Going "Green" = People Must Die! Why?

I have heard so much concerning Global Warming/Climate Change and going "green." What I find interesting are the things I am hearing people say when the subject is brought up in social situations.

I was having a conversation yesterday when all of a sudden the person told me we need to be as "green" as possible and what horrible creatures human beings were and the population needed to be reduced because we were a scourge on the planet.

I couldn't believe I was hearing this from a person I have known for a while as a spiritual person. He is not the only person I have heard this from.

Why must the population be controlled? Who are we to insist that this happen? Who decides who stays and who goes? How does this "control" occur?

It seems to me that the idea of population control is spin coming from very greedy people who want it all for themselves. Why can't humans flourish together? Why are we falling for this nonsense?

How did carbon, the basis for life on Earth, become a toxin in so many people's eyes? CO2 is needed for life to exist here on this planet. Plenty of organisms need CO2 to create oxygen for humans to live. CO2 levels aren't even close to toxic levels, but I am supposed to believe that this is the cause and root of everything evil and unholy? Carbon tax? Who does this tax go to and how will it be spent? Cleaning up the Earth of useless humans perhaps?

I think that we are being manipulated into thinking that humans are ruining the planet and they must die. Oh, not ALL humans must die, mind you. Only the ones who can not contribute to the beauty of the world. The worthless humans must be removed. Resources saved for those who are worthy and enlightened.

"Insignificant humans must be exterminated so that the Earth can be full of peace and harmony. Surely a new age of wonder would exist afterwards!" Such thoughts flow from globalists mouths like a cancer.

Sounds sick and disgusting to me. Everyone is significant on this planet. I don't think that anyone should have to die "for the good of the planet."

We are all worthy of being here on this world of wonder we call Earth.

Are humans so terrible? Why must populations be reduced? Will you include yourself and your family in this reduction?

When animals overpopulate an area (which does happen, especially now because humans have eliminated many of the natural predators), the weak starve to death until the population is reduced to what the area can support.

The same will eventually happen to us if the human population continues to increase. The Earth's resources are finite, and there is only so much land that we can grow crops or raise livestock on.

In fact, people are already starving to death in some countries because they can't raise enough food to support their population.

I'm not in favor of killing people, but to put it bluntly humans need to stop having so many kids. And I think that that is what many people mean by "population reduction." Not that people who are already alive need to die, but that the rate of population growth (i. e. reproduction) needs to drop to where we are only replacing the people who die, or even a little less than that.

Unless you'd like us to go "soylent" green?

I think going green = avoiding greedy corporations. Mind you Al Gore's suggestion that Global Warming is real is total BS. I used to believe partially of what he said. He mentioned that we are the one's to blame for climate change.

We are just a small small portion of this man made climatic change. But at least his message gives us a chance to become more efficient for a change.

I'm now influenced to get a wind generator.

Originally posted by Heike
I'm not in favor of killing people, but to put it bluntly humans need to stop having so many kids. And I think that that is what many people mean by "population reduction." Not that people who are already alive need to die, but that the rate of population growth (i. e. reproduction) needs to drop to where we are only replacing the people who die, or even a little less than that.

Unless you'd like us to go "soylent" green?

I don't think that people who die need to be turned into food either. Kuru comes to mind. Not good for anyone.

People not having as many kids? Who decides who gets to have a child or more than one child? Would this be for everyone? In your scenario, what would happen if a women gets pregnant when she already has a child? If the child is aborted, isn't this killing?

This happening through a natural process is one thing, but helping it along is something completely different.

I am even starting to wonder if famine among humans is helped along by greed. Think about where famines occur on our planet. If you look closely at the regions, they are not allowed to industrialize to help themselves.

I'm not convinced yet that human famine can't be avoided in other ways. Granted resources are finite, but how much food goes to waste each year? If they were industrialized, they could pay for their own food if not grow it themselves.

There is always more than one solutions to problems. Thanks for the reply

Originally posted by Shrukin89
I think going green = avoiding greedy corporations. Mind you Al Gore's suggestion that Global Warming is real is total BS.

I agree that this is what green SHOULD mean.

I'm now influenced to get a wind generator.

off topic, but I have been looking into this too. I think that if everyone was able to be self sufficient, the world would be a better place.

It is relatively cheap to make or buy a low RPM wind generator.

.. but back to the subject...

Thanks for your reply, Shrukin89

[edit on 3-8-2008 by xman_in_blackx]

It is the psychopathic wetdream of the cabal, and has been carried forth in Africa, and the middle east and numerous places throughout the past century. They believe they have the right to own the very seeds of plants, though everything actually belongs to everyone equally. Canada has less than 0% population growth, only immigration adds to our numbers, most developed countries with a middle class, infrastructure, and healthcare have very little growthrates, and birthcontrol isn't needed. It doesn't matter if one person is has 5 children, in Canada, because 40% of the women don't have children at all.

The answer has always been, supporting democracies throughout the world, and an international health care. Every country should have been assisted towards development and democracy. However, the truth is, the cabal, have always dismantled any attempts at democracies and quickly entrenched ugly barbaric, anti female dictatorships in their place.
There is no population problem, as such, because the solution has always existed. We vote in related bloodline puppets for these cabal, so we are also responsible by our political niavete. But if one more hair on one more sovereign and sacred child in any part of this world is harmed in any way....!!!!!!!!!!! I believe we have a duty to wake up! Freedom is a responsibility, and a sacred obligation. Its like holding up a light, and sharing it with the world. Our leaders, in our so-called free countries, have used it to enslave and murder countless innocents.

Population reduction is an easy solution, but it's fundamentally flawed and its main proponents are driven by personal politics more than anything else.

It's flawed because, for starters, it fails to take into account the fact that every generation of human beings invents new technology and creates new solutions to old problems. Snuffing out billions of people means no new inventions from them, no new ideas - and that is tantamount to species suicide.

Also, it's not population size that's screwing us over so badly right now, it's population distribution and cultural taboos against 'dirty work' or 'dirty living' - we've got millions upon millions of people concentrated in small geographic areas (cities), and the toll on the environment is made that much worse. There are vast tracts of perfectly good land available in this country and in other countries, but nobody wants to live there because there are no jobs, no conveniences, etc..

One way to overcome that is to create the jobs in a context that supports the survival of the community - namely the construction and operation of factory farming and energy production infrastructure. These are capital-intensive programs, and that's unfortunate, because the people with capital are, by and large, the ones who stand to gain the most by preserving the status quo.

Few people want to work on farms, or even live near them. The same men who will gladly spend 12-15 hours at the office, working at the computer until they can't see straight, will balk at the idea of steering a plow in a field for an afternoon. Somehow they think it's beneath them. I can think of no more noble profession than farmer/fisherman/shepherd, but we seem to have gotten it all backwards.

The class system of ancient Japan is a fine example. On paper, at least, the most noble professions were farming and tradesman. The least noble were politician and salesman. America is the exact opposite, just look at the pay scales in modern corporations. The men who do the least (CEOs) make the most, and the men who do the most (Janitors, mailroom) make the least.

Consider this - if people farmed and raised livestock where they live, we wouldn't have to truck food in from Mexico and California to feed ourselves in the Northeast. Unfortunately, nobody wants to work the land for a living, and nobody wants to get dirty, and the result is an unsustainable system. Our economy is set up in such a way that we discourage people from producing food, and encourage them to pursue non-productive professions (lawyer being the prime example).

If the way we're living now is progress, I'd rather be a primitive.

Population reduction is unnecessary and ill-advised - it's only appealing to those who are too lazy to come up with better solutions, and of course those who have an ulterior motive (we need to kill off a few billion people to save the planet - but let's start with the blacks).

We don't need to kill off people, we need to spread out a little, utilize new technologies in agriculture and energy to make renewable resources available to more people, start to think long-term by creating largely self-sustaining communities, and get over our cultural bias against manual labor.

/rant

Global Warming is the ultimate power control religion. It has several parallels to Judaism, Christianity, and Islam.

In place of Yahweh, God, or Allah, we have Gaia, the spirit of the earth.
In place of the coming Messiah, Jesus, or Muhammed, we have Al Gore.
In place of Satan, Satan+demons, and the Infidels, we have the Corporations and conservatives.

All must bow to the will of Gaia. This will is only expressed through the prophets (agenda-driven scientists) who alone know the will of Gaia. The lives of all those who choose to inhabit the land of Gaia must be purified (go green) or be sacrificed for the greater good of Gaia.

Those who lead this religion are greedy and will stop at nothing to advance their own wealth and power, all the time declaring how holy (green) they really are. They control the masses in their congregation through intimidation, deceit, and law. Anyone remember the Inquisition?

The big advantage to this particular religion is that nothing is written in old books that cannot be changed. Everything is fluid and can be spun around to fit the needs and desires of those at the top of the religion. Also, since it is by definition world-wide, the potential congregation is the population of the planet, not just of one nation or even a group of nations.

Notice, if you will, how fervently Gaia followers attempt to destroy any vestige of Christianity. Why? Simple. It is a competing religion. I actually see little difference between the most fervent Gaia followers and the radical Islamic terrorists. Both wish to destroy any competing religion.

TheRedneck

Originally posted by mystiq
It is the psychopathic wetdream of the cabal, and has been carried forth in Africa, and the middle east and numerous places throughout the past century. They believe they have the right to own the very seeds of plants, though everything actually belongs to everyone equally. I believe we have a duty to wake up! Freedom is a responsibility, and a sacred obligation. Its like holding up a light, and sharing it with the world. Our leaders, in our so-called free countries, have used it to enslave and murder countless innocents.

Wow. I thought I would be flamed alive for this post, but I am surprised that there are people that agree that something is wrong with the current ideologies that are spread through so called "green" people. Brilliant reply, Mystiq

Originally posted by WyrdeOne
Population reduction is an easy solution, but it's fundamentally flawed and its main proponents are driven by personal politics more than anything else.

It's flawed because, for starters, it fails to take into account the fact that every generation of human beings invents new technology and creates new solutions to old problems. Snuffing out billions of people means no new inventions from them, no new ideas - and that is tantamount to species suicide.

I agree. It seems that group thought is so damned popular right now and no one likes to speak up. Leaders ask their minions ot think outside of the box and the they reign them in telling them that out of the box thinking is great... as long as the thought lie with the... BOX! WTF! I see this every day in corporate America. People have a right to think for themselves. Thoughts are commodities not something that should be suppressed.


We don't need to kill off people, we need to spread out a little, utilize new technologies in agriculture and energy to make renewable resources available to more people, start to think long-term by creating largely self-sustaining communities, and get over our cultural bias against manual labor.

/rant

20 years ago, I couldn't wait to go into the city and make something of myself, not realizing that being self sufficient was one of the most important things. Once you head into a city, you are made to be dependent on others for almost everything. Just the way greedy people like it.

They are making so damned difficult to be self sufficient anymore and no one sees this. be green and enslave yourself rather than living within your means and being FREE.

I am so happy to see that I am not the only one here that thinks what's up is down and what's down is up. Something is so very wrong and we need to WAKE UP!

Originally posted by TheRedneck
Global Warming is the ultimate power control religion. It has several parallels to Judaism, Christianity, and Islam.

I hadn't thought of it that way, but I don't have to stretch my mind to far to see there is some truth to it.

In the end, it is about Power, Control, and GREED.

Originally posted by xman_in_blackx

It seems to me that the idea of population control is spin coming from very greedy people who want it all for themselves. Why can't humans flourish together? Why are we falling for this nonsense?

I know! I've even heard of some people in the USA object top their town's population increasing by 50% due to immigrants from outside the of the USA. How selfish is that? Surely we should all be sharing what we have, and be happy to have less in order to sustain a greater population?

Originally posted by Essan
Surely we should all be sharing what we have, and be happy to have less in order to sustain a greater population?

I'm not sure I understand your question. How about rephrasing or an example?

Originally posted by Essan
How selfish is that? Surely we should all be sharing what we have, and be happy to have less in order to sustain a greater population?

I am unashamedly a capitalist, not a socialist or communist. This means that I get to keep what I have earned by working for it, and you get to keep what you have worked for.

On a personal level, sure I share eggs and produce from my garden with my neighbors and coworkers. On a larger scale, I don't appreciate 1/4 of my income being taken from me to support people who don't want work to support themselves. Supposedly I live in a capitalist country, but it looks less and less like one every day through my eyes.

If I work harder than you, or have taken the time to learn more valuable skills, why should you get to have the same lifestyle I do? Share and share alike works okay in kindergarten, but on a larger scale it's communism. Or at least socialism.

Anyway, give me one good reason why MORE people is a good thing?

Originally posted by xman_in_blackx
People not having as many kids? Who decides who gets to have a child or more than one child? Would this be for everyone?

Sorry, I didn't make myself clear. I don't mean going like China and enforcing it by legal means. I meant using media, communications, and education to convince people that having fewer children is a good thing. Maybe people could get a tax break for not having kids. (You know, kinda like farmers get paid for not growing crops? ) Maybe every year all the people who didn't have any children get entered into a special lottery for free. I don't know, there are endless possibilities for positive reinforcement for NOT having children.

Right now society and the media are all weighted to how wonderful it is to have children and grandchildren, and the joy of kids and the celebrations and congratulations when people have children. Just turn that around, that's all. Oh, and maybe make people responsible for supporting the children they have? That'd be peachy!

I have lost all respect for scientists ,they follow the Govt. guidelines ,that stick to the Agenda of the plan laid out by senile coots. They garner lucrative grants
and dish up what the politician prescribes ,all to prove to the masses the next fleecing of the sheep will be willingly submitted to .

Then there is the legitimate science that is silenced and laughed at by the masses ,as if to say the author was a cook. this scientist loses all faith
is crushed by the system and replaced when he breaks down.

The system doesn't care about credentials they spit the Scientist out and break them, if the so much as dares to suggest the truth to the masses.

there are those like Prince Phillipe who claim there is too many people to feed, while he strolls in his nature preserve and his bank accounts are hefty and full .

the shelves are laid bare in the markets so all can see that it is so and then
there are the grubbers who for money make Bio weapons to attack races creeds and colors.
they will extract the essence of life in the death of others
and in the twinkling of an eye the plan set in motion so that
only those that look like them will survive the cull of the ages
Oh they will keep remnants and traces to put in their zoos
so people can gawk at the Bio diversity that the lords of the world
saved from the plagues.
no one will ever suspect that the lords of the earth were really demons
in the end.

Originally posted by Heike

If I work harder than you, or have taken the time to learn more valuable skills, why should you get to have the same lifestyle I do? Share and share alike works okay in kindergarten, but on a larger scale it's communism. Or at least socialism.

Anyway, give me one good reason why MORE people is a good thing?

I am not suggesting that we turn socialist. I am suggesting that we go back to morals and ethics in business. Currently, we have a system where the main objective is to make money. PERIOD. That's it. That in itself has a downfall. A company that doesn' care about consumers or people will eventually turn into something else: FASCIST.

When you have morals and ethics about what you are doing in business, it all works and comes together because the consumer is empowered and feels great about the relationship. The corporation should make a good product at a good price and take care of his employees and make a steady dollar over the long haul. that is good for everyone. Jobs stay here, products are great and not shabby. You get happy companies and happy consumers.

Like I said before. there are always more solutions than the extremes.

If you have companies who provide plenty of jobs, and you have a larger population, you have a greater consumer base to purchase your products. If the founding father of the US were against larger populations, the US Constitution would have never been written. They believed in balance of power and so do I. Capitalism has that balance of power. Fascism does not.

A hard days work for a good days pay. No free rides and self sufficiency. Someone has to make and sell the solar and the wind generators right?

Just because you have more people doesn't mean that the Earth will come to an end.

Originally posted by Heike

Sorry, I didn't make myself clear. I don't mean going like China and enforcing it by legal means. I meant using media, communications, and education to convince people that having fewer children is a good thing. Maybe people could get a tax break for not having kids.

I am not suggesting you are out to kill people for your beliefs, I am just making a point that there is a serious issue when we drill down on some of the ideologies that are sprayed everywhere.

Some people have told me "well you have to break some eggs to make an omlette." I guess it's cool unless you are one of the eggs.

Things are not always what they seem and there are a lot of hidden agendas that obfuscated on purpose. We need to think through logically what we do to keep the so called status quo. Our country is becoming more fascist every day and it frightens me. I just hope I have the moral and ethical fortitude to stand up to them so that it goes no further. I hope we all do.

Again, thanks for your participation in this thread. It is nice to have discussions without name calling and derailing. It is through this discussion that we can get beneath the surface of what is going on today.

This is one of the things that makes ATS great. There are a lot of people here who have wisdom. It is such a breath of fresh air.

[edit on 3-8-2008 by xman_in_blackx]

Originally posted by solo1
I have lost all respect for scientists ,they follow the Govt. guidelines ,that stick to the Agenda of the plan laid out by senile coots.

Perhaps some of them have forgotten what the scientific method really is.

I also notice some professional debunkers/skeptics have forgotten what the scientific method is too.

Cherry picked evidence is not the whole picture. Too many try to place the square peg into the round hole and think there is nothing wrong with that if it pays their bills.

I used to do research for a company dealing with music purchasing trends. I have never in my life seen such fudged numbers. I was told that no matter the sample size you will get the same data. REALLY? They were misinformed. You can miss a lot of interesting trends if the sample size is too small.

I guess they never learned that the smaller the sample size, the greater the error.

I guess what I am saying is that hubris causes some of this.


[edit on 3-8-2008 by xman_in_blackx]

My second post has disappeared. If it suddenly shows up, I apologize for saying this twice. But, in response to the concept of free-enterprise capitalism, I have a bit to say. Scandinavian countries aren't actually, technically social democracies, though we perceive them as such. They have a higher form of democracy, proportional democracy. Unlike our winner take all, where in Canada, Gordon Campbell pulled off a majority government on roughly a 40% vote both in his riding and provincially, whereas nearly 60% voted ndp and green, proportional democracy fills seats with people you have voted for percentage wise. In that system, women suddenly enter the political system in numbers. Fundamentally women are not dog-eat dog winners take all and oh well if there are winners and losers and children not eating kind of people; that is, not unless they have been severely brainwashed by misinformation for years. Scandinavian countries shine their lights, even when the more conservative parties are elected, due to their system tied into substantive equality. Thats the kind of equality where you're not just told: oh yeah, you're free, now go and starve!. No, thats the kind of equality that equalizes peoples differing situations. Consequently, they have the highest standards of living in the world, incredible economies, wonderful business records, look after their own with honor, extend fairness and justice in the world by their policies, and have an almost non-existent murder rate.
Female energy is exactly what is missing in the rest of the world, and is exactly what is repressed by many countries, and is constantly put down by the cabal in our so-called free countries as well. As to the concept of free-enterprise, I call our system an illegal pyramid monopoly mascarading as a free-enterprise. If it were truly free-enterprise, we would be buying from each other, with almost non-existant unemployement amongst employables, and have a large tax purse that we would intelligently expect to see boomerang back into our communities to produce civilized and beneficial and advanced win/win solutions, because otherwise someone truly is stealing your money for their own nefarious schemes!