Obama shifts, says he may back offshore drilling

Originally posted by jetxnet
I can't think of a single one that has made these kinds of shifts. We are not talking about small flip-flops here. Obama makes John Kerry look stable.

These are massive flip-flops that very few, if any, other Presidential Candidates have made in the past.

Please enlighten us with some equivalent large issue flip-flops by other past Candidates.

So, you are what? 16, maybe 18 years old? Come on now, you are picking issues that YOU are sensitive to and making Mountains out of them. At least he is not claiming he invented the internet.

Originally posted by jasonjnelson
reply to post by no name needed

 

so who is lying to? The libs or the centrists? You can't have it both ways my friend, and you even admit, like BH does, that it is by any means neccesary, right?
So tell me, what really is his stance?
Or can you even tell anymore?

There is no need for me to tell you what his stance is. What his stance is on offshore drilling is not an issue for me, so I don't care which way he votes

Furthermore, I would never vote for someone who has attempted suicide like McCain did!

www.usvetdsp.com...

So, you are what? 16, maybe 18 years old? Come on now, you are picking issues that YOU are sensitive to and making Mountains out of them. At least he is not claiming he invented the internet.

They are large and it is you that is trying to minimize the significance of these massive flip-flops.

You conveniently dodged the rest of that post. Typical of Obama supporters when it comes to providing facts and claims to support their arguments.

Oh, and it was Al Gore that claimed he invented the Internet. Another Obama supporter and that is no surprise.

Oh, and lets not watch anymore of Hally Barry's movies because she tried to attempt suicide. She strongly supports Obama.

Give me a break.





[edit on 1-8-2008 by jetxnet]

reply to post by jetxnet


I don't watch Hale Berry movies and I owe you no further comment...I;'m not dodging the rest of your post...just don't have time to go back n forth w/you on every point...much like you dodged my comment about you being 16 to 18 years of age...I'm gonna give ya 18 y.o., since you actually knew that Gore and his "lock-box" claimed the internet thing. However, Gore does not support Obama in any other fashion than that he is democrat and he will support the democrat nominee.

And, yes, suicide is a big issue for me. If concentration camps pushed him that far, then certainly he was brainwashed...and as such...can not be trusted to run this country...unless you want it driven into the ground!

Give it time.
Six months from now the Obama zombies will be saying offshore drilling was Obama's idea.
Expect the media to start promoting this soon.

Okay, I just posted a few days ago in SkyFloating's "Help me decide" thread that I was leaning toward Obama but was disgusted by his stance on off-shore drilling and his support of FISA.

I think his peeps are taking the pulse on this issue and surfing ATS and the rest of the web! For that matter, so is McCain as his recent ads could be copied straight from threads by Flyer's Fan and JetxNet.

[edit on 1/8/2008 by kosmicjack]

reply to post by kosmicjack


And all of this on the same day that the republicans have taken the floor and refuse to leave?

This issue is merely a political one, and Barrack has made it even more a sham by going against his own party...

Originally posted by no name needed
I don't watch Hale Berry movies and I owe you no further comment.....

You don't watch Halle Berry movies? Man, she's SMOKING! I'd hit her like a hobo hitting a ham sandwich.

Originally posted by no name needed.... If concentration camps pushed him that far, then certainly he was brainwashed...

Actually, it was a POW camp. There is a difference. And I don't think it was "brainwashing"; more like just the stress of being tortured.

I hope all those fools who have been arguing that Obama is a "liberal" will now take stock and halt their insipid baloney. With this evidence in hand, they merely look plain ignorant.

reply to post by AntisepticSkeptic


I'm sorry, this doesn't "prove" anything other than the fact that he has NO principles or concrete stances on anything.

His voting record proves he is liberal, his rhetoric proves he is a marxist, and his campaign for Presidency has proven he is a liar as well.

What else is there to see? You all will stand for him just to keep from "losing face" in your own eyes.

Pride cometh before the fall...

I am an Obama supporter and I have to say this did get to me at first. But the wordage was more along the lines that he is thoughtfully considering, not balls to the wall for it.

For me, if I think intelligently about it, I find myself seeing that this man is really going to make his decisions thoughtfully and with as much info. as possible to make these decisions. I heard his words with awareness and concern for the environment. He is showing his leadership in that he thinks about his decisions before he acts.

To be a good leader of a nation one shouldn't stay firmly grounded on issues to the detriment of the country because they are afraid they will be ridiculed for changing their mind; a good leader is one who is cleverly aware and and have foresight into their decisions.

Besides time will only tell what the decision he will make will be.

"'If, in order to get that passed, we have to compromise in terms of a careful, well thought-out drilling strategy that was carefully circumscribed to avoid significant environmental damage - I don't want to be so rigid that we can't get something done,' Obama said."

and

"'I think it's important for the American people to understand we're not going to drill our way out of this problem,' he said. 'It's also important to recognize if you start drilling now you won't see a drop of oil for ten years, which means its not going to have a significant impact on short-term prices. Every expert agrees on that.'"

link

light and love,
-anyone

reply to post by jetxnet


I'm sick to death of hearing about people calling a politician a 'flip-flopper' or liar for adjusting or changing their policies. Here's an analogy for you...

You promise to drive a 1995 Toyota Celica 10 miles. You get 3 miles and it breaks down. Someone comes along and offers you a 2006 Mazda6 to drive the rest of the way. What do you do? On one hand, you PROMISED to drive that Celica all the way... on the other hand a new, better, more efficient, and better solution would be to take the Mazda6 to your goal.

The point is, not everyone knows everything at any one time. Senator Obama has changed his position (flip-flopped) on only a few issues, such as public fianancing, after doing his research, weighing his options, and deciding that foregoing the public fianancing is, in the long run, better. Isn't that a characteristic we WANT in a leader? Someone who knows how to adapt to change and isn't afraid to try new things? Don't get me wrong, i'm not a Obamanite at all, I don't care for either candidate. But I feel it's wrong to judge someone you never met and only hear filtered opinions about.

And as for the Iraq war, I can tell you from experience (i'm writing this from a deployed location, active duty Air Force), that you're mistaken. Obama does NOT support the IRAQ war. He never has, and his opinion has never changed. What he is supporting, is redeploying our forces FROM Iraq TO afghanistan/pakistan. Do some research before posting mis-information.

Originally posted by jetxnet

Firmly opposed Patriot Act -FLIP-FLOPPED - voted for Patriot Act
Supported Public Financing-FLIP-FLOPPED - and backed out
Opposed Iraq War .......... -FLIP-FLOPPED - and now supports it
Opposed striking Iran .... -FLIP-FLOPPED - and now supports it
Opposed Offshore drilling. -FLIP-FLOPPED - and now supports it

I got a kick out of this. I couldn't help but laugh. Obama is becomming more and more conservative everyday. I had absolutely no intention of voting for him, but if he keeps up this trend of moving to the right I think I just may.

If only he keeps walking towards the light...

[edit on 2-8-2008 by alkali]

Sane people will never vote for a trained killer. If I could choose between a trained killer and a teacher, I would choose for the teacher.

Sane people will never vote for a trained killer. If I could choose between a trained killer and a teacher, I would choose for the teacher.

Well said, Obama's associations with terrorist domestic bombers and radical Muslims is more than enough to give creedence to is wanton disrespect for America. A trained killer by proxy indeed.

Voting for the more wise and experienced sage is a smart choice in John McCain. If nothing else, anyone but Obama and his Obama Nation.

I just had to pop in because some of the hyperbole and rhetoric being slung about is absurd beyond reckoning. In particular, I'd like to have a look at the behavior of jetxnet. Surely you are not blind to the irony of making a statement like this...

Typical of Obama supporters when it comes to providing facts and claims to support their arguments.

... shortly after making the following unequivocal claims while providing no support of your own...

Firmly opposed Patriot Act -FLIP-FLOPPED - voted for Patriot Act
Supported Public Financing-FLIP-FLOPPED - and backed out
Opposed Iraq War .......... -FLIP-FLOPPED - and now supports it
Opposed striking Iran .... -FLIP-FLOPPED - and now supports it
Opposed Offshore drilling. -FLIP-FLOPPED - and now supports it

...is not completely lost on you. So let's look at the details, shall we? Starting with the Patriot Act, this was, also humorously, an arrow in Clinton's quiver. She was drawing from a post-facto questionnaire he participated in during 2003 where stated he stated he would vote to "repeal the Patriot Act" or replace it with a "new, carefully crafted proposal." This was in the context of of a re-authorization. So, a bit more nuanced than your cute one-liner above, but still a disconnect between his stated position and later actions. Of course, Clinton did the same thing. Not an admirable attribute, I would agree. Where you're wrong is in thinking Obama is somehow special in these conceits. He can still be better than McCain by a long shot without walking on political water.

Source: www.ontheissues.org...

But to keep this on a good foot, I just want to put out that it's not as if Democrats have cornered the market on this sort of tune-changing:

www.crooksandliars.com...

Please pay special attention to point "2" in the above article. McCain wants to spend more on our troops and then decides it's best not to. If Obama's campaign had people with your sort of zeal working for them, McCain would look like a first class lunatic rather than an average politician.

Moving on to public financing: it's not as if this is a plymouth rock sort of issue and nor should it be. It's a tactical issue. Because Kerry participated in public financing in 2004 his campaign lacked the resources to counter the devastating swiftboat attack; Rove's "October Surprise". One can be in favor of an ideal but eschew it in the face of circumstance. Wouldn't it be nice if you could trust the opposing team to stick to fair play? Alas, the Republicans haven't been known for such nobility for a very long time. For this to be a "MAJOR FLIP-FLOP" (your characterization, not mine), Obama would have had to make a religious issue out of it instead of stating, essentially, that public financing was a "good idea". Not to delve too far into the partisan mud pit here, but this isn't as large a flip flop as nearly the entire Republican choir harmonized in when they said Iraq was about WMD's and then said "wait, WMD's and national security threats aren't important.. what's important is spreading democracy!"

Your number 3 holds that Obama opposed invading Iraq and now supports it. I'll avoid the rhetorical flourish and just ask for your sources on this one.

Your number 4 holds that Obama supports striking Iran. Similar to above, please source. Seriously. Them's some strong words. Striking? How Chuck Norris.

Finally, offshore drilling. This is not a major flip-flop. This is a dialog of compromise in the context of debate: actually, a laudable thing.

Ironically, you've completely missed the one legitimate major flip-flop: FISA support. Alas, this sort of crap seems to be utterly universal when it comes to people within arm's reach of great power. What this issue doesn't do is show how McCain is a better choice.

It sounds like you are trying to scare us with what Obama "might do". I am talking about what MCcain did. He killed, he is a legal criminal, he has blood on his hands, you can't do that to humanity. That is why I can never vote for a man like him. MCcain is experienced in making America more unpopular, he is experienced in killing people. America is on the wrong track, and the words of MCcain doesn't sound like the words of a man who is trying to change that, he actually sounds like he is gonna make things worse by the things he is planning to do,....like staying 100 years in Iraq. The "time of gold" is coming, and there is no place for war during that time. It is time that we unite or parish together as fools. No disrespect to you or to other Americans, but my loyalty is to goodness and goodness only.

It sounds like you are trying to scare us with what Obama "might do". I am talking about what MCcain did. He killed, he is a legal criminal, he has blood on his hands, you can't do that to humanity That is why I can never vote for a man like him. MCcain is experienced in making America more unpopular, he is experienced in killing people. America is on the wrong track and the words of MCcain doesn't sound like words of a man who is trying to change that, he actually sounds like he is gonna make things worse by the things that he is planning to do, ...... like staying 100 years in Iraq. The "time of gold" is coming and there is no place for war during that time,. It is time that we unite or parish together as fools. No disrespect to you or other Americans but my loyalty is to goodness and goodness only.


[edit on 2-8-2008 by nxcbfm]