Blackwater Now in The 'Private Intelligence' Business: Scahill

Originally posted by FremenBlueEyes
it's not like they are driving around baghdad shooting everything in their path with a look of psychotic rage on their face screaming "america rules, Iraqis drool!!!". If they did get into any incident where they had to discharge their weapon they must write a VERY detailed incident report about what happened as well as get it approved by their superiors or else guess what, they get fiored and sent home. trust me, they like their 30,000 dollar a month salary as well as the lifestyle it gives them.
the people that i know are going over their because they feel no one else has the balls, or honor to do so.

The military in Iraq has the UCMJ, contractors in Iraq have nothing. They answer to their supervisors. There is no legal precedent to hold ANY contractor accountable for anything. Our all volunteer military court-martials people all the time. Are these people supposed to be so badass that no law applies? Give me a break!!

So, hypothetically, if a civilian conractor kills an Iraqi civilian, who do they answer to? Their supervisor? They may or may not even be fired. And even if they are, is that supposed to make up for what punishment they would have gotten for such a crime in the U.S. after killing an American? That kind of justification is completely dimented! And now with "private intelligence" conracts what about torture? There is absolutely no legal stipulation or precedent to keep any blackwater contractor accountable for torturing and/or killing someone. Whch means they make their own rules.. No legal strings attached.

And if these contractors are so willing to hire military members with good resumes, and past military experience is highly valued, then why does our government pay the military so much less, while paying the higher dollar amount for a civilian contractor at the same time?

And if there really are more civilians in Iraq than military soldiers, how much is it going to cost to pull the civilians out of Iraq (let alone how much it will cost to pull out the military)? Especially since they are a private company and can charge the government whatever the heck they want!

Where does the government end and blackwater begin? There is no line!

-ChriS

We don't need money to organise as a people, just commited Americans who beleive and support what this Nation is meant to represent. Barter of skills or resources was how it used to be done before monopolised bankers forced greed induced society through the old noble houses.

For example, lets say myself as a soldier, provide my skills and know how to a community of farmers, who need protection from a rival community corupted by the fed. This corrupted group is being leveraged to take over the farmers land and use those resources for a quick fix.

I could present the farmers a unified defense to help themselves, I gain nothing from them exept a cot in a loft and some good ole fasioned home cooking while I instructed them on the means defend themselves in a organised manner.

Simple, both farmers and I are happy, they get what they need and I gain a another peice of the puzzle on who is influenced by the bad guys. Which in turn gets me closer to getting the fed fixed.

Hypothetically of course, but that is how I see it. No one needs power mad money grubbing better than thous, when it benefits the few. A way to ensure such a situation never occurs is just be open minded enough to consider the possability that if prevented, so much the better.

Of course as people, we tend to learn the hard way, even though we know better. Or should at least, but hey thats a lesson to be learned as well.

Ok, enough getting off track.
Private intel is not a horrable idea, but the potential abuse can be. That is why public awareness needs to be improved. If we don't know what they are doing, how can we prepare when they fail again.

Because they will, the gov is not perfect, far from it, no matter how noble they think they are, their still human, and we make mistakes.

Why not be self efficient enough to cover our own assets, when the times arrises.

Do any of you really, honestly trust some one else to to so?

Sure, we hope we can, but just in case...

[edit on 2-8-2008 by ADVISOR]

Yup we should F em all up and string em from the trees for treason!

reply to post by ADVISOR


The problem is that with all the increased laws in favor of government taking over American citizens right and spying on them this fascist government is getting ready to weed out the trouble makers that will want to organized and stop them before their goal is meet.

The patriot act bill was not a benevolent bill to protect American from terrorist it was a well executed and drawn bill to start the big government power over citizens, to strip citizens from their civil right without destroying the constitution, just a manipulation of interpretation of laws.

We allowed that to happen.

Then all the power now given to corporations to spy on citizens so anybody can keep closed eyes on those trouble makers that wants to organized.

We allowed that to happen.

Now this government fix a decades-old executive order governing the Intelligence Community, more powers over citizens.

We allowed that to happen.

The last drop that will make everybody realized that our own for the people elected government has turned completely against its citizens will be when the homegrown terrorist bill becomes law.

And once again we will allow that to happen.

This is the America we have become.




[edit on 2-8-2008 by marg6043]

I just wanted to say that Blackwater worldwide isn't the ONLY private merc and/or private intelligence corporation. There a few different private contractors operating in Iraq. This includes "Blackwater", "Aegis", "Dyncorp", "Triple Canopy", and I believe "Executive Outcomes" is there too. In case you folks don't know; Executive Outcomes was the world's FIRST private mercenary corporation. Started in South Africa in the 1970s. You don't believe me? Look it up.

Originally posted by SpartanKingLeonidas
reply to post by FremenBlueEyes

 

It's funny how you mentioned Capture The Flag, I know that well.

Same here! I used to play in 3 different team fortress classic leagues (CTF). I competed with a few different teams for about 5 yrs, went to practices, etc.. and one of my teams finally won a league title back in 2005. There used to even be an online radio channel for announcing and broadcasting our matchups over the internet.
I haven't played though for years...
But my old teammates are still my best friends. We try to meet up and do stuff whenever we can find the time.. But now we are all old, have kids, jobs, etc..

And back on topic.. These are 2 of my fav jeremy scahill clips on youtube.





-ChriS

I think this is great. Lets have an intelligence unit outside the reach of the government. I vote we make Blackwater the Judcial branch of the intelligence community. The CIA is the Executive branch, the NSA is the legislative branch and Blackwater as the supreme justices.

reply to post by Wifiman


You forgot that the new gestapo agency the homeland oppression security had powers of their own.

What's wrong with a private intelligence force? Ya the public ones are so much smarter

reply to post by marg6043


Not every one, allowed it to happen. Remember, a quote from some one around these parts once said.

Let it be said, those of us who knew, tried.
27-7-2003

or

Let it be known, those who knew, tried.
23-4-2006

The majority are accountable, for their inaction and that will be some thing they will answer to themselves for. Some tried, but they refused to hear it, sheltered in that bubble of comfort.

One day, that bubble will burst, and no one will be to blame exept those who built it.

[edit on 2-8-2008 by ADVISOR]

Originally posted by FremenBlueEyes
reply to post by jerico65

 

you all are being ridiculously idiotic. how many times do i have to tell you people thatI know people that work in blackwater and they are not what you think they are. this website proclaims "deny ignorance" but that is all that you are being is ignorant.
I am telling you that i know many people that work for blackwater, and can prove it, and you won't even ask me a question but rather attack this company with unsubstansiated claims from what seems to be your own opinions. this is ridiculous and i am sick of hearing you ignorant words dehumanizing my friends and family when you do not know what the hell you are talking about!!!!!!!
stop being ignorant and ridiculous.
i can tell you how the people that i know in blackwater think. and i can tell you right now that most of them are atheist in their theology.

Yeah, I have a friend whose uncle's second cousin knows someone who worked for BW. Personally, I'd rather listen to Spartan's observations, since he has done far more research.

reply to post by ADVISOR


Its not worth it, I spend months with E-mails to representatives also making others aware of what is going on, while many people seems to understand that something is truly wrong with our nations for the people elected government they seems to just let things happen because is easier that raising up and fight for what is ours.

Meanwhile our politicians no longer seems to have the need to listen to the people they serve.

reply to post by carole9999


Thanks for that comment.

I do not see it as the people who are the peon's of Blackwater as the problem, but as the leadership who pledges those peon's allegiance in his name.

Extreme right-wing individuals are people who are easily lied to or are easily pissed off to act without thinking and the right-wing part of the Government knows this, and when it comes to a paycheck, Erik Prince is bought, lock, gun-stock, and gun-barrel.


[edit on 3-8-2008 by SpartanKingLeonidas]

"Whenever people . . . entrust the defense of their country to a regular, standing army, composed of mercenaries, the power of that country will remain under the direction of the most wealthy citizens..."

-"A Framer", in the Independent Gazetteer, 1791

reply to post by clay2 baraka


And that is exactly what Rumfeld agenda was in the beginning of the present administration term, he was to privatized our military to the point that now even our bases no longer required military police.

I go to my local base everyday to the gym as is free, no even a year later of the transition from military police to private contractors the new security guards are getting to big in the pants with the new assigned roles.

Is the biggest shame to our military.

reply to post by marg6043


Of course, no arguement on that.

There are three words Americans should never forget, along with the rest that go along with them;

"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."

Some thing which was written to prevent government from being in control, as it is We the People, who are responceable for our government and have the tools to make it right;

"But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security"

Every one shouldbe aware, that this is all we need to do what is right, nothing else is required, exept action.

"Amendment X

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."

Nothing else has precidence, we are entitled as the final sayers of what is, these three documents were created for it to be so. All that is needed is for the people to realise such, and to stand up for what is ours and as was established.

We allowed the current administration to take seat, and we can also remove them from those seats. It only requires us to be, United...

[edit on 3-8-2008 by ADVISOR]

It saddens me deeply that no one has hit on the most devastating aspect of a 'private security force'. MORALE.

Yes they have plenty of room for corruption. No, the US shouldn't have hired them.

Just stop and think what it's like for the 19 and 20 year olds who have given everything in their known lives, only to be on the other side of the world, in a completely hostile environment. KNOWING that there are men there who can have beers all night if they want, prostitutes, pot, hell-we all know about the opium fields, and not have anyone to answer too. The Blackwater employees not only have no one to answer to, WE PAY THEM TWICE AS MUCH.

These guys are risking their lives for us-whether we believe in war or not. This is how we show our respect??

[edit on 4-8-2008 by ObamasLoveChild] for spelling

[edit on 4-8-2008 by ObamasLoveChild]

reply to post by FremenBlueEyes
I know some people that work in blackwater also and they really don't want their names out there.I do know that they are technically bodyguards for ambassadors and diplomats,ect... other people of importants.I don't think anyone needs you to prove that you know some people at blackwater and it would make no difference if you did.They don't put there business out there.There is no point...




[edit on 4-8-2008 by The Specialist]

[edit on 4-8-2008 by The Specialist]

[edit on 4-8-2008 by The Specialist]

reply to post by The Specialist


Any entities or group that is payed by tax payer money their business Is everybody business. That goes for politicians also.