Obama talks about future stimulus checks

reply to post by TheOracle


Hell with oil companies. Congress is the one lying. The democrat led congress said they had a common sense plan to lower prices in 2006. Been two years and haven't seen it yet.

Now they want to make me believe that the oil companies will pay for this 1000 dollars they want to send me through a windfall tax. I guarantee you that the tax bill will wind up falling in the hands of the American taxpayers in the form of higher prices.

You said it yourself we give the money to the oil companies and they pay their corporate tax bill with part of it, expenses with the other, and what 's left is their profit. This tax they pay is separate from the 18.5 cents federal gas tax and the individual state gas tax. The government is also making a killing in the oil business.

Bottom line if Congress tax the oil companies too much all they have to do is raise prices to cover the increase in taxes. They also have option of moving overseas in which case we lose valuable jobs and less taxes collected by government.

If the whole countries in a depression, im sure alot of those stimulus checks will get signed on over to drug dealers across the country, duh, what a waste... should let people solve their own problems instead of injecting the economy with free money, I think that guys an idiot... Instead of making people plan for the future he just cuts corners and hands out free money hoping its all going to get better, nope....

This is just more buying votes neither Obama nor McCain are talking about the
empire that's costing the american people not only money but our freedom as well.You can not make $50,000 a year and spend $1000 a day.Neither can our government.

reply to post by LiquidMirage


!!!!!!!!!!!!Wrong!!!!!!!!!!!! liberals and conservative are all with their head up to the butts of the corporate pimps, like whores they parade themselves to the highest bidder.

Deny Ignorance, right now most of the scandals has been in the side of the so call conservatives.

Bias is not a very good way to open the mind and the eyes.

We have the most corrupted system of government working today in our nation thanks to the oil men running this nation.



[edit on 3-8-2008 by marg6043]

Obama made that 'windfall profits tax' on oil companies back on June 9th...

evidently capitol hill is turning a deaf ear on his suggestion.
a $500 per person or $1k per family, 1 time check, to help those with heating bills to offset the higher price of fuel (oil, electric, coal furnaces, etc) this winter...

and the mega fuel suppliers have 5 years to pony up their portion of their 'windfall profits' that is going to fund this emergency rescue $$.


this candidate is off in the corner flapping his gums, the proposal is lucridious




+++++now, whats interesting is that Obama sees a dire need for an immediate public works program, in rebuilding infrastructure/school/etc.
What employment stats is he reading, ?
the junk that the Dept of Labor Statistics has out for July shows that only 5.7% unemployment (up .2% from June '08) and that stat is hardly cause for such alarm!

Unless...
Obama is privy to the actual unemployment stats, like the U6 report that the same Dep of Labor puts out, which has the more realistic unemployment number at 9.7%... which is still behind the observable no job rate of 16% that other credible sources estimate is closer to reality.



Obama the person is Real,
Obama the politician is just an Abstraction

Admittedly, I didn't read this entire post because, well, alot of it is crap and shows a basic lack of knowledge WRT many things. Here are a few points that I just want to throw out there.

Why are we demonizing the oil companies? Since when is it a bad thing, in a capitalist society, to make money? Oil companies are in the business to make money, and hey make a product that everyone needs, everyone has, and if they didn't make that product we would be unable to function as a modern society. Much of their money goes into meeting environmental and tax regulations we've placed on ourselves. You'd have a point if they were price gouging, taking advantage of the situation, but there is no evidence of that. You should be thanking them for the work that they do, not cursing them for making an 8% profit on their product. Microsoft makes 18%, and Coca-Cola makes 20% profit. What is unfair about an 8% profit, which is below the national average, that 'Big Oil' makes?
Gasoline taxes are the second largest contributor to the price paid at the pump, after crude oil cost. In 2004, Major U.S. Oil Companies’ Domestic Profits were $42.6Billion (and not all of that was gas sales). Taxes were $58.4Billion total, $24.2B Federal and $34.2B State. For every gallon of fuel that you buy, the Government gets over 18 cents, vs 13 cents to the oil companies, and the government doesn't do anything. The solution is not to further tax the already overtaxed oil industry? It has been tried. Study a little history, and look at the gas shortage in the 70's. Back then, they also introduced a windfall profits tax and it was disastrous. It wasn't until production increased that prices fell. Supply and demand drives prices, it's just that simple.

Bush has many problems, The biggest being the growth of government in my opinion, but you can't blame him for the oil prices. For decades the democrats and environmentalists have blocked any attempt to increase domestic production. That's so well known I'm not even going to argue the point unless I have to. With bush specifically, below are a few facts:

$1.49 - 2001 price per gallon of gas when Bush was sworn in as President

$2.33 - 2007 price per gallon of gas when Nancy Pelosi was sworn in as Speaker

$4.04 - July 2008 Price Per gallon - Close to double in 1-1/2 years.

A guy makes a good case

0$ - Percentage of man-made global warming proven to date

I throw in global warming because I believe that it is a strategy on the part of the Democrats in Congress to increase gas prices as much as possible because they want the country to transition from Peteroleum to alternate energy.
www.fcnl.org...
www.realclearpolitics.com... oratorium_puts_planet.html

In Nancy Pelosi's words, "I'm trying to save the planet, I'm trying to save the planet." Fox News warning for the haters.

Another

Big oil has been screwing the little guy for decades. Exxon-Mobil, formerly Standard Oil of California, has recorded record profits at our expense, refused to allow alternatives to emerge ( electric car), has polluted our environment and got off literally scot free( Exxon Valdese disaster), and has been controlled by the Rockefeller family, known globalists who have been documented to want a one world government and reduction of the world's population via genocide and probable 911 inside organizer. They will dispose of Obama if he tries to take their profits and start a hain reaction leading us into the NWO, IMHO.

reply to post by Anonymous ATS


You forgot to blame the Clinton administration also for the ills of the nations while under a present administration of ruled corporate oil men.

Deny Ignorance.

It seems like Obama's starting to get desperate. Now he's trying to bribe the voters!

What I'd like him to answer is this: If putting more money in the citizens' hands is what it takes to improve the economy, why do you want to raise taxes in the first place? Rather than sending out these bogus stimulus checks, how about shrinking government and reducing taxes? It's a lot simpler and it takes power and money away from the incompetent government and gives it to the people who actually know what to do with it.

reply to post by EverythingYouDespise


That is one of the biggest issues that neither candidate wants to address, the real issues behind our economical downfall.

Cutting taxes is good as long as the nation manufacturing base produces revenue to make the lost of tax income even.

But we have tax cuts and to make the nations budget close to even our government borrows from other nations.

That is call the national debt.

See taxes may be evil but in a nation that is prosperous in makes no difference.

But we are far from prosperous.

No candidate wants to even touch the reason of why we are failing as a superpower when it comes to becoming a nation of consumers, credit card debt and unemployment.

That give you an idea of what kind of people is running our nation.

If you're worried about the government's deficit, you should support the eradication of the many wasteful social programs the federal government pours money into. The only things they really ought to spend our tax money on is national defense.

reply to post by EverythingYouDespise


That would have been perfect in perfect America with a prosperous middle class Dependant on a manufacturing base like it was after ww2.

Now the middle class is dying becoming unemployed, losing their homes and with not light at the end of the tunnel as most jobs has gone oversea.

And those left behind are given to workers from foreign nations under work visas pushed by corporate America and approved by congress.

We are becoming two classes the poor and the very rich.

Without industrial base is not middle class to support the nation.

So actually our own government is making the dying middle class and the very poor Dependant on government hand outs.

Kind of tricky to see how they are working against the nation and the population with their policies.


[edit on 3-8-2008 by marg6043]

You're overstating the problem, if there even is one. Unemployment isn't high at all. The employment rate is, what, 94 percent?

Sure, outsourcing and especially illegal immigration are causing trouble for the lower class. But whenever we talk about sealing the borders and punishing the illegals and those who hire them, the same people who claim to stand up for the poorest Americans are the ones preventing solutions. Why? Well, if those people didn't feel dependent to their government, they'd vote differently.

Let's not forget to add:

By pressuring the Oil Companies with things like this - it will eventually force them away from oil.

But - most opponents to this ideal are forgetting the concept that these oil giants all share one other thing in common:

They're rich and want to stay that way.


This forces a push in another direction.

For 40 years the oil companies have been saying "What? Alternative energy? oh hell yeah - we're investing in that........ ............"

And now we see the outcome of their investments. The same gasoline as 40 years ago (with the exception of E85 which has already died off)

Push them in that direction. Cheaper fuel. Cheaper energy.

The oil companies can make it happen. But they don't want to.

Obama can make the oil companies want to change

You'll still have big business, jobs, money, energy, investments, etc.

So i really don't understand the big deal that conservatives are falsely painting on the issue.

The only difference is - we get screwed less, and much more gently.

Who could argue with that?

So?

how's about this one. Potentially useful for discussion, as it directly effects us all as citizens of the US

Its money in our pockets.

Some argue it'll cause higher gas prices, but i disagree.

Gas companies aren't stupid. It'd be cheaper for them to pay the new taxes, because to raise prices accordingly will cause even more disapproval than they're already up against.

The longer gas prices stay this high, the more demand will come for new forms of energy to power our cars.

Gas companies can't hold out forever, and need to figure out where to invest their resources next.

Higher gas prices because of new taxes on these companies making RECORD BREAKING profits despite record high "costs"...


right.

Anyone who believes that lives in a delusional world created by George Bush himself.

reply to post by Andrew E. Wiggin


Are you serious? Oil companies are obligated to research alternative energy? How do you figure, since they are an OIL company? If I'm a sandwich maker, I'm not going to design shoes, and if I'm an architect, I'm not going to cure disease. How do you figure an oil company is responsible for solar power, or wind? Step outside of yourself for a minute and rethink how capitalism works, and then readress what you just said. Myself, I hope they get richer and richer, along with everyone else. That's what capitalism is.

To the guy talking about the shrinking middle class, you are correct, the middle class IS shrinking, along with the lower class. According to Census:
The notion that the middle class is shrinking is controversial because the economic boundaries that define the middle class vary. Households that earn between $25,000 and $75,000 represent approximately the middle half of the income distribution tables provided by the U.S. Census Bureau. Over the past two decades, the number of households in those brackets decreased by 3.9%, from 48.2% to 44.3%. During the same time period, the number of households with incomes below $25,000 decreased 3.5%, from 28.7% to 25.2%, while the number of households with incomes above $75,000 increased over 7%, from 23.2% to 30.4%"

I will reiterate, the government takes in more money from oil companies in taxes than the oil companies make. There is nothing right about that whatsoever. Gas is more expensive because of those taxes, and any additional taxes placed on the oil companies will make the cost even higher. That is a guarantee.

And again about their "excess profits". The following is from a Wall Street Journal editorial, explaining what I was saying earlier in a much better way: "What is a 'windfall' profit anyway? ... Take Exxon Mobil, which on Thursday reported the highest quarterly profit ever and is the main target of any 'windfall' tax surcharge. Yet if its profits are at record highs, its tax bills are already at record highs too. Between 2003 and 2007, Exxon paid $64.7 billion in U.S. taxes, exceeding its after-tax U.S. earnings by more than $19 billion... Maybe they have in mind profit margins as a percentage of sales. Yet by that standard Exxon's profits don't seem so large. Exxon's profit margin stood at 10% for 2007... If that's what constitutes windfall profits, most of corporate America would qualify. Take aerospace or machinery -- both 8.2% in 2007. Chemicals had an average margin of 12.7%. Computers: 13.7%. Electronics and appliances: 14.5%. Pharmaceuticals (18.4%) and beverages and tobacco (19.1%)... 51 Senators voted to impose a 25% windfall tax on a U.S.-based oil company whose profits grew by more than 10% in a single year... This suggests that a windfall is defined by profits growing too fast.... But if 10% is the new standard, the tech industry is going to have to rethink its growth arc. So will LG, the electronics company, which saw its profits grow by 505% in 2007. Abbott Laboratories hit 110%... Berkshire Hathaway. Warren Buffett's outfit pulled in $11 billion last year, up 29% from 2006. Its profit margin -- if that's the relevant figure -- was 11.47%, which beats out the American oil majors. Or consider Google, which earned a mere $4.2 billion but at a whopping 25.3% margin... General Electric profits by investing in the alternative energy technology that Mr. Obama says Congress should subsidize even more heavily than it already does. GE's profit margin in 2007 was 10.3%, about the same as profiteering Exxon's."