London hacker loses appeal over US extradition

You guys dont see the point of why he didn't want to be extradited.

In the US, he will be sent to jail. Because, their legal system basically says they dont need evidence to jail him. Strange, but true.

He wanted the trial to be in england, so that instead of spending the rest of his life in jail, he would spend maybe 20 years at the most.

Might I add, contrary to what's being said - he originally 'hacked' into the computers for the sake of 'something to do'. Him finding doctored photos was am accident.

Wait till you find out how he even got into the computers!..

Some say he committed a crime, I say he showed the US military how to actually protect their computers. (thats not a slur against america, just the militaries security).

Bigmoose

are the british goverment breaking the law by extraditing gary mckinnon since the american goverment appears to no longer respect human rights as they no longer stand on the council, and with the current terrors laws allowing them to detain people indefinitly without charge are not cohesive with current policies in great britain, take for example the likes of some of the evil people lately who wont be deported because of what will happen to them in their home countries because of the crimes they have commited?

Originally posted by THELONIO
are the british goverment breaking the law by extraditing gary mckinnon since the american goverment appears to no longer respect human rights as they no longer stand on the council, and with the current terrors laws allowing them to detain people indefinitly without charge are not cohesive with current policies in great britain, take for example the likes of some of the evil people lately who wont be deported because of what will happen to them in their home countries because of the crimes they have commited?

thanks for saying what i said, in better words

Originally posted by bigmoose
You guys dont see the point of why he didn't want to be extradited.

In the US, he will be sent to jail. Because, their legal system basically says they dont need evidence to jail him. Strange, but true.

He wanted the trial to be in england, so that instead of spending the rest of his life in jail, he would spend maybe 20 years at the most.

Might I add, contrary to what's being said - he originally 'hacked' into the computers for the sake of 'something to do'. Him finding doctored photos was am accident.

Wait till you find out how he even got into the computers!..

Some say he committed a crime, I say he showed the US military how to actually protect their computers. (thats not a slur against america, just the militaries security).

Bigmoose

Yes, exactly.He exposed the security flaws in the windows computers.
He didn't make the security holes they were already there.
This gets the Military Industrial Complex angry because, why did they buy cheap windows operating systems for highly important secure computers instead of having custom built secure linux platforms???
Oh is that because the person responsible for purchasing them, was getting kick backs from Microsoft??
This is one huge butt covering exercise at the further expense of the tax payers (robbery victims).
The cost involved here far exceeds the 700k in IT costs to have the platforms secured.
They have spent millions on this so far to cover up there mistakes.
And using Gary as a scape goat in this witch hunt.

If this so called crime was committed the other way round ie an American had hacked into the computer system of any other country in the world then the country involved would not be able to extradite the American to face charges in that country.

In my view the people who should be getting prosecuted are the people in charge of security on these systems as they totally failed in their responsibility to the American people. If the greatest military power on earth cannot protect a computer system can you really be confident that it can protect you.

Now while I don't agree with what Gary done, I do agree ( if his reasons were genuine) with why he did it. If Governments were a little more honest, open and trusting of its citizens and citizens of the world. then this type of thing would not need to occur.

The man should be tried under British justice as his crime was committed on British soil. The world and its sister know he is not a terrorist, and America should stop screaming terrorist for everything. America has created and sponsored more terrorists (including Bin Laden) than any country.

reply to post by burdman30ott6


That's... not... a voice of reason I see there, is it?

Originally posted by emsed1
Originally posted by ElectroMagnetic Multivers
reply to post by tezzajw

 

If the US government can 'pluck' any person they please from other countries, then the NWO is well on its way, A LAW, WHICH STATES NO EVIDENCE IS REQUIRED FOR EXTRADITION!

Funny how only England and Ireland signed it...

EMM

Signed what?

What are you talking about?

I'm not repeating myself again, read back what I said about the new law they brought in, just for Gary.

Do you think for one second that an American hacker who broke into the MoD computers would not be extradited to England?

lol, er...NO. Not a chance, why would they? America would assure England that it would be in control and we would bow out. IMO, not a chance in Hell., could be wrong though.

EMM

[edit on 31-7-2008 by ElectroMagnetic Multivers]

He also said there was just about every other nations Hackers inside these "Safe Guarded" Gov files.. LOL! I don't see how looking into UFO info is hurting "National Security" considering they 'don't exist' Right?.. It wasn't like he was downloading how to make an atomic bomb..

The amount of brainwashed fools even on ATS is astounding.

There's a surprise! Britain caving in and selling out one of its own under pressure from the Americans! Seems to me the American governments actions are fueled by fear incase McKinnon finds himself a national outlet to reveal what he saw on those NASA computers...
We should all take this as a warning. If we get too close to the truth the governments will fit us up and do their utmost to lock us up where we can't reveal what we know.
McKinnons only crime is one of stupidity. For him to be extradited to the US and then banged up for anything up to 60 years is outrageous.

This is fantastic!!!
By that I mean if it goes to trial then he has the right to ask for ANY documents that NASA have before the trial can proceed.

If NASA are caught out trying to hide documents related to the case then the Judge will have no option but to dismiss the case.

If I was his Lawyer I would ask for every concievable document, photographs etc relating to what NASA knows about the existence of UFOs.

Originally posted by bigmoose
You guys dont see the point of why he didn't want to be extradited.

You don't see the point that he broke the law and that IS the reason he does not want to be extradited!

Originally posted by bigmoose
In the US, he will be sent to jail. Because, their legal system basically says they dont need evidence to jail him. Strange, but true.

First of all, there is evidence. See the following quote from the article:

McKinnon admitted leaving a message on a US Army computer system, reading: "US foreign policy is akin to government-sponsored terrorism these days...

Second, this guy admitted to hacking into these computers. Again, see the following quotes from the article:

McKinnon was never charged in Britain, despite admitting that he hacked into the sensitive computer systems in the United States from a bedroom in a house belonging to the aunt of his girlfriend between 2001 and 2002.

McKinnon has never denied electronically "breaking in" to the computer networks of a number of US military institutions, but claimed he was motivated by curiosity and was "amazed" at the ease with which he could gain access.

Originally posted by bigmoose
He wanted the trial to be in england, so that instead of spending the rest of his life in jail, he would spend maybe 20 years at the most.

He deserves to have the book thrown at him for maximum penalties. He new exactly what he was doing when he did it!

Originally posted by bigmoose
Might I add, contrary to what's being said - he originally 'hacked' into the computers for the sake of 'something to do'. Him finding doctored photos was am accident.

Again, it was not an accident. He knew what he was doing when he did it.

Originally posted by bigmoose
Wait till you find out how he even got into the computers!..

He sure as hell didn't do it with security clearance and the proper passwords!

Originally posted by bigmoose
Some say he committed a crime, I say he showed the US military how to actually protect their computers. (thats not a slur against america, just the militaries security).
Bigmoose

It is a crime no matter how you want to spin it. The reason security is needed in the first place is because of jackasses like him!

"It is a crime no matter how you want to spin it. The reason security is needed in the first place is because of jackasses like him!"

OK it was a crime, but the crime was committed in the UK therefore charges and trial should be brought under the UK justice system.

OK security is needed but the simple fact is the military obviously never had any or "jackasses like him" would not be able to get into the American military system.

The people at fault are the people who designed the so called security system and spent a lot of the US taxpayers dollars to do it. Maybe the taxpayer should ask for a refund and give a few dollars to Mckinnon to pay his legal fees for helping them out in pointing out the flaws in the system, LOL

Here is the reason McKinnon is different from the other 250,000 folks who try to break into the US Military network:

McKinnon is believed to have attacked the Earle Naval Weapons Station, a U.S. Navy command center responsible for supplying munitions to the Atlantic fleet, three times between April 2001 and September 2001.

During the final attack on Sept. 23, 2001, the DOJ alleges McKinnon deleted key files necessary to power some computers on the network.

Source

Here is the distinction between 'hacking' and 'cracking':

On September 23, 2001, just two weeks EXACTLY after the 9/11 attacks he deleted files on the Earle Naval Weapons Station command center computers.

This is a malicious act. This destroys any evidence of 'credibility' or 'ethical hacking' he pretends to preach.

He is damn lucky that he is not sitting in a chain link fence in Cuba for tampering with military systems during a time of war.

To say McKinnon is a 'hacker' is an insult to true hackers everywhere.

Originally posted by Shazmar
OK it was a crime, but the crime was committed in the UK therefore charges and trial should be brought under the UK justice system.

We have extradition agreements with England. He committed a crime against the United States Federal Government.

The people at fault are the people who designed the so called security system and spent a lot of the US taxpayers dollars to do it. Maybe the taxpayer should ask for a refund and give a few dollars to Mckinnon to pay his legal fees for helping them out in pointing out the flaws in the system, LOL

I believe that has to be the most idiotic thing I have ever read in my life. Surely you are not serious! By using your logic, if you leave your front door unlocked and somebody comes in and steals your possessions I suppose you are at fault for failing to keep your stuff under lock and key. After all, we couldn't possibly expect people to know right from wrong and stay the hell out of other peoples stuff!

Has nobody any sense anymore?

what makes me laugh so hard is the last time the UK wanted a US citizen extradited for murder , they told them F*** Off


sad asshats really.

I see a lot of you guys don't know that the hackers are on our side.

I'll post what I posted on the previous thread on this topic:

This hacker folks, is a hero, not a villan.
I think there is a broad misconception about hackers, plus what the people in the media and government officials call hackers are in fact not hackers, they are called crackers. Crackers do damage to your comp, hackers are just people who want to learn information, they helped us in the past by releasing secret information from the Church of Scientology and other things.
Hackers have a bad rep because TPTB are afraid that they will make all there secrets public knowledge.

This man deserves an award instead of a life sentance.

P.S. the second link is broken of the vid is taken down.

-Jimmy

Posted in the previous thread on this:

The real McKinnon


The Camelot Project interview with McKinnon


This guy is on our side, do a little reseach before acausting a hacker, there not really as bad as they are reported as being.
(I have a friend who used to be a hacker, still sorta is.)

-Jimmy

[edit on 31-7-2008 by jimmyjackblack]

Originally posted by jimmyjackblack
I see a lot of you guys don't know that the hackers are on our side.

I'll post what I posted on the previous thread on this topic:

This hacker folks, is a hero, not a villan.
I think there is a broad misconception about hackers, plus what the people in the media and government officials call hackers are in fact not hackers, they are called crackers. Crackers do damage to your comp, hackers are just people who want to learn information, they helped us in the past by releasing secret information from the Church of Scientology and other things.
Hackers have a bad rep because TPTB are afraid that they will make all there secrets public knowledge.

This man deserves an award instead of a life sentance.

P.S. the second link is broken of the vid is taken down.

-Jimmy

How does he deserve an award? He changed files on a Naval command center computer network?

We could have been killed.

reply to post by emsed1


He didn't do any damage, what you hear the MSM say and what the truth is are two different things. I posted a couple of vids both are interviews with him. Hackers are not BAD! They are the good guys, crackers are those little script kiddies that think they're so bad and say things like "1m 1337 h4X0r, muh n4m35 r4Z0r, g07 r007? w007!"
This guy is trying to get information out to the public about ufos and free energy, however he wasn't able to do much, plus there were other hackers that were hacked into the same comp as he was. I think that the info he was seeking will come out from these other hackers though, I hope so at least.

-Jimmy

McKinnon claims he was only looking for UFOs. If that is true, why did he install backdoor software and delete files at the Naval weapons center?

This had nothing to do with UFOs.

It wasn't one simple hack done out of curiosity. It was repeated malicious attempts to damage military computer systems.

The reason he faces 70-80 years in prison is because he is indicted with 8 separate counts. Each count carries a maximum 10 year sentence.

He should consider himself lucky he is a UK citizen. An American citizen caught doing this sort of crime could face charges of treason, which carries the death penalty.

WIRED UK Article quoting McKinnon

McKinnon, from Glasgow, is accused of causing $700,000-worth of damage by hacking into 97 America military computers at the Pentagon and Nasa between February 2001 and March 2002. He is charged with stealing 950 passwords and deleting files at Earle naval weapons station in New Jersey. If he is found guilty, McKinnon faces up to 70 years in prison.