Obama talks about future stimulus checks

Senator Barack Obama (D-Ill.) on Friday announced an “Emergency Economic Plan” that would give families a stimulus check of $1,000 each, funded in part by what his presidential campaign calls “windfall profits from big oil.”

Details are in this six-page policy paper.

The first part of Obama’s plan is an emergency energy rebate ($500 to individual workers, $1,000 to families) as soon as this fall.

“This rebate will be enough to offset the increased cost of gas for a working family over the next 4 months,” Obama said. “Or, if you live in a state where it gets very cold in the winter, it will be enough to cover the entire increase in your heating bills. Or you could use the rebate for any of your other bills or even to pay down debt

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Works for me since a report in Feb of 2008 shows us :

Oil giant makes corporate history by booking $11.7 billion in quarterly profit; earns $1,300 a second in 2007.

Source

1300 a second?
So in.....(for arguments sake) call it 10,000,000 seconds, or roughly

Or 166,666 minutes (uh oh, is obama the devil! )

or simply put 116 days (rounded up) - the oil companies make more than enough money to pay for this.

10,000,000 seconds
x $1300 per second
____________________

Stimulus checks - $1000 for families.




Yes please.

[edit on 8/1/2008 by Andrew E. Wiggin]

It seems very obscene that while Americans are losing, homes, jobs and our children future in this nation we see big corporate American making a killing of the American tax payer, fed bailing out banking institutions and laws ot favor anybody in corporate america but the tax payer.

Now Obama wants to come out with an idea.

It seems obscene that when bush became president with Cheney as his VP, we were paying a littler bit over a dollar on gas.

It seems to be good for oil companies to have an oil man in power.

People are so blind that they don't get it.

Obama plan may sound good, but it will not work, because it's not taking care of the real issues facing this nation, outsourcing, the nation killing NAFTA and the sell out of our industries to foreigners that many happens to be from rich oil countries is what needs to be addressed.

Sorry Obama but that is not going to fix the nation's and its down fall economic problems.

reply to post by marg6043


Its not an attempt to fix anything except to deal with current circumstances.

Did you even read the article?






What was Bush's stimulus checks financed with?
Im not sure - thats why im asking - its a real question.

I suppose that you're for the oil companies setting back to back, ever increasing corporate profits, while we're suffering for it.

Is that what "being american" is?

Suffering so that big oil can have a yacht made of pure gold?

Honestly now.

“This rebate will be enough to offset the increased cost of gas for a working family over the next four months,” Obama said. “Or, if you live in a state where it gets very cold in the winter, it will be enough to cover the entire increase in your heating bills. Or you could use the rebate for any of your other bills or even to pay down debt

Separately, Obama’s plan includes a $50 billion stimulus package that his campaign claims would save more than 1 million jobs.

(from OP article)


I guess you missed that part?


[edit on 8/1/2008 by Andrew E. Wiggin]

Well, honestly I think it's a bad idea to borrow more money and ship it off like this...we're bankrupting our country. On the other hand...the government has had their hands in my pocket since I was a teenager so I'm not going to complain when they hand me a few pennies.

That's another $1k that will be shipped off to my last remaining credit card...I'm almost free!!

reply to post by BlueTriangle


Im glad we agree on something



[edit on 8/1/2008 by Andrew E. Wiggin]

One negative thing though...this does kind of strike me as "buying votes". It's basically Obama saying "Here's $1000. Oh by the way, I'm running for President...vote for me."

While I agree with some of your OP you seem to forget that the money coming from this stimulus check will not damage in any way the big oil companies that still will find a way to gouge the America tax payer.

Our present administration has given them enough incentives at tax payer expenses for years to come.

Another thing is that we are a nation of consumers that already lost its bread and butter that used to be the industrial base in this nation.

We can not survive as consumers with not industrial base to build revenue.

A stimulus check regardless of who is giving it is just a temporary band aid on an on going and increasing problem in our nation that is killing our nations economy.

When the money is gone then what? another stimulus check? add more to the national deficit? borrow more money from foreign countries? like our present administration has done in order to finance our nations needs?

That's what is going on in this nation we are borrowing in order to survive, we are nothing than a bankrupt superpower.

Look how much good the stimulus check as done to help the economy.

77 thousand jobs lost to our sourcing in the month of June and only 9 thousand created.

Among the top companies recently sold were Anheuser-Busch for $52 billion and Genentech for $43.7 billion. With the sale, all patents, revenue and many jobs go overseas.

Abu Dhabi has recently shown its fondness for iconic American real estate by purchasing the Chrysler and GM Buildings in the past months. Now, Abu Dhabi is showing interest in forming a joint venture with General Electric to become a top-shareholder and perhaps begin a takeover.

General Motors announced it will cut salaried positions by 15 percent, nearly 5,000 workers and eliminate health-care benefits for salaried retirees according to CNN Money.com

NAFTA and other free trade agreements encourages domestic companies to outsource jobs to Mexico and South American countries with substantially lower environmental and working standards.

American companies created 9,000 jobs in July after eliminating 77,000 jobs in June, 17,000 more losses than the forecasted 60,000 cuts, according to Bloomberg.com. The addition of 9,000 jobs caused the dollar to reach a one-month high against the euro.

www.economyincrisis.org...

This are only a few headlines that goes forgotten in the news.

How Mr. Obama is going to help fix that?

With more stimulus check?

Are we to become a completely Dependant on government hand outs nation of citizens?

It makes no sense that the real problems of this nation has not been addressed by any of the two elite candidates running in behave of private interest in this nation.


[edit on 1-8-2008 by marg6043]

Originally posted by BlueTriangle
One negative thing though...this does kind of strike me as "buying votes". It's basically Obama saying "Here's $1000. Oh by the way, I'm running for President...vote for me."

I agree, this seems like a pander to gain votes (this coming from an Obamanaut). But so is McCain's "gas tax holiday" idea. Neither idea will really really help American's much and will, in the long run, mean we are simply putting more debt burden on our kids; plus the added bonus of owing China more money (since we would most likely borrow the money for the rebates from them)! What a spendid idea!!

Obs out

Edited my poor grammar!

[edit on 1-8-2008 by observer]

reply to post by marg6043


The incentives for big oil that you refer to are to keep oil companies interested in continuing to produce and refine oil domestically. American does, after all, produce SOME oil. If we didn't, we would be completely at the mercy of foreign oil producers - well, not that we already aren't, but at least right now there's some oil coming out of our own ground. But I would also imagine the tax breaks for oil are like those to go to major corporations - you give corporations tax breaks and that encourages them to create more jobs and spend more in the local economy. If you take money away from corporations, the effects are the opposite - you see job cuts and less spending locally. Big oil may be questionable as far as price gouging, but they keep a hell of a lot of Americans employed.

As for the stimulus package - despite who it comes from, you cannot deny its effectiveness on the economy. People did exactly what Bush said they would when they got their hands on those checks - they went out and blew them, which had a marked positive impact on the economy. One could argue that the recent economic spike was a major contributor to why the economy seemed to turn around and do very well these last couple of weeks.

I can see the wisdom of another stimulus check, as long as it is timed correctly. It needs to go out when the market starts to show signs of sliding again and needs a boost.

reply to post by sos37


So Big oil has tax breaks now, and has it "easy" so to speak


they're making record profits

they say they've been investing in new technologies for 40 years.

Where's the new technology?

40 years?

Nothing new?

Maybe some fancy new pumps that allow for credit card transactions

But nothing new in terms of petroleum production.


They have it good now, and they're not doing crap for the economy.

In fact, some of them are "getting out of the economy" by closing down their "retail" side of things.


So stop defending big oil. They do a good enough job of doing that themselves.

Its time someone defended us FROM big oil.


Is obama trying to get you to vote for him?

Yes- why the hell wouldn't he?

Promising a $1000 dollar stimulus check at the expense of the most corrupt and profitable business in this country is no different than McCain promising a $5,000 dollar tax CREDIT (not refund!) to "create" a UHC plan.


You offer things to buy votes.

Because if you didnt - then you'd be relying on people strictly to vote for you because they belong to your party.

And thats another thing people complain about.

So you can't have your cake and eat it too.

Complain complain complain. Thats all you hear from conservatives when someone threatens to take their precious "power" away from them.

This is one line of complaining ill be happy to deal with. Head on.

Will obama come through on his offer?

We'll see.

But obama's offers seem more enticing than McCain's.


[edit on 8/1/2008 by Andrew E. Wiggin]

Originally posted by marg6043
Obama plan may sound good, but it will not work, because it's not taking care of the real issues facing this nation, outsourcing, the nation killing NAFTA and the sell out of our industries to foreigners that many happens to be from rich oil countries is what needs to be addressed.

Sorry Obama but that is not going to fix the nation's and its down fall economic problems.

What? You mean throwing money at the people to placate them isn't the answer? You just don't Obama and his ideas because he's black, right??

Marg, great post and it does point out the problem facing the US. "Wealth redistribution" isn't the answer.

The only thing that Bushes stimulus check help in our nation was China imports.

GDP Growth Falls Short Of 1.9 Percent Expectation, not that I rely on the easily manipulated GDP figures but hey this one could not be fixed this time.

www.economyincrisis.org...

And that was with the stimulus check already been on going.

Now look at the rate of jobs lost and American base industries lost in the last few months?

Does that add to what gains the stimulus check did? beside put more money on the pockets of China' economy?

What Obama is going to do? give stimulus checks every four months? how about those that lost their jobs? how about those that are losing their homes?

look at the deficit

]The future president of the U.S. will inherit the worst budget deficit ever recorded, a negative balance of $490 billion, $83 billion more than the forecasted $407 billion deficit for this current year

Generating fiscal revenues have not been on the agenda of the current administration. The trade deficit hit a staggering record of $268.7 billion throughout the first nine months of this year, while foreign debt held among Japan, China and the U.K. totaled $1,347.7 billion as of May 2008.

www.economyincrisis.org...

Is nothing than grasping for votes, but then again for somebody like me that have no problem with income this will be great if I qualify for it.

My husband and me probably will be in the other side that will be burden with the bill.

Obama may win the elections but guess what he will inherit a bankrupt nation and what he wants to do will be hinder by that fact after he assumes the presidency.

Andrew:

No way in hell Big Oil is going to invest in anything like "alternative fuels". They probably are investing in ways to get more out of oil, etc, but they sure aren't trying to find a way to make a car run on gopher urine or something like that.

If tax cuts to big oil, etc are cut, do you honestly think that they will be hurt by that? They'll just pass the tax down to you and me. We'll be footing the bill for that.

reply to post by jerico65


Actually I rather have Obama wining than McCain but all the promises that this two corporate puppets are doing are nothing than empty promises.

I am a realistic person, I understand were our economy is heading and how bad it is but is always those that will believe anything coming from their favorite party candidates.

McCain will give us another war and Obama will spend most of his 4 years trying to fix the mess that is our economy and our deficit.

I take the second one even if we as a nation perhaps are beyond repair.

Obama is the typical class warfare socialist.

Originally posted by Andrew E. Wiggin
reply to post by sos37

 

[edit on 8/1/2008 by Andrew E. Wiggin]

I know, "workers of the world unit!" right?

reply to post by Andrew E. Wiggin


I'll defend any big business that employs American men and women. It's what keeps our economy going. As far as price gouging is concerned, it does need to be investigated to determine whether the oil companies are in fact at the heart of the price increases or it this is just the way the free market works.

Also, Exxon Mobil did spend an extra seven billion in exploration and development from last year:

To offset declining production, Exxon Mobil stepped up its investment in new exploration and development. The company spent $7 billion looking for more oil, up 38 percent from the second quarter of 2007.

www.msnbc.msn.com...

And yesterday, Exxon reported the biggest quarterly profit ever posted. But the stock market took a huge battering. Why? Because their profit missed analyst's expectations, so their stock was off and it dragged the entire market down yesterday. Only in America can you have a company post a record quarterly profit and still disappoint Wall Street! That's BS!

Originally posted by Andrew E. Wiggin
Is obama trying to get you to vote for him?
Yes- why the hell wouldn't he?
Promising a $1000 dollar stimulus check at the expense of the most corrupt and profitable business in this country is no different than McCain promising a $5,000 dollar tax CREDIT (not refund!) to "create" a UHC plan.
You offer things to buy votes.

I guess what I don't like is that he's using public funds to buy the votes. You don't really think the oil companies are going to take that hit, do you? They're just going to raise prices to offset it. That money is going to come out of our pockets.

Originally posted by Andrew E. Wiggin
Because if you didnt - then you'd be relying on people strictly to vote for you because they belong to your party.

Really?? I'd prefer if people voted for a politician because they agree with his/her policies...not because he/she put $1000 in their pocket.

reply to post by Andrew E. Wiggin


I totally disagree with these quick fixes that are merely a ploy to get more votes. I disagreed when Congress gave us the last one. Despite Obama saying that he will use windfalls taxes from oil companies, the consumer will ultimately pick up the tab in the form of higher prices.

And no doubt there will be renewed calls to punish energy companies with windfall profits taxes and special legislation that prohibits them from tax credits that others may take. The problematic truth is that these responses will always hurt more than help because they ignore basic economics. Businesses don't pay corporate taxes any more than a plot of land pays property taxes. Ultimately, people have to pay.

While they were recording record profits last year, they were also writing checks to Uncle Sam to the tune of $100.7 billion -- two and a half times what they made in net profit. In fact, previous Tax Foundation research found that from 1977 to 2004, federal and state governments extracted $397 billion by taxing the profits of the largest oil companies and an additional $1.1 trillion in taxes at the pump. In today's dollars, that's $2.2 trillion.

source

I also think that to be fair you should have posted how much taxes this giant oil company pays.

Over the last three years, Exxon Mobil has paid an average of $27 billion annually in taxes. That's $27,000,000,000 per year, a number so large it's hard to comprehend. Here's one way to put Exxon's taxes into perspective.

According to IRS data for 2004, the most recent year available:

Total number of tax returns: 130 million

Number of Tax Returns for the Bottom 50%: 65 million

Adjusted Gross Income for the Bottom 50%: $922 billion

Total Income Tax Paid by the Bottom 50%: $27.4 billion

Conclusion: In other words, just one corporation (Exxon Mobil) pays as much in taxes ($27 billion) annually as the entire bottom 50% of individual taxpayers, which is 65,000,000 people! Further, the tax rate for the bottom 50% is only 3% of adjusted gross income ($27.4 billion / $922 billion), and the tax rate for Exxon was 41% in 2006 ($67.4 billion in taxable income, $27.9 billion in taxes).

source


Here is a little comparison between Microsoft and Exxon. Maybe we should put a windfalll tax on Microsoft.

Oil is skyrocketing… and Chevron and Exxon should be making outrageous profit margins. So let's tax those "windfall" profits! But… hold on a minute…

From March 2007 to March 2008, Exxon's profit margin was just 10%. Meanwhile, its income tax rate was about 43%.

Compare this with Microsoft: Microsoft's profit margin was over 28%. And Microsoft's tax rate was under 30%.

If Obama wants to give taxpayers another stimulus check, that's ok with me. I only ask that he only tell the truth who is really footing the bill. Many people believe that the oil companies will pay when in reality the consumer is the one getting the shaft. Companies make no profit unless consumers buy their goods. Taxes are taking from that profit. In other words it is the consumers money that is paying the company and the government. Another options companies can consider is to pick up their business and move it overseas. In this scenario, both the government and taxpayers lose. Government lose the tax money it was use to receiving and the taxpayers lose some good jobs.

Personally, I prefer politicians (all of them) get off the blame game and pass a meaningful long term energy plan to reduce our dependence on oil. In the long run these short fixes will end up costing us more.

reply to post by BlueTriangle


And this is a policy

windfall profits tax


the 1000$ stimulus is a bonus


why do you fail to see that ?