and terror that witnessing such
an invent would invoke on the human mind and body.

I fully concur Stephen, some of the claims made on here in threads like these are so absurd it is beyond a joke.
There was a time when I would get taken in by these youtube merchants
with their slickly produced conspiracy laden videos but once the smoke has cleared, pardon the turn of phrase, there is no substantial proof only misleading conjecture and deliberately convoluted facts.

Those who lost their lives on that terrible day in our history deserve justice but while we continue to entertain such baseless theories the day the real perpetrators (as alluded to by Crakeur) are brought to account moves a further step away.



[edit on 7-8-2008 by pmexplorer]

As usual, none of my questions were addressed. I have never claimed that 'holograms' were used on 9/11. I want to know how a jumbo jet can scream over NYC at RUSH HOUR and be mistaken for Cessna. I want to know why the NYSE opened on 9/11. I want to know why the 'all clear' was given on live television as many of our fellow citizens were in dire need of medical attention. I want to know why the news anchors were coaxing stock brokers into work for the 'heavy trading day' right after the first attack.

But nevermind me. Just keep wallowing in your self pity. Go ahead and put the blame on Islamic Extremists if that makes you feel better. Some of us are too emotionally invested in 9/11 to see things for what they really are. In my opinion, a conspiracy site is not the place for you.

Originally posted by HaveSeen4Myself
I want to know how a jumbo jet can scream over NYC at RUSH HOUR and be mistaken for Cessna.

ask the actor in the video.

Originally posted by HaveSeen4Myself
I want to know why the NYSE opened on 9/11. .

let's see, prior to fully understanding the magnitude of what's happening, let's just close down the single most important world market and possibly create a panic where one doesn't exist.
good plan

Originally posted by HaveSeen4Myself
I want to know why the 'all clear' was given on live television as many of our fellow citizens were in dire need of medical attention.

huh? here's what I remember living in nyc and not sitting on my recliner watching. calls went out for blood. there were lines everywhere with people waiting to give blood for what the anchors here were assuming would be a shortage given all the wounded they were expecting. I can introduce you to a very good friend of mine who was first on one of those lines and was on the news here. they were, by the way, eventually turned away when they realized there wouldn't be too many survivors.

Originally posted by HaveSeen4Myself
I want to know why the news anchors were coaxing stock brokers into work for the 'heavy trading day' right after the first attack.

most brokers and wall street folks I know were already at work when things went down. when the first tower was hit, folks NOT in the other tower didn't leave. they watched from their window or they watched on tv. when the second plane hit they all split. I can introduce you to several folks who had this experience.

folks in the second tower to get hit were leaving the building when they were given an all clear to return and, for the most part, they didn't go back to their offices. had they done this, the death toll would have been far greater. Tom Kelly went back up. Not to work but to make sure his trading crew didn't go back up. Tom Kelly sent several people down the stairs who had started back up. Tom Kelly died a hero.

Originally posted by HaveSeen4Myself
Just keep wallowing in your self pity.

Huh? me? self pity. that's rich. thank you for that. it was most appreciated.

Originally posted by HaveSeen4Myself
Go ahead and put the blame on Islamic Extremists if that makes you feel better.

how many times did I say it in my previous posts.
I blame the Clinton and Bush Administrations for doing nothing. Hell, I blame Reagan for pulling troops out of lebanon after the barracks attack too. Our protection comes from the white house. they failed us. doesn't matter if it was islamic fundamentalists or teletubbies. we should have been protected.

Originally posted by HaveSeen4Myself
Some of us are too emotionally invested in 9/11 to see things for what they really are.

some of you are paid to distort the discussion so as to avoid the real issues. WHY WAS THIS ALLOWED TO HAPPEN. WHY DIDN'T THE WHITE HOUSE DO MORE TO STOP IT.

Originally posted by HaveSeen4Myself
In my opinion, a conspiracy site is not the place for you.

wow, you topped the self pity comment. very well done.

I think it is safe to say that my place here is well established.

Originally posted by HaveSeen4Myself
As usual, none of my questions were addressed. I have never claimed that 'holograms' were used on 9/11. .

The ''cessna'' claims to the best of my knowledge were quite simply the result of the earliest reports which filtered through to the news stations.

I live in a completely different part of the world and like most I remember how that day unfolded as if it was yesterday and I can recall the haziness
surrounding the initial reports.
Here's a hypothetical situation,say there was a major crash or pile up on the highway involving a number of vehicles, and a few people are killed.
This despite being a tragic situation becomes news, obviously the witnesses to this event know what happened as they were on the scene but the radio station or tv station nearby might get a call,email or text message giving the minimum detail in order for that piece of information to become news. So you turn on your tv and you get breaking news, followed by further reports followed by a reporter live at the scene.
My point is that on 9/11 there was firstly an incident, followed by confusion,
followed by panic, shock, fear etc etc. The initial reports were that an aircraft may have struck one of the twin towers, the natural reaction to such news was that this was an accident, and as the information filtered through, it became clear that we were dealing with something much much more serious. So please stop trying to make a mountain out of a molehill and use your
common sense.

Why wouldn't the NYSE open on 9/11???
It was a day of business just like any other working day in Manhattan.
What is your point?

"Just keep wallowing in your self pity."

I find this to be a deeply worrying remark, who exactly is wallowing in
their self pity?
You should really have a good think about the implications of what you are typing before you click on the 'post' button.
I have no doubt there are many here who would feel quite offended by your remark.
If you were truly 'emotionally invested in 9/11" you would cease posting such
baseless topics or at least offer some irrefutable proof of your ridiculous claims.

Originally posted by pmexplorer
Why wouldn't the NYSE open on 9/11???
It was a day of business just like any other working day in Manhattan.
What is your point?

my wife works somewhat close to where the towers stood and her offices were closed for 2 weeks, if my memory serves me right. she got a call a couple of days after the 11th, from one of her clients in PA. they wanted a status report. she told them the office was closed and the client was confused. he said something to the effect of "the whole world can't be put on hold" or something.

business as usual outside the city.