Im truly undecided. Help me vote.

Im a bit surprised how many people here have their mind set and fixed in stone about who they are going to vote.

For me (and maybe others...any others out there?) its not all as clear-cut as these two sides make it look. On voting day it could go either way...

Could some people, knowledgable enough on the subject, give me reasons why I should vote for one candidate and not the other? And maybe without all the stereotypes, just with plain factual information...the issues.

Since there are plenty of pros and cons I could come up with for both candidates and both parties, deciding is tough.

If I pretend for a moment that it really matters who´ s President and I´ll also put aside my hardcore libertarian values for this thread..who should I vote for and why?

If you're a libertarian then you should look at the Bush administration's financial record.

The CATO Institute, the top Libertarian think tank, has described Bush's presidency as "more liberal" than the Clinton one, spending wise.

President Bush has expanded the size of the Federal government more than any President since FDR.

By increasing government spending (primarily in Iraq) and cutting taxes (mostly for the richest 10% of America) Bush has wracked up the largest national deficit ever.

Who supports the Bush tax cuts? McCain. Who supports staying in Iraq indefinitely? McCain. Who supports spending $12 billion a month in Iraq? McCain.

Bob Barr is the ideal candidate if you are a libertarian, but he has no chance of winning. The question you have to ask yourself is this - are you willing to let the policies of the Bush administration continue?

I would really encourage you to visit the websites for both candidates and read where they stand on the issues, what their specific plans are, and why.

If you are interested in learning more about Obama, what shaped him as a person, etc then I would read one or both of his books. I'm not sure if McCain has a book out, but I'm sure you can find speeches, etc linked on his site that provide good info about his background.

Personally, I am not a republican or democrat and try to vote for a candidate, not a party. I've found that Obama seems to have the better vision for this country. While I don't think his plans are flawless or perfect, I do think they represent the best ideas for the country. One plan I really like is the idea of providing young adults money for college in exchange for community service hours. I think it's a great way to get more young people involved in the community and help them afford college at the same time. It also teaches them not to expect handouts, but rather to work for the things that are important to you.

I am also concerned about our reliance on foreign oil and gas. I don't like the idea of drilling for more oil, but rather looking for renewable resources and innovative ways to convert them to energy and transport them aroudn the country. Obama is committed to an "out of the box" way of thinking about energy.

He is also committed to science, research, and innovation. This is important now, more than ever. We need a President who is forward thinking on these issues.

There are other reasons as well, but this is a good start.

There are going to be a lot of posts slamming both candidates on this thread, but I hope you focus on the positives of each candidate. Like I said, neither is perfect and they are both flawed, the greater question is who can offer our country the best path forward...

I would also like to hear what everyone has to say about who to vote for. I have tried to read up on them but something else always comes out. I dont know what is true or not about Obama. If he and his wife really are anti-american and all that. McCain i guess if we want another Bush.

I starred & flagged this because i'm interested in what people have to say.

reply to post by Skyfloating


If you can't decide on a candidate or have lost heart in the entire process altogether, why not offer your vote to 'lobby interest groups' in return for financial compensation?

whilst there may have been the recently reported case of a citizen selling their vote to the highest ebay bidder, it's really no different to a senator recieving perks and share-options 'under the table' from industrial/corporate lobbyists in return for a vote on a bill to allow a repeal on the alaskan oil drilling bill (as an example)

...whats good for the goose is good for the gander

It's very simple this time.

McCain if you like the current situation in military actions, the economy in general, and just about everything else.

As strange as this sounds, this is the safe choice for many people.

Obama if you want to delve into the unknown. Many of the changes he wants will not happen as Congress has the final say, but he will institute change in other areas.

There has been so very few elections were the direction of the country actually has two separate paths. This is one of those elections.

reply to post by Skyfloating


I'll give you $100 to vote for McCain!

To cast a vote is one of the greatest things the populace can do. I also feel it is very personal. I highly doubt one can be influenced by anothers opinion of candidates and thus cast a vote in that direction.

You never know, this could be a "Sky" ploy to expose the leanings of many ATS users. It is a conspiracy forum after all.

I wear it on my sleeve. I'm a gun totting card carrying Republican. Not too proud of W but after McCain we'll get a good one to run.

Becker

reply to post by Skyfloating


If you are a libertarian then I think perhaps what Dr. DiLorenzo has to say will resonate with you. I encourage ALL WHO ARE DISSATISFIED WITH THE SYSTEM TO NOT VOTE!!!! (At the Federal level, please do vote at your local level because of new sales tax regulations or referendums or initiatives to vote on)


According to Dr. Thomas J. DiLorenzo if you are a believer in the Constitution then do your patriotic duty and DON'T VOTE THIS ELECTION!!:

The Republican Party today stands for an explosive growth of the welfare state and is spending money on such programs as fast as Lyndon Johnson ever did. The Democrats are as bad or worse.

On foreign policy the Republican Party is dominated by crazed Wilsonians who want to involve the U.S. military in perpetual global warfare "to spread democracy." As with all such imperialistic ventures, this would eventually bankrupt the country and create countless enemies who would like nothing better than to destroy us by the millions with nuclear weapons or poison. The Democrats are as bad or worse.

Both political parties are competing to grant amnesty to all illegal aliens, as the first step along the way to allowing completely open borders. Combining open borders with an explosively growing welfare state will invite all the deadbeats of the world to come to America, with all their extended family members in tow, to "celebrate democracy" by voting themselves more and more of the hard-earned dollars of those of us who work for a living in this country. This would cause the welfare state to eventually eat up a huge portion of national income, probably half or more. American taxpayers would be nothing but docile slaves to the Washington, D.C. plantation.

The government schools long ago gave up teaching anything significant about the founding fathers, the Constitution, and the philosophy of limited government – other than to trash and demean them. In a democracy it is not in the state’s best interest to educate its own citizens about the virtues of limited government, and ours doesn’t. And it certainly will never make any attempt to do so with the hordes of new immigrants it hopes to attract (and register to vote). Belief in the Constitution is essentially a lost cause.

That’s why it is unpatriotic to vote. Being patriotic in America means being devoted to the Constitution, if not the natural rights philosophy that motivated much of it. Since neither of the major political parties has any interest whatsoever in enforcing the constitutional limitations on the state, they are all traitors to the Constitution (with one lone exception, Congressman Ron Paul).

Anyone who supports them is also behaving in a traitorous manner. That is, anyone who votes for any of them. Voting only allows these traitors to the Constitution to proclaim that "the people have spoken" and "I am your president," or congressman, senator, governor, or whatever. Their legitimacy rests solely on their ability to make this claim.

Imagine what a patriotic thrill you would receive if, in the next presidential election, a mere 10 percent of the electorate, instead of the usual 50 percent or so, voted. The unconstitutional regime in Washington would be de-legitimized. The upside is that it might just be possible that some politicians in Washington would get the message and start behaving more like a George Washington or Thomas Jefferson than a Tony Soprano or Vito Corleone (with apologies to all the distinguished Italian-Americans out there). The downside is that they will keep on behaving as they do now – with complete contempt for the Constitution and the population it is supposed to benefit. So be patriotic: Don’t vote.

Source:www.lewrockwell.com...





[edit on 28-7-2008 by Gateway]

not being American im not going to advocate for one or the other, but i think you need to focus on the issues that matter to you, and which candidate is most likley to achieve those ends.

In Oz usually at least on a fedral level we will vote in the conservatives to get the econemy and budget under control, once things are going along nicely we vote in the labor party whom has a more socialist agenda to fix and build infrastructure and fix the areas the conservatives deliberatley neglected.

In the US your problem is the conservatives were spending like money was going out of fashion and the US econemy is for a lack of a better word crapped up. so i guess you would be looking for a leader that will cut the beauracratic fat, reduce government spending, pay back debts to the IMF and get the ol greenback, higher against the Euro.

The war in Iraq is costing the US taxpayer .. i think it was either 10 mill or 10 bill a day either way its alot of money to be burning that could be put to better use in your own country.

also you ned to listen to what both candidates have to say, its not enough for them to say we will do this or we will fix that they need to provide information on how they will fix it, where will they get the money to fix that particular problem, how will spending that money affect other areas of governance.

governments need to be accountable they need to account for every cent and their every action else you end up with corrupt officials.

Originally posted by hinky
It's very simple this time.

McCain if you like the current situation in military actions, the economy in general, and just about everything else.

As strange as this sounds, this is the safe choice for many people.

Obama if you want to delve into the unknown. Many of the changes he wants will not happen as Congress has the final say, but he will institute change in other areas.

There has been so very few elections were the direction of the country actually has two separate paths. This is one of those elections.

Both these Horses are Janitors from the Aipac Sewerage, so whichever one you back, you are still a Commodity to be enslaved !!!

I would say look at the issues in the US and world and see which candidates offers the best solution for them.Then do a little research on what other issues they bring to the table and other stuff they have to offer.I would say they both look bad at times through the media and us citizens.

Originally posted by alienstar
I would say look at the issues in the US and world and see which candidates offers the best solution for them.Then do a little research on what other issues they bring to the table and other stuff they have to offer.I would say they both look bad at times through the media and us citizens.

These two candidates, if you can possibly call them as such, are mortgaged commodities and already belong to another 'fifth-column' gang-bang mafia, so how on earth can they possibly be in a position to represent the people.

Don't ever be Duped again

Originally posted by Becker44
reply to post by Skyfloating

 

I'll give you $100 to vote for McCain!

I'll use this to get you to vote for Obama.

The only way McCain can get support is to offer bribes for loyalty

On a serious note:

think about what is most important to YOU

(war, money, health care, etc?)

and vote for the candidate that agree's with YOU

forget about what MSM says
forget about what ATS members say (except me )

and check these out

John McCain

Barack Obama

If you dont like those choices, you can check out

This list of potential write-ins.

Just my 2 cents (which...before Bush, used to be a dollar)

[edit on 7/28/2008 by Andrew E. Wiggin]

reply to post by Skyfloating


My advice would be for you to visit their respective websites, watch the debates this fall, and make an informed choice that's not clouded by outside political rhetoric. In other words...don't listen to any of us. We're all biased for one candidate or the other.

Good point...I don't think one member should persuade one over the other to vote.Do a little research and follow ones instinct.You also have the choice not to work if you feel like it.Or vote for another one.

reply to post by Skyfloating


Don't base your decision based on what people tell you. Dig as deep as you can and find out as much as you can on each candidate. If you want voting records of each candidate I can link you up. Pretty much any forum you go to your going to get a bunch of biased info. There are official links that dont favor each candidate and pretty much list where they stand.


If your choice is still open just hold on until the debates. I'm certain you'll be able to make a confident decision after that.

[edit on 7/28/2008 by AndrewTB]

[edit on 7/28/2008 by AndrewTB]

vote sure !
those that vote decide nothing, those e machines that count the vote decide everything
and should this fail safe system fail
the counting will be stopped and we the Junta will decide who will be President

Mcain will be President

Does anyone in America think this can not happen in America?

I saw this picture and I thought it was a very appropriate statement on the political process, especially this year.



Nobody08 for president!

reply to post by Skyfloating


Well Sky you got a Liberal and a Liberal.

Me, I am voting for Paul. Just because hes not running doesn't mean I can't vote for him.

reply to post by Karlhungis


Mmm.. depressing.. I don't disagree, and yet I do..

If anything, it shows how Democracy failed, like Communism it was a good idea on paper.. implemented it's bs ..

Wonder what the next governing sensation to take this nation will be..

I personally hold out for a Monarchy.