Challenge To All ATS Skeptics

Originally posted by talisman
For some reason this thread is getting derailed into another discussion. It isn't about Payne Stewart or another crash, it is about flight 93.

So I believe what the OP wanted was this:

show 3+ pieces of recognizable plane debris* being excavated** from the Shanksville "pit."

There has been plenty showing it isn't there. Precisely because we can't find any evidence of Flight 93, we're having to use other sources to show it really doesn't exist.

Not all of us are here because we think 100% (without proof or otherwise) that Flight 93 didn't crash (or anything else relating to 9/11 for that matter).

If you can show me a little more than some very suspect evidence (such as that damn tail or APU, or the FDR/CVR serial numbers etc.. for example) then you will swing my opinion, but a lack of evidence does NOT prove that Flight 93 crashed at Shanksville.

You fail to see the point that YOU can't prove it DID, because there is NO EVIDENCE LINKING ANY OF IT TO FLIGHT 93. Because of this, you (the pro OS) keep putting the burden back upon us to prove it didn't.

Dude - it should be easy for you to prove it did, but you can't because it didn't crash there.

For the zillionth time: WHERE IS THE TAIL???? It's that big thing found at the back of all commercial aircraft.

I'm sick of having to prove anything - if you have to get us to prove it didn't, it's only because you can't prove it did. I question your intelligence if you can't see how flawed your logic is.

I know aircraft hit the WTC - plenty of evidence. Flight 93 ???? The Pentagon ????? At the Pentagon, we have 80+ withheld video tapes. Lets see them.

You are only proving the OPs point: the fact that you CAN'T fulfill his request. You're clearly supportive of the OS (and I'm not going to criticize you for that) but it should be YOU providing the evidence it did crash, instead of criticizing us for showing other evidence to demonstrate that it did NOT crash.

We can't make it clear enough that you can't prove it DID, but there is plenty to say it did NOT.

On that, I think the OPs point has been made.

As I keep saying: it only takes one clear video at the Pentagon to be released clearly showing Flight 77 crashing into it for all CTs regarding the Pentagon to collapse. What is on those 80+ tapes they DON'T want us to see?? If there is nothing that contradicts the official story on them, why withhold them?

If you can't see just how screwed up this is, there is no help for you.

[edit on 31-7-2008 by mirageofdeceit]

I like the thread, it definitly proves to me that flight 93 didn't crash there. I scrolled through convinced someone would have pulled something out of there hat. I'm now curious if i can search some of it up. I'll be back but probably not since the whole 9/11 thing is so *&%#'ed up that there probably won't be any photo's.

Star and flag, got to see if anything is found and posted.

So for this challenge, you have to show 3+ pieces of recognizable plane debris* being excavated** from the Shanksville "pit."

Yo got it (not that I think you accept it....)


Jet Engine being recovered



Flight recorders in pit



Impact crater - notice pieces of debris



Having trouble posting individual pictures - here is slideshow with some
shots Check out 1,2 & 5

/hfqan

Wrong link. Try this one instead

www.amny.com...

Try as you might, there is no ay on Gods green Earth that there is 80+ tons of debris in that tiny hole in the ground. That supposed jet engine in the pic we've all seen, looks nothing like a jet engine, for all we know it could be a wind turbine.

i live in pittsburgh which is pretty much 20 miles north from there along with 60 miles+ east away from kanksville... I tell ya what if i wasnt in the situation im in with my dui's i would drive there and try just to see if anything is there at all.

and yea football season is starting soon and sorry if "yinz" are not steeler fans but GO STEELERS

Originally posted by jthomas
BTW, how long do we all have to wait for you to get around to supporting your claims, Ultima1? One month? Two Months? A year?

I have been wating for almost 7 years for the beleivers to post anything supporting thier claims or the official story, so you can wait a little longer.

I am still wating for an answer if your common sense states that the learjet would make a bigger crater then a 757? Maybe someday you will learn to do research but i doubt it.

Originally posted by ULTIMA1

Originally posted by jthomas
BTW, how long do we all have to wait for you to get around to supporting your claims, Ultima1? One month? Two Months? A year?

I am still wating for an answer if your common sense states that the learjet would make a bigger crater then a 757? Maybe someday you will learn to do research but i doubt it.

Easily answered:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by jthomas
Here are more facts and evidence to support my claim that the Payne Stewart small Learjet made a bigger crater then the crater at Shankesville that was supposed to have been made by a 757.

Its real easy to find the information and photos of the Payne Stewart crater and compare it with the crater at Shankesville.

en.wikipedia.org...

Impact occurred approximately 1713Z, or 1213 local, after a total flight time of 3 hours, 54 minutes, with the aircraft hitting the ground at a nearly supersonic speed and an extreme angle. The Learjet crashed just outside of Mina, South Dakota, in Edmunds County on relatively flat ground, and left a crater 42 feet (13 m) long, 21 feet (6.4 m) wide and 8 feet (2.4 m) deep.

upload.wikimedia.org...

upload.wikimedia.org...

Originally posted by jthomas
Here are more facts and evidence to support my claim that the Payne Stewart small Learjet made a bigger crater then the crater at Shankesville that was supposed to have been made by a 757.

Its real easy to find the information and photos of the Payne Stewart crater and compare it with the crater at Shankesville.

en.wikipedia.org...

Impact occurred approximately 1713Z, or 1213 local, after a total flight time of 3 hours, 54 minutes, with the aircraft hitting the ground at a nearly supersonic speed and an extreme angle. The Learjet crashed just outside of Mina, South Dakota, in Edmunds County on relatively flat ground, and left a crater 42 feet (13 m) long, 21 feet (6.4 m) wide and 8 feet (2.4 m) deep.

I didn't write the post you've attributed to me so you'll want to remove that attribution pronto, Ultima1.

I've already shown you there is no official story so it is impossible to believe in something that does not exist. Did you forget, already?

You have proven a negative? Your nobel prize is in the mail...

Then why did we go to war?

Twice?

There certainly is an official story. The problem is that it's incomplete with inconsistencies, contradictions, and in general inconclusive. Thats why debunkers need CT's, because they can't prove the story the government presented.

What's interesting about the Payne Stewart learjet crash is that the plane was totally destroyed including the tail but the CVR survived - just like flight 93. All that was left was a crater and pieces.