China Release New Fighter. The J-10.

Again, you forgot to think that all SSBNs must be sunk at once. If only one escapes the fray to the point of launching its deadly payload before being sunk, it wouldn't matter if you sunk all or you sunk none.

[Edited on 2003-1-22 by MakodFilu]

Hey they only have 2 and they are constantly tailed by US SSN's. The JL-2 missile they use is crappy and inaccurate. To think of MAD when referring to China is ridiculous. They don't have the hardware to destroy the US, even if every one of there missiles was launched.

www.hazegray.org...

Yup, you right. LOL

Now I feel silly. Ah, well! Sh1t happens... LMAO

Still, if not a MAD thing, fighting China would be a mad thing still, and an unwise one.

Back on topic, J-8 are OK, J-10 even if a copy of a copy is more than OK, J-11 are fearsome, even more in great numbers, and J-12 will be a threat to be reckoned with.

I don't know if that would be a battle that USA could easily win or difficultly win, but I assure you that is a battle that USA *can* loose.

Edit: I hate when 'Shoot' is put wherever I write 'Sh1t'. Words *are* words and can't hurt by itselves!

[Edited on 2003-1-22 by MakodFilu]

i can imagine the war

200 000 J-10 against 200 F-22

1100020000 T-80 against 8000 M1A1

5 000 000 chinese soldiers against 500 000 US Marines

lol

My biggest concern is that it is a joint project w/ israel (if I read that right). China is our enemy, make no mistake of that and we share alot of intelligence w/ israel. Scary. We may be shot down w/ our own technology.

I saw it, It's a ugly plane...
Chinese are not experiments enought to build good aircrafts !

I'm sorry but all of you people are wrong when you say that this and that will win against that and this in a war with China. In other words, I can't see how any of you could possibly and logically conclude that either powers will win in a war against each other. How could you possibly see something so unknown? This war between China and the U.S. will be of a magnitude like no other war in the past three centuries. It will would be the biggest war since the Crusades, if you count them all as one. I figure going on about the possiblites of this war is useless because this is a discussion about Jets but has become a mere war issue. Any one care to see a war strategy discussion on this issue? I would join the conversation and would enjoy others to do so as well. On the jets, I think that anything is possible and who knows what is REALLY going on over there or over here? The capabilites of these planes are comparative but not crucially dominant of one another. The truth is, that a true heart will destroy all that gets in it's path, no technology can stop a warrior. Who is the real warrior, the American or Chinese? The answers to that question lies within the heart of men. All men are capable of a true heart, not all know how to keep one. So really the question is, who wants it more? Who wants to win and dominate more, the Chinese or the American? The answer to this question lies within the individual not the masses. You See?

Dude, you need to get some perspective. Your saying that a war with China would be bigger than WW2, that's ridiculous.
A war with China would be a regional conflict especially as they can only project there power just past their boarders.
As far as technology, you should really do some reading about the Chinese military and it's industrial organs. They are nowhere near the US when it comes to technology. There most advanced systems today are equivalent to US tech 20 years ago.
So if we had war tomorrow, it would be fought on Chinese terrritory, not the whole world.

My perspective is fine. You see, I think if the Chinese were smart which they are, they wouldn't get into something they couldn't handle. If they were to get into a conflict with us they would make sure they are ready because they KNOW how superior we are to them. So if they were smart, to get ready for the magnitude of this war they would have to take certin steps to achieve victory. This is why I think the Chinese COULD be superior to us in a war. First of all they should take advantage of the amount of people they have and use them to spread their influence and dominance. They should take any steps possible to get as many agents into the United States so they can start a war of subversion and terror. People seem to underestimate the advantages of terrorism. I think in the next BIG conflicts between opposing forces we will see alot of terrorism. The Chinese can build forces in at least 50 countries to start a campaign of anti-Americanism. They could use the rest of our enemies to their advantage, all they have to do is convince the world that their cause is right and ours is wrong. This discussion is about jet power and not about national power. So I suggest that one of us start a new thread about this. What do you say?

If they did use ethnic Chinese as terrorists in other countries, you can be damn sure there would be a huge backlash against the local Chinese population.
Chinese aren't liked that much in other Asian countries anyway, so terrorism would be counter productive to their agenda.
The biggest problem with the overseas Chinese community is the problem of technology transfer.

I'll agree with that. By the way when I sad that the war between China and the United States would be the biggest war since the Crusades, I was mistaken in not concluding that this was true if we didn't count large allied forced fighting each other as we did in the First and Second World Wars. I was thinking in terms of just two countries fighting, not 17. I should have been more specific, I'm sorry. I will try harder to keep myself clear and presentable. So could you tell me this: Isn't the F-22 still experimental?

Originally posted by Abraham Virtue
I'll agree with that. By the way when I sad that the war between China and the United States would be the biggest war since the Crusades, I was mistaken in not concluding that this was true if we didn't count large allied forced fighting each other as we did in the First and Second World Wars. I was thinking in terms of just two countries fighting, not 17. I should have been more specific, I'm sorry. I will try harder to keep myself clear and presentable. So could you tell me this: Isn't the F-22 still experimental?

NELLIS AIR FORCE BASE, Nev. � America's newest fighter-attack aircraft has arrived at Nellis Air Force Base. The Air Warfare Center here formally entered a new era Jan. 14 as Raptor 00-012, the first F/A-22 delivered directly to the Air Combat Command by Lockheed Martin, the primary contractor for the aircraft, arrived at the base at approximately 10 a.m. It was flown from Edwards Air Force Base, Calif., to Nellis by Lt. Col. David Rose, chief of Nellis' F/A-22 Integration Office and Air Combat Command's first F/A-22 pilot.

Air Combat Command formally entered the F/A-22 operations realm Jan. 4 when maintainers from the 57th Wing's 57th Aircraft Maintenance Squadron and operators from the 53rd Wing's 422nd Test and Evaluation Squadron completed the command's first F/A-22 sortie at Edwards Air Force Base, Calif. Rose flew his first F/A-22 sortie in Raptor 00-012 during the event and was launched out for the mission by Tech. Sgt. Greg Auzenne, the dedicated crew chief for the aircraft.

F-22

Yes the F-22 is fully operational. Other variants are not. Eg. FB-22.

Consider 1 thing.
This has been playing on my mind for a long time.
How many Chinese people live in the US?
In Australia there are approx. 1.5 million in a population of 20 million.
Just say these Chinese were forced to commit acts of Terrorism in these adopted countries? Don't get me wrong I have many Chinese friends and is not a racial slur.
But many Chinese have Families in China. Just say Chinese officials in China hold these families until a crime was committed then released.
Many of my Chinese friends say that China allows families to travel overseas, though at least one member of the family must stay in China! Why is that?
Just something to think about.

Exactly! There are many things about the Chinese government that are so brutal and controlling. The government must think that because it has alot of people it needs to control them tightly. Unless the values of Maoist Communism see to it that that's the way the Chinese will live, in fear. I personally know very little about China. I do wonder though, if there is a militia in Nepal that is inspired by Mao Zadong then is it feasible to say that the Chinese military could benefit from having a relation to these rebels or not? Or would it be counter-productive to their goals and positions. Yeah I know that an open relationship with these rebels would be bad because of the backlash from the international community, but would a covert relationship do the Chinese government and military any good? If anyone can faithfully answer that I would appreciate it very much.
Thanks

quote:
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Originally posted by Abraham Virtue
I'll agree with that. By the way when I sad that the war between China and the United States would be the biggest war since the Crusades, I was mistaken in not concluding that this was true if we didn't count large allied forced fighting each other as we did in the First and Second World Wars. I was thinking in terms of just two countries fighting, not 17. I should have been more specific, I'm sorry. I will try harder to keep myself clear and presentable. So could you tell me this: Isn't the F-22 still experimental?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I think you'll find that the Crusades were several wars fought over a period of 50 years and invovled most of the European Christain counties ie England, France and the Italian states against the Saracens aka Muslims.

just as we have had several unnanounced things, it is entirely possible for the chinese to have adopted a new comm/radar system. it isn't like they'll go tell everyone, hey this is how we do things so you can undermine it!! if their goal is air superiority. i do belive that ths US is only producing up of 300 f-22's so an extended war against superior numbers would eventually hit home. and even though we train constantly, the sheer strain on the huamn body of moving at that speed in atmosphere, would likely destroy many poilts into fatigue and exhaustion. especially if they kept refuelling for extended flights. no matter what drugs they have or tests they've done, it just isn't logical. say it this way, a squadron of 12 raptors, against a defence force of 100 j-10's which could continuously switch out in patrols, would make the US incredibly tired. and if the chinese decided to simply spray the air in fire , there wouldn't be a way out, regardless of technology. technology is useless without the skills to utilise it with harmonious perfection.

Originally posted by phoenix_cross
just as we have had several unnanounced things, it is entirely possible for the chinese to have adopted a new comm/radar system. it isn't like they'll go tell everyone, hey this is how we do things so you can undermine it!! if their goal is air superiority. i do belive that ths US is only producing up of 300 f-22's so an extended war against superior numbers would eventually hit home. and even though we train constantly, the sheer strain on the huamn body of moving at that speed in atmosphere, would likely destroy many poilts into fatigue and exhaustion. especially if they kept refuelling for extended flights. no matter what drugs they have or tests they've done, it just isn't logical. say it this way, a squadron of 12 raptors, against a defence force of 100 j-10's which could continuously switch out in patrols, would make the US incredibly tired. and if the chinese decided to simply spray the air in fire , there wouldn't be a way out, regardless of technology. technology is useless without the skills to utilise it with harmonious perfection.

If the Chicomms did have a new radar system then they would have to train with it. Once they do that then any number of US intelligence aparatus would pick it up (ie. ELINT satellites, spy planes ).
As for the superior numbers, and F-22 can carry up to 10 AMRAAM's. So in theory they could shoot down 10 Chinese fighters before rearming ( this is probably more fact than theory ). This would have a huge psychological impact on the Chinese air force. Superior numbers don't mean anything if there is ahuge gap in technology. The art of close in dogfighting has almost vanished, with long rang missiles replacing guns.

Also, you dwell on the F-22 too much. What about the other 1000+ US fighters ie. F-16,F-18,F-15. These are easily a match for the best the Chinese have to offer ( SU-27 ).

The only disadvantage to the US would be the fact that they would be operating extremely close to the Chinese boarder. This is because the Chicomms can't project any significant power outside their boarders.

So it would be a Turkey shoot.

didn't we have one F-86 Sabre squadron in Korea during the Korean war...compared with thousands of MiG-15s (a technically superior fighter) for the North Koreans/Chinese/Russians? I seem to recall from my studies that we did pretty damned good in the air there

I will repeat this quote of mine as it is a valid response to our quiry.
"Again Americans under estimating their opponent.
Do you remember the Vietnam War or maybe the Korean War?
Today's war is totally different I know, though the difference in technology from the USA to the next nation is still the same as it was back then.
All I'm asking is that you be open minded in the way you think a potential opponent.
The way to think is not 'Yep..... Um were the best and that�s it. No 2 ways about it!'."
A war on your own soil means a totally different thing to a force that fights its battles out side America.
Think about it boys.


[Edited on 4-3-2003 by barba007]

Originally posted by barba007
I will repeat this quote of mine as it is a valid response to our quiry.
"Again Americans under estimating their opponent.
Do you remember the Vietnam War or maybe the Korean War?
Today's war is totally different I know, though the difference in technology from the USA to the next nation is still the same as it was back then.
All I'm asking is that you be open minded in the way you think a potential opponent.
The way to think is not 'Yep..... Um were the best and that�s it. No 2 ways about it!'."
A war on your own soil means a totally different thing to a force that fights its battles out side America.
Think about it boys.

[Edited on 4-3-2003 by barba007]

Not true back then there was only a tiny difference in technology. Not 20 or so years as it is today.