Disgusting election taints ATS... Stand up and shut up!

I agree with Krazy Jethro on this issue. I gotten to where I skip all political threads these days. Anything that says Obama or McCain doesn't even temp me.

The topics have become less about the issues, and those that do talk about the issues get buried, by the ones about personal habits.

It's difficult to take a thread seriously when you have to wipe the spittle off the screen to read it.

Originally posted by solo1
Thats why America ends up with people that cannot string 2 sentences together as president.

Because the losing side of all the arguments rolls this out

lets not talk about it let the voters decide.

put them all on ignore an talk about fat kids and health care.

If someone starts a political thread do not respond thats your prerogative
why do you feel you need to subvert every one into doing the same.
I actually get a kick out of the responses

I disagree. America ends up with people that can not string 2 sentences together because critical thinking, providing evidence, constructing a reasoned argument are taught poorly and unsupported culturally (especially when the media runs huge stories in small time slots and when punditry is waltzing around in the form of news).

This isn't about winning or losing, but rather the attempt to shine a light on the rampant lack of CONTENT in posts and threads.

I certainly appreciate your tone though. Very constructive, although I think that adds to my point.

BTW, what's the fat kids and healthcare thing about?

reply to post by Riposte


Stifle what debate? Which of the candidates is the Antichrist this week? That debate? Or which one kicks puppies? Those sort of debates?

No where in the opening post was there one hint of partisanship. He was simply suggesting, and a good one, I might add; that we need more level headed debate on the important topics of this election cycle.

The way I see it, is that the electoral mudslinging that goes on every 4 years has become so commonplace that people think that is how an electoral race is actually run.

The media and the candidates become so obsessed with slinging mud, that the real process of policies and reasoned debate about them becomes lost in the personality contest.

Something along the lines of "Obama has great idea's about repairing the medical system"

Answer: "Yeah but his pastor was a nutter, and hates white people so his policy is irrelevant to me"

It's gone the same way here in the UK and, I suspect, other countries.

The cult of the personality has taken real political debate out of the equation as people look for their information in small, bite sized chunks that are media friendly - it's very easy to run a one minute piece on the news denigrating someones personality, it's far harder to run sensible op-ed pieces providing a critique of the pro's and cons of a candidates stance on various issues.

We can place some of the blame at the feet of the media, but we must also blame ourselves for allowing them to do this.

Whats wrong with people who have no avatars? Anyway yes...this election is indeed a hot topic..people are getting worked up very easily...lots of tension...

Originally posted by intrepid

What does music or fat kids have to do with this topic? KJ was referring to the lack of intelectual content in the Decision 2008. Mudslinging, innuendo, in some cases out right BS. Judging by the stars and flags he's not alone in thinking this.

This is what YOU want to discuss?

After reading KJ's post, I actually took the time to see what subjects he enjoyed posting to, and what type of threads he had started. Fat Kids and his music happened to be the topics.

I don't particularly find these topics stimulating myself, but I have never started a thread criticizing them, or referring to the posters as being idiotic. It's plain and simple arrogance on the OP's part to do so.

What one person considers reasoned, intellectual discourse, may appear completely inconsequential or boring to someone else. If you don't like or agree with a thread topic, you always have the option to ignore it. Why create a thread criticizing someone else's preferred subject matter?


[edit on 3-8-2008 by LLoyd45]

Originally posted by KrazyJethro
I disagree. America ends up with people that can not string 2 sentences together because critical thinking, providing evidence, constructing a reasoned argument are taught poorly and unsupported culturally (especially when the media runs huge stories in small time slots and when punditry is waltzing around in the form of news).

The problem is rooted in the public school system. Kids are graduating from high school nowadays with 4th grade reading and comprehension levels. The media is simply accomodating the intellectual level of their average consumer. What you're speaking to, is more in the vein of a public speaking class or a logics course.

This isn't about winning or losing, but rather the attempt to shine a light on the rampant lack of CONTENT in posts and threads.

That's your opinion, and your entitled to it. Why not extend the same courtesy to others as well?

If you don't like the content or subject matter of a thread, simply don't read it. I'm not a big fan of UFOs or aliens, but I don't object to someone else discussing the topic.


[edit on 3-8-2008 by LLoyd45]

reply to post by KrazyJethro

I can understand why you would want people to ignore these threads, but that won't work. The reason is because there are members that have formed "gangs" and they promote each other. Some members I know are just sock puppets that only exist to click on stars. They will post one liners to bump the thread over and over, so it will not help for regular members to ignore them.

I think it is better to prove them wrong in an intelligent manner and not fall for the baiting tactics they use to try to get you into trouble. Otherwise, it will continue unabated.

Originally posted by lee anoma
I couldn't agree more with your assessment.

Most of the threads in the Decision 2008 forum are not what I expected. A lot of low brow patently false propaganda being posted...but not just posted to discuss. They are posted by say one member and then in the midst of the first three response they are already on to ANOTHER juvenile piece of trash that they believe will make for some good inaccurate and biased reading.

Sign of a troll?
Posting chain mail propaganda...then another...then another...all within a 15 minute time span.

I'm amazed to see you referring to other posters threads in the Decision 2008 forum as propaganda or trash, considering your own choice of thread topics. A simple glance of your own posts and threads shows you're possibly one of the worst offenders. It's a case of the pot calling the kettle black..

Originally posted by Hal9000
I can understand why you would want people to ignore these threads, but that won't work. The reason is because there are members that have formed "gangs" and they promote each other. Some members I know are just sock puppets that only exist to click on stars. They will post one liners to bump the thread over and over, so it will not help for regular members to ignore them.

I think it is better to prove them wrong in an intelligent manner and not fall for the baiting tactics they use to try to get you into trouble. Otherwise, it will continue unabated.

I agree with you HAL9000. There are certain groups that engage in these behaviors. Take for example your avatar.. "Obama Cybernaut" or your signature. It's an obvious reference to Hillary Clinton.."If you want to be vice you got to play nice". I think both show your own partisanship to one candidate over another.

reply to post by LLoyd45

Now that you mention it, yes I prefer Obama over McCain. What's wrong with that? What does that have to do with what I said?

edit to add: Oh I see, you are accusing me of being in a gang, I guess? I admit I do support other members that I agree with, but I was referring to the members that constantly promote useless threads. That is something I don't do.


[edit on 8/3/2008 by Hal9000]

i agree to a degree with krazy jethro however , we must leave it up to the individual posters to decide what threads they do want to ignore and and let that kill the threads if enough people feel this way, that is fine and a good idea! it will take care of itself, should enough people show some restraint and i hope we do, but the result will also speak to the result of the "ave" ATS'er.

the key is not to let the moderators think we want them to moderate the threads more, we still have a right to post what we like and not be insulted or have condescending posts as reply's to topics other's think are silly or against their belief systems



[edit on 3-8-2008 by cpdaman]

reply to post by KrazyJethro


Thank you, KrazyJethro for this great thread.

It's so hard to participate without being drawn into the muck! It's a line I try to walk, because I do enjoy political discussions, but sometimes it's best to step out for a couple days and sometimes I get drawn down. But reminders like these make my day! So THANK YOU! I needed this just now.

Someone said they don't want to put other people on ignore. And I say, you don't have to. Just use your will to read what they say, laugh and move on. It's hard to do. I don't always have the willpower to do it. I get sucked in. But it's a great challenge!

And I do feel I owe ATS respect. And every time I get "sucked down into the filth" by responding to the bottom feeders on THEIR terms, I am disrespecting ATS. I can respond, on MY terms, using MY standards without feeding the ignorance. And by doing that, I feel I respect ATS.

One more thing. I don't agree that the election itself is disgusting. It's actually a neutral subject. It's the way some people troll, accuse, twist and act with intellectual dishonesty that makes things disgusting.

Thanks again, Jethro. It couldn't have come at a better time for me.

Originally posted by LLoyd45

After reading KJ's post, I actually took the time to see what subjects he enjoyed posting to, and what type of threads he had started. Fat Kids and his music happened to be the topics.

To be clear, I mostly post in political threads. That is what I enjoy discussing.

I don't particularly find these topics stimulating myself, but I have never started a thread criticizing them, or referring to the posters as being idiotic. It's plain and simple arrogance on the OP's part to do so.

Sometimes the overwhelming amount of intellectual dishonest that has been building here recently has become a real drain on the community in my estimation. To repeat, I LIKE discussing politics, and there are many that have vibrant or at least moderately supported debates rather than simply adding to the filth that is the modern day Hollywood election.

Whatever one's opinion or preferred subject matter here is of no relevance to me, but what is, is the extreme influx of those who have NO interest in supporting this site or contributing positively.

In other words, Trolls and Baiters are running rampant.

What one person considers reasoned, intellectual discourse, may appear completely inconsequential or boring to someone else. If you don't like or agree with a thread topic, you always have the option to ignore it. Why create a thread criticizing someone else's preferred subject matter?

You seem to be stuck on the "what" is being done rather than "how" it is being done. Now, "topics" are being used simply to dump incoherent filth.

We've all seen the threads and posts.

These are my thoughts, if people agree, good, wish to discuss, I will gladly, disagree, fine.

reply to post by KrazyJethro


This election doesn't begin to compare with the mudslinging that went on in the last two presidential elections. Mudslinging that didn't stop after the election was over. Rarely a day goes by without a Bush-bashing thread popping up on ATS.

There are other areas of ATS that need the attention more. For example, threads about fighting an alien in your bedroom while your wife watches and throws you your knife?:shk:

i try to be non biased in my posts.
i hate both canidates equally!
but i do know this bothers some people, but in an age of corporate media censorship some people enjoy just making themselves heard. it relieves stress as this country goes down the toilet. i would agree with your plan though, if it bothers you ignore it...

Originally posted by KrazyJethro
To be clear, I mostly post in political threads. That is what I enjoy discussing.

That's great! Instead of criticizing others posts, why not start one of your own? What constitutes filth and intellectual dishonesty is a matter of opinion.

Sometimes the overwhelming amount of intellectual dishonest that has been building here recently has become a real drain on the community in my estimation. To repeat, I LIKE discussing politics, and there are many that have vibrant or at least moderately supported debates rather than simply adding to the filth that is the modern day Hollywood election.

As I stated above, that's your personal opinion. If you feel that substance is lacking in a post, rather than lurking, why not post your own enlightened insights on the subject? Everyone loves a good debate. It's like voting.. If you don't vote, you shouldn't complain about who wins the election.

Whatever one's opinion or preferred subject matter here is of no relevance to me, but what is, is the extreme influx of those who have NO interest in supporting this site or contributing positively.

In other words, Trolls and Baiters are running rampant.

what exactly do you deem as supporting the site? I think everyone here contributes something regardless of what you may think. I'd be intersted in how you define a troll and a baiter. Is it simply someone you disagree with or do you have some other criteria you use?

You seem to be stuck on the "what" is being done rather than "how" it is being done. Now, "topics" are being used simply to dump incoherent filth.

We've all seen the threads and posts.

Once again, this is your opinion. Believe it or not, other people have them too! Their are no right or wrong opinions, just differences of them.

These are my thoughts, if people agree, good, wish to discuss, I will gladly, disagree, fine.

That's a start.

[edit on 3-8-2008 by LLoyd45]

Originally posted by Riposte
reply to post by intrepid

 

Every human being is afflicted by cognitive biases. Your judgment and everyone else's, including the OP's, is clouded by bias. It's important for any debate, and a ridiculous "CALL TO ACTION!" thread such as this one, be properly vetted in order to determine just what exactly is at the heart of the argument.

And this "free" board is making the owner(s) quite a bit of money. Without you and me, this board wouldn't even exist.

Every human being is also afflicted by the requirement to defocate, but I don't do it in your living room.

What the OP is talkign about is the "civility of the debate".

Really, open a thread and let's debate something besides "OBAMAS A SOCIALIST" or "MCCAIN HAS A BLACK CHILD"

OP S&F!

Intrepdi, thanks for doing what you do.


And yes, the Ignore feature works excellently

reply to post by LLoyd45


Classic deflection. Both this post and the one above it. Don't care for the topic attack the messenger. What great debates are made of.

Originally posted by intrepid
reply to post by LLoyd45

 

Classic deflection. Both this post and the one above it. Don't care for the topic attack the messenger. What great debates are made of.

I don't see my posts as attempts at deflection. I was pointing out the obvious hypocrisy in Lee Anoma's comment. As for Hal, I apologized to him for inadvertently including him in my summation.

how does one go about denying ignorance, if they overlook the obvious discrepancies between what a person says, and what they actually do. did you check out the link? If you did, I think you'll agree, he engages in the same behavior which he criticizes here. That's hypocrisy.

PS I like the link.

[edit on 3-8-2008 by LLoyd45]