Cuban 'Atlantis' Cover-Up Solved?

Sorry TWISI,

Here's the link. Click on the graph for specific information. en.wikipedia.org...

cormac

reply to post by cormac mac airt


There are a couple of points I would like to raise in regards to your graph for sea level rise.

One:

That would come out to an average of .015 meters/.59055 inches per year. Definitely slow enough for people to have excaped from.

You are averaging the rise evenly over the period even though your graph does not indicate that to be the case. One can see a much more dramatic rise from 11 - 9k, but true enough people can escape with their lives from water that rises slowly.

The larger point that Marusek's paper makes is that the comet explosion/impact creates massive disruption in the order of things. So not only do we, by his example, have massive water displacement, but also tectonic and sedimentary shifts that wreak havoc as well as extreme weather effects from the fallout.

It was in these regions (such as Cuba, the Mediterranean, and India) that mankind found a niche and thrived. These shallow coastal lands were among the richest and most fertile on Earth. These protected coastlines were the sites of the largest cities and population centers. (This is not much different than today, where 85 percent of the Earth’s population and the majority of cities are within 200 miles of the coastline. It’s just a different coastline, the edge of the continental shelf.)

(TWISI NOTE: The above paragraph speaks to your earlier comment about coastal habitation.)

The end came suddenly. A large comet or asteroid cut its way down to the Earth in a flash and bore through the glacier sheet. For most people, this initial event was so sudden and distant that it might go unnoticed.

They would first feel the effects of the impact when a series of massive earthquakes would rumble through a few minutes later. The cities of brick and stone would crumble about them and on top of them. If they looked at the sky, they might notice that it was beginning to take on strange colors before it finally went completely dark. Survivors would stumble around, trying to free family and friends trapped in the rubble.

The sea level would begin to rise at the same time that torrents of rain would begin to fall from the sky. As the hours turned into days and months, the unending deluge would lift the level of the sea by as much as 400 feet, submerging approximately 15 million square miles of coastal land around the world and drowning its inhabitants. This brought to an end the Ice Age and destroyed most traces of the Ice Age civilization that came before us.

It is worth noting that he published his paper in 2004, three years before the discovery of evidence that there was such a that comet the detonated in Canada in 11k b.c. approximately when sea levels began to raise more dramatically.

NOTE: In previous post I stated 13k b.c., this was incorrect as I was confusing how long ago it was with the actual timeline which places it firmly at 11k b.c.

Yeah, sorry about that. Got 12,900 years ago and 12,900 BC mixed up. The calculations do apply for the first.

For the second, for the sake of argument, I'd say 20 meters in 1000 years. It sounds like a lot, but it still measures out to .02 meters or .7874 inches per year. Still not a big increase.

Note: There are times I really hate the BC/AD system we use.

cormac


[edit on 30-7-2008 by cormac mac airt]

reply to post by cormac mac airt


Yes, but that's not the point of Marusek's paper. What he threoized, BEFORE evidence came forward that seems to confirm his theory, was what would happen if a comet -- that size -- hit the ice cap.

And what would happen is tremendous destabilization in the form of earthquakes, volcanos, a blacking out of the skies and torrential, incessant rain.

This explains the massive die-offs at the beginning of the end of the last Ice Age. And also why we are seeing evidence of pre-historic cultures in most of the underwater areas that were temperate and habitable at that time.

edit: typos

[edit on 30-7-2008 by TheWayISeeIt]

Well catching up:

Took some notes out of the two and half pages I missed

And let's keep in mind that 99% of the time archaeologists are in the employ of someone else who has a job specific agenda, perhaps that accounts for THE SILENCE...

Hans: Care to explain that one?

Why a seaport at that elevation?

Hans: For the lake

would have lost the technology to sail 10 miles from their coastline.

From where to where are you saying its ten miles from? Later you seem to have backed off on that - the Straits of Florida would still have been over 110 kilometers wide even with a drop of 100 meters in the sea levels

But I do know that Atlantis did break up into 3 parts prior to it's complete sinking.

Hans how do you know that?

This event happened near the end of the last Ice Age, a period of de-glaciation that lasted from about 21,000 years ago to 12,000 years ago," Clark said. "The average sea level rise during that period was about eight millimeters per year. But during this meltwater pulse there was an extremely rapid disintegration of an ice sheet and sea levels rose much faster than average."

The amount of sea level rise that occurred during a single year of that period, Clark said, is more than the total sea level rise that has occurred in the past 100 years.

.

Hans: So 800 millimeter equals less than a meter or a short yard. Not very fast, don't forget that water expands in all directions when it enters a lower body of water.

Thanks Lostinspace, the answer was even more mundane than I expected!
Good to know that Collins will be conducting more search/research in the area.

A few points to add to Cormac's points:

Originally posted by TheWayISeeIt
You are averaging the rise evenly over the period even though your graph does not indicate that to be the case. One can see a much more dramatic rise from 11 - 9k, but true enough people can escape with their lives from water that rises slowly.

In addition, we find sites along the coastline here in Texas from annual hunting and fishing camps of the local tribes. They don't show any sudden and drastic rise in the sea levels.

The larger point that Marusek's paper makes is that the comet explosion/impact creates massive disruption in the order of things. So not only do we, by his example, have massive water displacement, but also tectonic and sedimentary shifts that wreak havoc as well as extreme weather effects from the fallout.

Except his evidence really hasn't been proven. He's presented it, but you need corroborating evidence and studies. As far as I know, there aren't any.

The sea level would begin to rise at the same time that torrents of rain would begin to fall from the sky. As the hours turned into days and months, the unending deluge would lift the level of the sea by as much as 400 feet, submerging approximately 15 million square miles of coastal land around the world and drowning its inhabitants. This brought to an end the Ice Age and destroyed most traces of the Ice Age civilization that came before us.

That really doesn't hold up. We would see massive landscape scourings (as in the Scablands, where there WAS an ice dam that broke and an immense lake flooded Western Oregon/Washington, scouring the landscape about 10,000 BC and killing everything in its path. If the "ice sheet meltdown"was so great and the deluge was that great, NOTHING would have survived. And the mass of fresh water into the sea...that much would have killed off all the sea life.

Only turtles and cockroaches would have lived.

It is worth noting that he published his paper in 2004, three years before the discovery of evidence that there was such a that comet the detonated in Canada in 11k b.c. approximately when sea levels began to raise more dramatically.

That one isn't proven. It's still being debated, and there's a lot of evidence against it.

reply to post by Byrd


There you are... we missed you.

Since I am alone here at the moment, and you and Hans are moving through the Lost Civ board in tag-team fashion again and most of his questions were directed at others, I'll begin with your statements by asking you some questions.

Byrd says - In addition, we find sites along the coastline here in Texas from annual hunting and fishing camps of the local tribes. They don't show any sudden and drastic rise in the sea levels.

What sites are those? How far back did you look for sea rise levels? Please link to the data and show us the research.

Byrd says - Except his evidence really hasn't been proven. He's presented it, but you need corroborating evidence and studies. As far as I know, there aren't any.

Well, Byrd, that's as far as you know. As of July 8, 2008 -- one year after the first theory was presented that evidenced a 4km wide comet impacting/exploding the Ice Cap, which is four years after Mursek put forward his theory I linked to -- the geological research scientists' who were sent down to refute the idea of an asteroid ushering in the ice age went public with this:

Geological evidence found in Ohio and Indiana in recent weeks is strengthening the case to attribute what happened 12,900 years ago in North America -- when the end of the last Ice Age unexpectedly turned into a phase of extinction for animals and humans – to a cataclysmic comet or asteroid explosion over top of Canada.

READ ABOUT IT

Byrd Says - That really doesn't hold up. We would see massive landscape scourings (as in the Scablands, where there WAS an ice dam that broke and an immense lake flooded Western Oregon/Washington, scouring the landscape about 10,000 BC and killing everything in its path. If the "ice sheet meltdown"was so great and the deluge was that great, NOTHING would have survived. And the mass of fresh water into the sea...that much would have killed off all the sea life.

Only turtles and cockroaches would have lived.

What Mursek presented was not simply and "ice sheet meltdown", it discusses what I think are pretty accepted standards of what happens when a giant comet/meteor comes to Earth.

He combined that data with what would happen if one hit an ice cap at approx. 11k b.c. and put forward a published theory that would explain the massive die-offs coinciding with the Younger Dryas Event.

He is actually an expert in his field of research. You can go back go to the links and read his many published papers on the topic, and then get back to me at your leisure.

And maybe then we can have a discussion about it.


edits: for typos and clarification
[edit on 30-7-2008 by TheWayISeeIt]

[edit on 30-7-2008 by TheWayISeeIt]

I espouse a view similar to many, in that i think that ancient lore and mythos originates from real incidents. Sometimes the actual incident is skewed in the mythos due to the use of the metaphor as a pneumonic device.

I was looking into some of this information and stumbled onto this:

abob.libs.uga.edu...

It is a a researcher with a paper on file at UGA named Bob Kobres. He has some pretty good research.

With astronomical evidence in mind a simplified, but testable, hypothesis of Bronze Age collapse would involve accepting the legend of Phaethon as an event inspired myth, as Plato contended it was, and also giving credence to stories of protracted winter in the aftermath of celestial "battles," such as the Ragnarok.

During a close approach to a massive object like our planet a comet would be gravitationally disrupted (Phaethon's disentegrating chariot) independent fragments would then further break to pieces as they entered Earth's atmosphere. This debris, of various shapes and sizes, would scatter widely along the path of the fall, each piece harboring energy in proportion to its mass. The "footprint" of this event could have included some of: southern Europe, the Mediterranean, the Near East, and Northern Africa. Damage, however, would not be uniform throughout this area. If the disintegrating objects were traveling south of east, as the Phaethon story implies, the more massive fragments would travel farther and release their greater energy, explosively, lower in the atmosphere toward the southeast end of the elliptical area directly affected by the fall. In other words, the Near East would be more heavily damaged than southern Europe. A survey scaling intensity of site destruction might reflect this aspect, i.e., vitrification of soil and building materials might occur below lower altitude multi-megaton blasts.

Secondary effects of a large impact event would include: a spottily enhanced C-14 environment, making this means of dating unreliable to confirm or refute simultaneous destruction of disparate sites; a large production of oxides of nitrogen yielding dangerous ozone depletion, perhaps giving a survival advantage to darker skinned people in the aftermath, particularly in equatorial regions; acidic precipitation from the above-mentioned atmospheric chemistry; and, in the higher latitudes, impact winter, caused by suspended dust and soot.

I would note that the paper referenced is from 1992 and doesn't directly address the recent data we have been discussing.

reply to post by TheWayISeeIt


Marusek's paper does have the distinction of being aimed at helping to explaining the end of the Ice Age and extinction of the mega fauna.

It's a pretty safe bet though, that soon after Glen Penfield found the Chicxulub Crater (Dinosaur Killer) in 1978 and scientists calculated the size and effects of the impact, we already knew what the ramifications would be if something else approaching that size hit again. Differences between the two: Chicxulub was 6 miles in diameter and impacted just off the present Yucatan Peninsula. Per your link to Byrd, the Ice Age impactor was about 1 mile in diameter and exploded above Canada. Flashfires and aftereffects of same aside, Marusek's comments about the tectonic ramifications, etc. would not necessarily have come into play. Corroborating evidence still needs to be found.

cormac

reply to post by Hanslune


Hey Hans, just so we're clear here --- and frankly I don't see how that is a pertinent point if the paper was published 1992 -- but it's not since the paper I am referencing, and the one I LINKED, to is titled and dated.

It reads:

"Theory Supporting the Biblical Account of the Great Flood"
James A. Marusek
(As published in the Cambridge-Conference Network (CCNet) , Issue 47 2003 of 29 May 2003)

It is noted as "Rev 1, October 6, 2004". I find the title somewhat misleading in that it does not seem to be pursuing any religious agenda but is using biblical flood as a stand in for the "Global Flood Myth".

I will give you the link ONE MORE TIME in case you have somehow missed it...

As to not adressing the data we have been discussing, how's that? It may not been data you've been discussing as you were not here for the last few pages of posts, but if you read the thread more than cursorily you would see it introduced, and understand why it was introduced.

And why it -- and the subsequent theories that are being proved out by other mainstream researchers/scientists-- is significant enough to merit an actual dialogue in the Socratic sense of the word, as opposed to some unsubstantiated, self-aggrandizing, personal platitude, Thread Killer speak.

And this time? I'm not looking at you.

reply to post by cormac mac airt


Hey cormac - I appreciate your thoughtful response and will be right with you -- well if sleep and common sense does not suddenly take hold of my psyche. I am looking for info I saw yesterday to address your post with which I thought I had bookmarked, but alas did not.

When I find it, I will post it here in the form of an edit.
Cheers!

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan


And last, but certainly not least, BFFT! What a fascinating hypothesis. I am going to look into it tomorrow as well. It's late here and all of my indignation has worn me out. So, anon, good fellow. TWISI

I have been adivsed to give this topic its own thread. I will be linking to page 7 or 8 on the new thread and will momentarily link this thread to the new one.

I am also calling this THREAD COMPLTETED as the Title was is no longer apt. The Cuban 'Atlantis' Mytsery was solved and my conjecture proved incorrect. Because of lostinspaces' hard work and intiative we learned what really happened to Zelitsky, but we still can wonder about what's down there and the many other monolithic sites we see evidence of scattered around the globe.

I will be responding to cormac and anyone else who is unanswered on the new thread and will post a link momentairily.

The new thread is titled:

"Science Proving 'Global Flood Myth' True - Dating for Prehistoric Civilization Legitimized!"
HERE'S THE LINK

Come on over!



[edit on 31-7-2008 by TheWayISeeIt]

[edit on 31-7-2008 by TheWayISeeIt]

Twisi

I was referring to the link of the 1992 paper by our Texas friend

reply to post by Hanslune


I thought as much, but wanted to wait and make sure.

My thoughts are that if a paper was written in 1992 discussing the possibilities of the occurance, it would still be relevant to help provide context and support to the concept.

It would seem that his predictive capability is fairly astounding.

[edit on 31-7-2008 by bigfatfurrytexan]

Oh in general it was useful but didn't reflect directly on what we were referring too.

EPILOGUE:

I received a response from Dr. Iturralde-Vinent the geologist who was the source of so much debate and speculation earlier in the thread. My question was regarding what happened to the video data from the last MEGA expedition as the last interview he gave - a translated article in 2004 stated it was sent to an organization we could not verifiy.

He clarified who has the data now as "an archeologist from the Ministry of Science, Technology and Environment." He said he worked with Zelitsky until 2007, but is no longer involved in the project and refuses to give interviews, as a matter of fact he was very concerned that the journalist who wrote the last article had written something new he had not seen. The Spanish journalist was pursuing him doggedly recently in Cuba.

He sent me some text data he said is his summary from the last visit to the site, but I have not had a chance to go through it as it is in Spanish and not easily translated. If there is anything new here I will certainly shout it out.

Another source of new information, for what it is worth, has told me that he has been in contact with Weizenweig, Zelitsky's husband and partner -- they are now working off the coast of CA and moved their company from Cuba to the Bahamas -- and Weizenweig says they are in dialogue with the Cuban gov. about going back to the site, but it is tricky given the political situation at the moment.
Cheers!
TheWayISeeIt

reply to post by TheWayISeeIt


if you want it translated from spanish, send it to me. I will see what i can do. I manage a queue of bilingual phone agents. And my wife is Mexican. And i live in West Texas.

It will be interesting if they can raise the millions to do this search and get permission from the Cuban government. I wonder why ARE and other believer organizations aren't pitching in?