Court says 'gay' rights trump Christian rights

"Heaven and hell resides within the mind of man." swingarm


[edit on 19-7-2008 by Swingarm]

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[edit on 20/7/2008 by watch_the_rocks]

reply to post by Icarus Rising


I would rather be in hell then let some people infringe upon another's rights. If a religious god thinks it's okay to keep one group down while another triumphs over them, then it is no god I wish to worship. I think religion is a great thing because it gives people a set of rules and morals to live by, but some of the rules and morals are outdated. That is the problem with the church since the dawn of time, they are behind in their beliefs. Unless they get with the times I will not be attending anytime soon.

reply to post by Swingarm


No you are not, and don't play coy with me, you rascal!

IF the police came and arrested the gay people, so the Christmas gathering could continue, would you still feel the same way?

The answer, for the third time, is: Yes, I would feel that the Free Speech rights of the "gay people" had been infringed. They have a right to be on a public street during a public event speaking out about their beliefs, whether I agree with them or not.

Of course, my answer to them would be something like this:

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath showed it unto them.

20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

23 And changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and four footed beasts, and creeping things.

24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonor their own bodies between themselves:

25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:

27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was meet.

28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,

30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,

31 Without understanding, covenant breakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:

32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

I would urge them to repent, confess Jesus as Lord and Savior, and live.

Originally posted by intrepid
"Hey guys, let's crash the Outfest. What do you think"?

To stomp on the first amendment rights of the gays?

These Christians weren't standing around "peaceably" protesting. They were screaming through a megaphone and getting right in the faces of the gay people. They were there to cause trouble, to interrupt, to interfere a sanctioned event. To make noise. Who knows? To get arrested to further their cause.

And just like Bart Simpson speaking to Lisa, saying, "I'm going to be swinging my arms like this, and if any part of you should happen to get in the way, that's YOUR problem!", these Christians were bullying and causing a public disturbance. NOT protesting peaceably.

Swingarm 10:21 Dogma keeps men in shackles. Heavin and Hell reside in the minds of men.The outcome of your choices are varying degrees of heaven or hell. You take responsibility for your own freewill.

reply to post by Neaux


I have to disagree. God the Creator is the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. (Rev. 22:13)

Ecclesiastes 1

9 The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.

10 Is there any thing whereof it may be said, See, this is new? it hath been already of old time, which was before us.

11 There is no remembrance of former things; neither shall there be any remembrance of things that are to come with those that shall come after.

reply to post by Swingarm


Freedom through complete surrender to Christ. Die to yourself in the flesh that you may live forever in the Spirit. The supernatural, inexplicable Living God of Creation.

I believe you set yourself up for a big fall when you seek to exalt yourself above the throne of Heaven.

Originally posted by Icarus Rising
reply to post by donwhite

 

Flush away, don. You will never eliminate the spiritual movement started by Christ.


[edit on 19-7-2008 by Icarus Rising]

From what historians now know, and from trace evidence in the over-redacted bible, in all likelyhood, there were Jews living in a way that very much mirrored the methods and teachings of Jesus the Christ for as much as 200 years before his birth, and the mistranslation "Jesus of Nazareth" is probably the biggest clue there, along with the relatively recent discoveries like the Dead Sea Scrolls. So, probably not started by him, and given the early tendencies of the church to pick and choose the gospels and texts that supported the political goals they had, and throw away the bits they didn't like, probably not really the spiritual movement he actually intended. An apt analogy would be, say, compare Jesus to Picasso.

There's an art movement happening for a while before Picasso comes on the scene. He doesn't invent it, but he does come along and do some stuff that's new, show a few things that are quite different, maybe a bit radical by the standards of the day. A while after he dies, someone goes around and collects up all the works he did, and all the works other people did copying his style a bit, but maybe not being quite so radical. Anything this person doesn't like, anything that's too offensive to them is burned, no matter if it's genius or not. Maybe some pieces get cut down a bit, so you only see part of the original painting. Some of the people who'd copied his style, their works get adopted and called "real" Picassos.
And then 2000 years later, this genius we know as Picasso, he's still popular, but those people seeing his works have no real clue that their message, that his style, was so much more than they still see. They have no idea that there are some fakes in there too. It's still a valid art movement, but the original principles have been twisted somewhat.

And that's how I feel about Christianity. There are things about Christianity that are great, messages about morality, about living, that are truly worth listening to. And then there are all the fakes - the people throughout time who have inserted in their own words, or their own interpretations, their own miscommunications about what Jesus wanted, or thought, or felt about any issue.

Personally, I think that love was his most important message, not hate, and there's no love involved in those christians who want to believe that their religion gives them carte blanche to address the faults in other peoples lives.

Matthew 7:3 -And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

reply to post by Icarus Rising


Swingarm 10:21 = 0112
Rev 22:13 = 1223

1223
0112
--------
11:11 the end is Near

11:11 Beginning of a whole new level or phase of development * Another dimension or frequency of experience * A PORTAL WAY OPENING *




[edit on 19-7-2008 by Swingarm]

[edit on 19-7-2008 by Swingarm]

reply to post by intrepid

originally posted by d11_m_na_c05
As stated . Why did the "gays" have to jump through hoops (assuming like the rest of us do) To get a permit and the xtians didn't ?

See whats going on here . They payed to have there demonstration. The nut jobs didn't.

First he says xtians, then he says nut jobs. Where does he say Philly 11?


[edit on 19-7-2008 by Icarus Rising]

reply to post by Icarus Rising


I'm not above God. When I discuss this with my religious friends I can never get a good answer for this question. What happens to tribal people who don''t take JC as their savior?

reply to post by Inannamute


I completely agree with your last paragraph, and the quote following it. The fact is, Christians are held to a higher standard because of Whom they represent. We often fail miserably to live up to that standard.

I said earlier that I wouldn't have done what the Philly 11 did. I do believe they had a right to do it, though.

reply to post by Cowgirlstraitup7

I think it breaks down like this, we all have a right to free speech, but when there is a seperation of church and state, the religious persons right is slightly down the totem pole as others rights. When government is concerned that is. That's just my ever so humble opinion.

That is an astute observation, and it may well be true. It is not equal treatment under the law, though, and it is therefore un-Constitutional.

The real issue is:
Is the event publicly funded or are the christians engaged in the practice of lying in service to and support of their corporation church?

The only references that I can find to the event being publicly funded are from christian blogs and christian dogma news sites.

If you take the two seconds to look it up you can see that OutFest is a not-for-profit organization that holds annual film festivals. Their website even points out that they need more donations to continue to hold the festivals. That doesn't sound like a publicly funded event to me.

Some christian propaganda sites even use the weaselly language: "at least partially funded by tax payers." To me, that means that the event has police and EMS working overtime that are paid for from the public coffers. Using their flawed "logic" every public event in every city in the country has been publicly funded to some degree.

I also see two different numbers being bandied about by the christians: $10,000 and $24,500 dollars. All city records being open to the public, you would think there would be some consistency. There isn't even mention of which department in the city government funded them.

So I want to see some proof of it being funded by tax payers' money before I even listen to all the hand waving and crying about infringed rights.

I do suspect that, being a film festival, that some of the film makers may have been funded by public art grants but that is a separate issue and can not be used as an indictment against the festival.

Jon

EDIT:Formatting.

[edit on 7.19.2008 by Voxel]

reply to post by Swingarm


Another good question. Not really on topic, but I like it.

Hebrews 10

16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;

17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.

18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.

That's the best answer I can give.

Does any one else see the similarities between how the Gays acted towards their critics and how Scientologist act towards their critics? It's really quite striking. Just an observation.

Google Video Link

[edit on 19-7-2008 by pavil]

reply to post by Voxel


You make good points. Still a public street with public access, though. Thanks for doing the additional research.

[edit on 19-7-2008 by Icarus Rising]

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic

The gay people weren't flaunting. They were having a gathering. The Christians showed up and stuck their faces in there. THEY flaunted their Christianity in the faces of the gay people. THEY caused a disturbance. They didn't have to attend.

A public gathering. They paid for it, through their taxes. I would not have attended, personally, but that is their right.

Things would have been different if it were not a public, tax-subsidized event.

You do get that, right? They paid for the event.

TheRedneck

reply to post by Voxel

So I want to see some proof of it being funded by tax payers' money before I even listen to all the hand waving and crying about infringed rights.

Third paragraph of the OP.

TheRedneck

Originally posted by TheRedneck
You do get that, right? They paid for the event.

Yeah, I get that. They had every right to attend. Absolutely. To attend. Not to bust in and INTERRUPT, OVERTAKE and attempt to SILENCE the event. They were infringing on the rights of those assembled gays.

Yes, they had every right to attend. I didn't say they didn't have the RIGHT, I said they didn't HAVE to attend.

What were the Christians doing, anyway? Trying to convince people to join their club, live their lifestyle, believe what they believe and raise their children in the club.

I'm sorry. I DO NOT believe that Christians would encourage or even allow a gay group to do the same at one of their functions. I just don't believe it.