Stop Raising The Minimum Wage & Stop Whining

Minimum wage over time, corrected for inflation:
oregonstate.edu...

Or another graph... this one shows how close minimum wage is from the current poverty level:
oregonstate.edu...

Who's whining now?

reply to post by proof_tracey


I think you've done more than most people on minimum wage and I hope you don't give up. To raise kids and choose to not live in the projects and struggle is a decision you make and I applaud you for it. I myself never went to college so you beat me there. Please don't get discouraged because of this thread. Keep working hard and become the writer you dream of being. We all have our struggles but at least you choose to keep fighting to not end up in the projects or welfare. I blame the government for messing up programs that were meant to help people out temporarily not permanently. I blame the government for our tax codes and driving corporations away from the U.S. My main concern is raising minimum wage without fixing those problems first. Everybody would be better off if the corporations came back and better jobs were available. Keep working hard proof_tracey and don't ever give in for you are the one that can make a difference in your life and you children.

Originally posted by slackerwire
reply to post by ncuncfan2006

 

Uh, they can join the military.

Life isn't fair, and it isn't a function of government to make it that way.

If someone is unhappy with their wage, they are more than welcome to find a different employer, open their own business, or suck it up and learn the necessary job skills to make more money.

Minimum wage was never meant to be a "living wage", it is entry level and nothing more.

Minimum wage WAS intended to be a living wage when FDR pulled us out of the Great Depression. WW II did NOT pull us out-- and that is the myth the military has been pushing over and over again. Fabricating things for productivity is one thing, but military build-ups are the best way to move money OUT of the economy. Our troops in Germany and bombs going off -- how does that help OUR economy? Not at all. If you paid people to build bridges you don't lose any money in the economy and you stimulate demand.

Unemployment and attitude are pretty dependent upon the system overall. Greenspan has been working towards worker insecurity for years. I once had an argument with my dad about elections; his idea of merit was that people should pass a test to vote. I told him that; if we don't push education and give everyone the vote -- people will never be worthy.

Minimum wage and education for those who can afford it is a self-fulfilling prophesy and totally against the concepts of the Founding Fathers. We should be raising people up. If a company has to invest $15 an hour in an employee -- THEY will train them and make sure it is worth it. Laziness is just a part of despair. I've never met a lazy kid when they are motivated. People in projects may sit back and not work and try and scam the system (albeit for a LOT less than those at the top), but that is because they feel no hope and that they have nothing to offer -- THAT is the cancer.


I was lucky enough in my life to have people who helped me out when I needed it. If my brother were in the inner city, he would probably have been thrown in jail rather than making a Quarter Million a year right now. This idea that some guy in the suburbs with successful parents "bootstrapped" himself because he paid for college with a paper route is utter bull#. I did have two jobs and when to a state college on my own dime but that was after I was 28, and had already failed in the marketplace. Mostly because I was insecure.

For the people without empathy -- it's all about survival of the fittest; which is one theory of many of Darwin's and MOST of nature lives on cooperation with other species actually. But people without empathy never consider that some people can't just get over whatever problem they have, or feel like crap because they have no hope to make their dreams come true.

The problem is that the system we have is stacked towards maximizing rewards at the top and making it difficult to move ahead at the bottom. If everyone had a college education who wanted it -- that starts to level the playing field. Why don't we have that in this nation if it has been proven to return 6 times the cost back to the economy? Why are people not investments?

I think this "tough love" crap, has no support for it. I remember that we had the dark ages -- and if you didn't work, you starved. I don't think that is a great model for productivity and a better America. All these Conservatives keep talking about America, while describing Mexico. And then they point to Socialism as the worst thing ever -- and the Dutch have the best quality of life. But hey, results and historical realism don't seem to have anything to do with the Left - Right debate. The Republicans have the Media, and it calls itself Liberal while never, ever discussing the benefits of unions or why we had them in the first place. How Liberal is that? Perhaps we have been scammed.

Originally posted by slackerwire
reply to post by ncuncfan2006

 

Uh, they can join the military.

Life isn't fair, and it isn't a function of government to make it that way.

If someone is unhappy with their wage, they are more than welcome to find a different employer, open their own business, or suck it up and learn the necessary job skills to make more money.

Minimum wage was never meant to be a "living wage", it is entry level and nothing more.

Minimum wage WAS intended to be a living wage when FDR pulled us out of the Great Depression. WW II did NOT pull us out-- and that is the myth the military has been pushing over and over again. Fabricating things for productivity is one thing, but military build-ups are the best way to move money OUT of the economy. Our troops in Germany and bombs going off -- how does that help OUR economy? Not at all. If you paid people to build bridges you don't lose any money in the economy and you stimulate demand.

Unemployment and attitude are pretty dependent upon the system overall. Greenspan has been working towards worker insecurity for years. I once had an argument with my dad about elections; his idea of merit was that people should pass a test to vote. I told him that; if we don't push education and give everyone the vote -- people will never be worthy.

Minimum wage and education for those who can afford it is a self-fulfilling prophesy and totally against the concepts of the Founding Fathers. We should be raising people up. If a company has to invest $15 an hour in an employee -- THEY will train them and make sure it is worth it. Laziness is just a part of despair. I've never met a lazy kid when they are motivated. People in projects may sit back and not work and try and scam the system (albeit for a LOT less than those at the top), but that is because they feel no hope and that they have nothing to offer -- THAT is the cancer.

I was lucky enough in my life to have people who helped me out when I needed it. If my brother were in the inner city, he would probably have been thrown in jail rather than making a Quarter Million a year right now. This idea that some guy in the suburbs with successful parents "bootstrapped" himself because he paid for college with a paper route is utter bull#. I did have two jobs and when to a state college on my own dime but that was after I was 28, and had already failed in the marketplace. Mostly because I was insecure.

For the people without empathy -- it's all about survival of the fittest; which is one theory of many of Darwin's and MOST of nature lives on cooperation with other species actually. But people without empathy never consider that some people can't just get over whatever problem they have, or feel like crap because they have no hope to make their dreams come true.

The problem is that the system we have is stacked towards maximizing rewards at the top and making it difficult to move ahead at the bottom. If everyone had a college education who wanted it -- that starts to level the playing field. Why don't we have that in this nation if it has been proven to return 6 times the cost back to the economy? Why are people not investments?

I think this "tough love" crap, has no support for it. I remember that we had the dark ages -- and if you didn't work, you starved. I don't think that is a great model for productivity and a better America. All these Conservatives keep talking about America, while describing Mexico. And then they point to Socialism as the worst thing ever -- and the Dutch have the best quality of life. But hey, results and historical realism don't seem to have anything to do with the Left - Right debate. The Republicans have the Media, and it calls itself Liberal while never, ever discussing the benefits of unions or why we had them in the first place. How Liberal is that? Perhaps we have been scammed.

Originally posted by Anonymous ATS
Minimum wage over time, corrected for inflation:
oregonstate.edu...

Or another graph... this one shows how close minimum wage is from the current poverty level:
oregonstate.edu...

Who's whining now?

Those Graphs are really misleading. The Consumer Price Index is what people should use to compute inflation -- because this is based upon what people are paying. The Inflation rate is a total fiction now, and includes whatever fudge factor required to keep it low, so as to keep the automatic payouts on Unions and Social Programs lower, and sinking below inflation.

It really hasn't kept up with its purchasing power from 1968 and the stats I've heard put it at $15 or more.

But I don't want to debate the issue. I think it's a moral one. Some people had to struggle and good for them. They are proud that they ate peanut butter and ramen noodles while working to get ahead.

But people are caught up in fighting for scraps with other people -- they don't get the big picture or why wasting most of your energy and time fighting for scraps would actually help America.

reply to post by proof_tracey


Hang in there Tracy.

There is a brain disease in America right now which has to sort itself out. This false idea of "survival of the fittest" and that success is ONLY about hard work.

I came from two educated parents and I'm a guy. I worked hard at times to get ahead but I can tell you -- you work less hard making more money than you do making $10 or less in this economy.

I don't think most guys could hack being a single mom. The Republican philosophy would never survive the real world, for people who have to take care of the mess. Women like education supports and mend tend no to -- why? Because a lot of guys just don't have to deal with the 'kid" problem.

I have 6 and 3-year old boys. I've held two or three jobs at various times because my wife doesn't make a lot of money. In fact, I make about 6 times what she does when I contract -- so, other than helping her sanity, her job at $15 dollars an hour is a wash with daycare.

I just don't know how a woman can do it. I really don't. to have a job and raise a kid is one of the toughest things you can do. Especially since we don't often have extended families anymore. We even have policies that help break up families, because women can't get welfare with a provider around.

"We can't afford a raise in minimum wage." We can't afford NOT to have a minimum wage increase actually. The economic problem that is taking America into another great depression is due MAINLY to wages not keeping up with productivity. The expansion of our economy has been funded on Credit. And America has gone into debt to make the pain felt later -- well later is fast approaching. The economic system we have been following HAS BEEN, 90% of the way, what the Republicans and Libertarians have asked for. They point to one or two wasteful social programs and tisk tisk, at the cost. Well, we send more money to multi-billion dollar farming combines and oil companies than we do the poor. The amount of corporate welfare in this nation is staggering. We have $75 Billion dollar nuclear subs -- for what reason? We have more than a thousand times the number of nuclear bombs than we need to destroy human life on this planet and it costs billions to keep them in warehoused and ready -- for what reason?

We have welfare for the wealthy and it far exceeds anything we've done for single mothers in this country.

I'm glad a few people worked hard and got ahead -- we all did. The HUGE difference is, that most of you came from educated parents with a support system. As well as I'm doing -- I would have failed a few times if I didn't have someone to backstop me. And as a single mother -- wow. No guy should be allowed to comment. It's like telling a Marine with 4 tours of duty about how much more they should stay in Iraq. But, this has never stopped people with big mouths before.

It is this damn simple:
In countries that have no minimum wage and pay as you go education, people fight for jobs, there is massive unemployment and life is cheap.

In countries that have higher minimum wages so that they can afford to have a family, and FREE education, the economy prospers, wages are high, and they have low crime.

People who want others to suffer and work hard and scrape by can just move to Mexico.

Just Momma you come off as someone who has been looked after by her father or parents and have had lots of help from someone always in her life.. Id bet this is the case.


Slacker you just come off as a @zzhat.

[edit on 28-7-2008 by forthepeople]

Originally posted by proof_tracey
The writing I do is volunteer. It's a thankless job but it gets me out there and noticed. I work a regular job as well. That doesn't mean I plan on giving up my dream as I am three chapters away from finishing a book. I know several people that are already published that are willing to help point me in the right direction, but I don't count on that at all.. it's just a dream I would like to achieve.

Tired don't feel like quoting who asked what.

Just a suggestion. Keep your day job!

Something like writing should be hobby. Unless you can start expressing yourself in a more interesting and intelligible way that captivates at least a core audience, then your chances are slim to none on turning in any real profit.

I am having a hard time getting past your first sentence with out falling asleep. Sorry, no offense. I am just saying to not rely on something that even the best in the field struggled for recognition.

How is the government preventing me from earning more than minimum wage? I've no idea, as I'm not the government. The only jobs I am qualified to do are crap pay jobs... *minimum pay set by the government*

Uh-oh! *minimum pay set by the government* sounds like you are complaining. Actually if you are only qualified to work "crap jobs" than you *should* only be paid "crap pay." When you decide you want more, you will use your brain and figure it out.

A suggestion, quit dreaming of being a writer and find something that you *CAN* do and do well, market it, and then *you* can set your price on it. No need for throwing in the government bc you are not satisfied with the "crap pay" you are getting for your "crap job."

I am *not* where I am today because of choices I made, I am here because of bad luck, not enough knowledge and no strong support base at the time. Sorry if it sounds whiny but that's the way I feel and what I have experienced.

NOW, with that statement, you are qualified as a loser, and we didn't have to say it because YOU said it. Loser is the antonym of winner. In case that is over your head, by saying you have bad luck, you are MAKING YOURSELF a loser and not a winner. You have a bad attitude and it is no wonder you can't get out of your crap job.

It doesn't *sound* like you are whiney.. you *are* whiney. That attitude has a lot to do with why you are in your position and that attitude IS your choice.

Let me be clear with you. I-T......I-S......Y-O-U-R.....F-A-U-L-T.

A young girl at the time trying to figure out which way is up with no one to give me advice or point me in the right direction so to speak.

Please tell me by *young* you mean when you were 3. I think I was younger than that when I figured out which way was up.

The words 'loser job' I used because that's how I felt when I read the original post; like I just didn't matter. It doesn't feel good knowing I can't do something in life that truly makes a difference in others' lives. I am one who wants to help others but I can't do that very well with what I make.

A better writer would have written: "I said 'loser job' because it made me feel like a loser to read about being responsible for the choices that I have made that have brought me to this place in my life. I wish I could quit blaming everything and everyone else so that I can finally make a difference in others' lives. In all honesty though, it is much easier to sit here complaining and feeling sorry for myself than to put in the effort and actually use my brain."

Just trying to help you on your desired path, my friend

I don't think the minimum wage is keeping up with the cost of living (at least not here).

I do want to move to a cheaper state, can't afford to do that right now.

Well, seeing that you admit thinking isn't one of your favorite past times, let's not start with thoughts of what you *think* should be considered "living wage." My guess is "living wage" in your opinion would include comforts as well. You can't be doing all that bad since you have a computer and internet. That is a C-O-M-F-O-R-T, so all your and your babies necessities should be well taken care of, correct?

And since you don't *want* to move somewhere cheaper, than I am sure my advice to sell your computer and cancel the internet to help toward the cost of moving will fall on deaf ears. Ah well.

As far as being a paid writer that would rock but I am realistic, I know that may never happen. That's why I keep my day job. :-)

I'm sorry for posting my thoughts or if I sound like a meanie.

edited to clarify a bit
[edit on 28-7-2008 by proof_tracey]

Darlin' I really hate to be the one to burst your bubble, but unless you can stop complaining and get yourself into a grammar class or two along with some writing classes, I am afraid this dream will remain just that.

Sorry if I sound like I am being blunt... it must be because that is my intent.


EDITED TO ADD: No worries though, those who will agree that you can do nothing more than you are already doing and believe that you need someone to hold your hand will be along in a few to try and put me in my place for you. NO need to speak on your own behalf bc there are plenty of ppl who agree they can do it better FOR you.

[edit on 28-7-2008 by justamomma]

reply to post by ALightinDarkness


You learned from Economists? No wonder you have all your facts wrong. Robert Reich is the only decent one around who understands the economics of decency. Everyone is on this maximizing profits kick right now and the whole theory is based upon Supply-side crappola that has been killing America and its culture since Reagan.

America has been LOSING economically, since we've been going hog-wild with deregulation. We've exported our airplane and computer technologies, and it's made some few fabulously wealthy. But, most of America will make ZERO dollars from planes and electronics coming out of Asia. Since we don't have tariffs to speak of anymore, GM will also be selling us cars from China and those people with Union jobs will be fighting with the folks scrubbing toilets.

What does America export anymore? Weapons and patents. If the scheme to DRM the world and use royalties fails (and it will), about the only future employment that your kids can look for will be as a Mercenary. Maybe this will shed some light on why congress keeps supporting Bush's endless wars and having a mercenary force inside America (Blackwater) that can buy tanks.

I am 100% convinced that most of the people crowing about our American system of making tough, rugged individuals, are going to be horribly shocked when that system fails.

But it is about how smart you work -- not how hard. And we aren't pushing smart people to success anymore -- we just have greedy, callous people for the most part getting successful. Great for you if you started your own business and made some money -- but you got nothing on a CEO of a Drug Company.

Our system is more and more distorted and more and more inefficient.

Notice how the housing crisis is working out in California? People had homes that had inflated prices at $750,000 because of cheap credit. Because wages have been stagnant, much of that was affordable because of cheap credit. Well, as soon as the value of homes goes down -- people have so little equity in their homes that they save money foreclosing and renting property. That's called a bubble.

If Credit weren't cheap, and wages were higher, people would have some equity in their homes and some investments to ride out a rough economic time.

But out system is a house of cards. We are the muscle for the elite in this world. We are soon going to come to a crossroads where we realize that the only value of the dollar is based upon how much we can destroy -- our military. A lot of our brains and know-how were imported over the years, and they probably won't stick around to enjoy the heightened security in our depressed economy.

Anyway, I'm sorry for you folks who think that the problems in America are about the poor. The world has always had poor. Nations that waste money on whiners at the bottom will be the best places to live. Nations that waste money for the whiners at the top (an boy, do rich white guys in this country whine), are nations on their way down.

Originally posted by forthepeople
Just Momma you come off as someone who has been looked after by her father or parents and have had lots of help from someone always in her life.. Id bet this is the case.


Slacker you just come off as a @zzhat.

[edit on 28-7-2008 by forthepeople]

You know its funny you say that cause I got the same impression. She is one of those people who got help from mommy and daddy or a good money making husband. In her deluded mind she thinks she did it all on her own without any help from anyone.

[edit on 28-7-2008 by ncuncfan2006]

Originally posted by ncuncfan2006

Originally posted by forthepeople
Just Momma you come off as someone who has been looked after by her father or parents and have had lots of help from someone always in her life.. Id bet this is the case.


Slacker you just come off as a @zzhat.

[edit on 28-7-2008 by forthepeople]

You know its funny you say that cause I got the same impression. She is one of those people who got help from mommy and daddy or a good money making husband. In her deluded mind she thinks she did it all on her own without any help from anyone.

[edit on 28-7-2008 by ncuncfan2006]

Obviously neither one of you have bothered even reading through this thread and so your *thoughts* are hardly worth arguing with.

Raising the minimum wage is so popular for the politicians and people, but is not the answer. Raising minimum wages is forcing small businesses to become welfare agencies. Companies who have to pay forced higher wages are more likely to look for more experienced workers and leaving young, uneducated first time workers out in the cold. These younger kids and workers need that entry level job to gain the experience to move up. Without this opportunity for first time inexperienced youth they tend to turn to drugs and crime with all that free time and learning to keep a job and gain experience " is lost." Raising the minimum wage is just another forced tax on small businesses that will somehow turn that cost over to who? ( tax payers).

We need to look elsewhere for solutions to fix our economy, not raising the minimum wages. How about lowering taxes, giving power back to the people with the fair tax. How about programs that involve education for people struggling rather than " here ya go, this will get you by til next time". To much whining and not enough action is being done by our voted politicians. Raising the minimum wage will in my opinion keep the poor, poor.

reply to post by justamomma


I seriously doubt your are anybody's mom. You sound callous. I don't like that you are trying to stomp out this ladies dreams of being a writer.

Yes, most likely people aren't going to make money writing and no I'm damn sure she won't quit her day job. But unless you have something positive to say, to give this lady some hope. Shut Your F^^^^^ Mout. The blogging policy here prevents me from going any further with what I'd like to say.

There are plenty of people who make lots more money like me, who don't have to work as hard as the average single mother. I worked hard and I was lucky.

There are people in third-world countries who scrap by and work harder than you or I and they do not succeed. Some people don't know how to.

I'm very smart, but I don't like paperwork and invoicing -- which keeps me from making about $50k more on the side. Basically, I'm depressed from America sliding into Fascism. That I have to argue with people about torture in this country -- is the most sick and depressing thing I can think of. That I have to argue about why we should give people a boost up and not a kick down -- that sickens me.

So it isn't about just making up your mind and making more money. A lot of us function with a heart -- and sometimes that gets in our way of being cutthroat and practical. I function with a very creative mind, and it gets in my way of just making money -- I want to do great things.

Not everyone is the same, and there are some great geniuses out there who cannot fill out a tax return -- so they will never be wealthy. I know a few idiots who've made a few Billion dollars and they are good at one or two things. They are not better people -- just better suited for Corporatism.

Sometimes I'm sad that we have this anonymous web -- because I seriously doubt that you would say such things to a single mother, and we would have a better idea of who you were. If I were to meet you -- I'd have no problems, however, saying what I am saying now.

Lay the Hell off your personal judgements on people who take care of their families. It isn't your problem.

Originally posted by Solarskye


We need to look elsewhere for solutions to fix our economy, not raising the minimum wages. How about lowering taxes, giving power back to the people with the fair tax. How about programs that involve education for people struggling rather than " here ya go, this will get you by til next time". To much whining and not enough action is being done by our voted politicians. Raising the minimum wage will in my opinion keep the poor, poor.

Great idea maybe you should have posted a thread on how the government needs to change and what they need to do to make this country a better place for everyone. No instead you make a thread title that comes off as a attack on those that make lower wages and whining yourself about it causing prices to go up.

Plus im tired of you and others irrational ILLOGICAL thinking. The government doesnt give people 6.55 / hour THEY HAVE TO WORK FOR IT. Probably doing a harder job than you actually. Isnt that ironic?





[edit on 28-7-2008 by ncuncfan2006]

And to those people who say minimum wages are catching up with their pay and their boss tells them because of the wage increase they cant afford to pay em more.. Maybe for small businesses this will fly but not for large businesses and corporations

A multi million/billion dollar business can pay you more. They dont want to pay you more cause they want that 10th car or 5th house and use the wage increase as a scapegoat and you guys fall for it.

[edit on 28-7-2008 by ncuncfan2006]

Originally posted by VitriolAndAngst

I seriously doubt your are anybody's mom. You sound callous. I don't like that you are trying to stomp out this ladies dreams of being a writer.

Seriously doubting hardly changes the fact that I am . And if my kids were too busy feeling sorry for themselves rather than doing what it takes to make their dreams come true, I would set them straight.

They are 5 and (almost) 7yrs old, and even they take more responsibility for their choices than does the "lady" who "dreams" of being a writer.

The way I figure it, until we are honest with ppl that they are not going to get what they want without REALLY working for it, we are enabling them to remain in the "mud puddles" they are wallowing in.

I have been dealt with bluntly along my path and instead of arguing and continuing to complain, I used it as a catalyst to get myself out of my # hole and make something of myself. If I can do it, so can she and every other American.

Yes, most likely people aren't going to make money writing and no I'm damn sure she won't quit her day job. But unless you have something positive to say, to give this lady some hope. Shut Your F^^^^^ Mout. The blogging policy here prevents me from going any further with what I'd like to say.

Uh-oh, don't "squash" her dreams by being honest. *tsk tsk*

By positive, you mean lie and continue to hold her back from her potential? I have more respect for ppl than that, friend.

There are plenty of people who make lots more money like me, who don't have to work as hard as the average single mother. I worked hard and I was lucky.

There are people in third-world countries who scrap by and work harder than you or I and they do not succeed. Some people don't know how to.

You were not lucky, you worked hard. Sure, single mother have to work harder, but that is because, like me, they picked *snips* for husbands and had kids. I am not working harder just because I am a mom, I am working harder because I CHOSE to bring these children into the world and so I am working for three.

Instead of complaining about it, I am making it happen!!

And since we are NOT in a third world country, we have no excuses not to make what we want of our lives. Good point, dude!!!

So it isn't about just making up your mind and making more money. A lot of us function with a heart -- and sometimes that gets in our way of being cutthroat and practical. I function with a very creative mind, and it gets in my way of just making money -- I want to do great things.

Not everyone is the same, and there are some great geniuses out there who cannot fill out a tax return -- so they will never be wealthy. I know a few idiots who've made a few Billion dollars and they are good at one or two things. They are not better people -- just better suited for Corporatism.

Sometimes I'm sad that we have this anonymous web -- because I seriously doubt that you would say such things to a single mother, and we would have a better idea of who you were. If I were to meet you -- I'd have no problems, however, saying what I am saying now.

Lay the Hell off your personal judgements on people who take care of their families. It isn't your problem.

I have more appreciation to those who told me the truth in my life than those who would have made excuses for me to clinge onto ultimately enabling me to not make something better of myself.

Actually, I probably wouldn't have said these kinds of things a few months back, but I am seeing an awful "epidemic" here in America called humanism and I can clearly see how this is gonna come and bite us ALL in the arse if we don't start telling ppl the truth.

I will sleep fine tonight with what I said. If she doesn't like it, she has one of two choices:

1. To listen to all of you who would say that she can't do more with herself,
2. Get angry or understand that I speak from experience and use that as a catalyst to go after what she wants.

I have seen ppl in much worse situations than the one she is claiming climb their way up to a place they were satisfied with.

If you are not satisfied with your life, then do something about it.

reply to post by proof_tracey


You made a CHOICE not not gain the knowledge necessary to make more money.

You sound like you want to blame everyone and everything but yourself, not a very good example for you to set for your kids unless your life plan for them is to avoid personal responsibility at all costs.

Bad luck or good, YOU are ultimately responsible for your position in life.

I have pretty much the worse "luck" on the planet, and I have found the key to overcoming it. Want to know it?

The next time you think you are on the business end of some bad luck, simply say this: "Hey Bad Luck, go screw yourself", and then wave your middle finger around for it to see.

Try it next time, you will find it helps.

reply to post by justamomma

I have been dealt with bluntly along my path and instead of arguing and continuing to complain, I used it as a catalyst to get myself out of my # hole and make something of myself.

Did you do this without any help from friends, parents, Bfs, husband, alimony, child support, school loans, bank loans, inheritance, anyone cutting you a break along the way . etc etc? I dont care if it was loaning you 100 bucks to get you out of a squeeze one day.


Everyone reguardless of how hard they work had to be cut a break by someone someday even you.

So stop being a pompus azz Oh i get it your married to slacker.

[edit on 28-7-2008 by ncuncfan2006]

Originally posted by Solarskye
Raising the minimum wage is so popular for the politicians and people, but is not the answer. Raising minimum wages is forcing small businesses to become welfare agencies. Companies who have to pay forced higher wages are more likely to look for more experienced workers and leaving young, uneducated first time workers out in the cold.

Over the short term -- yes, a wage hike can hurt small business. You can make exceptions for the size of the company as well. Small business entrepreneurs see a micro-economic model, and paying more for anything really has an effect. What they don't see, is more customers in the door in the larger economic sense, that will frequent their small shop because now they might have money for quality instead of shopping at WalMart all the time. If we run a bottom-dollar country, then there won't BE ANY SMALL BUSINESS. Have you noticed the bank mergers chasing the bank foreclosures? That's in an unregulated market, and apparently before these Draconian increases in minimum wage. I'm sure some smart aleck is ready to blame our next bankruptcy the day AFTER the increase.

Over the long term -- this statement you made is not supported in the real world. Conservatives say this so much, people think it is based upon some real world examples. In most cases -- raising wages makes MORE jobs available. I HEAR about lower labor costs helping business -- but that's only when ONE business can do it when their competitor can't. I don't see examples of economic booms for Lower Wages anywhere. In fact, I see evidence that higher wages leads to more prosperity for everyone;
In Oregon; www.ocpp.org...

Here is a report of the contrary. But of course, this is the scum bags at the Heritage Foundation. They pump out mis-information that others can quote. They train bloggers to spam our discourse on the web. They put out well trained shills who get high-paying jobs preaching about the status quo. Just read here and see if you can see the echo of what the NeoCon's believe; www.heritage.org...

And of course, see how it is so close to what the White House thinks, when it is promoting things AGAINST the middle class and Democracy at every turn; www.house.gov...


www.commondreams.org...
Of course, this does make it harder for CEO's to pull in $2 Million per year.

The cost of business is the cost of business. It all factors in. Businesses don't fail because of taxes or employee costs -- they fail because either there isn't a market to support their business at it's current costs, or because they have higher costs than a competitor. De-regulation has REDUCED the number of jobs, because the company who can have the most short-cuts can reduce their costs the most. You can lower your number of workers if you can make them work longer hours and don't worry about the extra labor required for safety, pollution controls, or quality products.

I heard some Shill on the radio explain why Annheiser Busch was bought -- he said that it went at fire-sale prices because of America's high corporate taxes. Well, ours are lower than ever and only 65% of corporations are paying them. Multinationals can cook their books and NEVER show a profit on taxes by paying too much for widgets from another part of the company overseas. The company that bought our American beer was Dutch. Companies from all these horribly inefficient Socialist countries are buying our "free market" run companies. Spain is buying our roads and putting up tolls. China and Saudi Arabia are buying lots of infrastructure as well. So much for the Democratic, and Free Market America which can't pay its bills.

en.wikipedia.org...