Court says 'gay' rights trump Christian rights

reply to post by d11_m_na_c05

Everyone is different.

Yes. Even amongst Christians.

Free speech cannot be a defense against trying to take away a groups free speech.

Exactly. That is what I think really needs to be determined here. Was the Philly 11 trying to take away the OutFest right of assembly and free speech? I'm guessing you think they were. Because the city and police dropped the charges, I'm not so sure. I'm arguing on the side of the free speech rights of the Philly 11 while admitting they were walking a very fine line of acceptable behavior. I wouldn't have done what they did. Based on what I've read, though, and the dropped charges, I still think they had the right to be there and voice their opinion of the behavior being exhibited at the event. I don't approve of the bullhorn, either. If anything it should have been a silent protest and prayer vigil. What they did was counterproductive, at best.

Btw, this is the first civil post you have made to me in this thread. Thank you. If greater understanding and progress toward mutual tolerance can come out of this, that is a huge blessing.

This decision is a victory for free speech and recognizes the First Amendment right of organizations to control the message of their permitted events.

phillypride.org...

Well then Case closed.

I get inflammatory on purpose. As that's what was happening at this rally.
I dont care what you like nor don't like . Nor why . ( I mean over all not in a mean way )
The thing is . You said "this isn't about gays VS religion. But quote scripture in every post (Or were)
Then its only about free speech . As long as it isn't on your front lawn . (Which i agree with . But it does fall under my rights. As you see them)
Now it has been decided that the permit holders have the right to control the content of there permits space/time. ----------
So this is the end of the thread right? Or do we need another source still ?
[Edit-rewording]

[edit on 22-7-2008 by d11_m_na_c05]

reply to post by Annee

Icarus Rising - you and every one else totally lose me when you go to the Bible. It is the biggest turn off I can think of.

That is nearly the definition of a stumblingblock, which is my word for it from my keyboard.

You may quote whatever source material you wish in your posts to me. I am not trying to control you or your actions, nor am I trying to put you on the defensive. Please don't project that onto me.

Icarus Rising - - you are the one who started this thread.

The point of a forum/blog is to have discussion/debate. This is not your church. This is not your religious peers.

The Bible is YOUR stumbling block - not mine.

Look at it this way. You have stepped out of your church - - you are trying to communicate with people outside your church. You have no idea what any of us believe. Some may be Christians. Some may be Atheists. Some may come from a metaphysical belief. Some may be Muslim.

We got it! YOU believe the bible.

reply to post by d11_m_na_c05


Not so fast.

Imo, you can't put "free speech" and "control the message" in the same sentence when it comes to an event on public property, permitted or not. Again, imo, that is not the content nor is it the intent of the First Amendment.

Btw, your source is biased.

reply to post by Icarus Rising


Ok then you think its fine for us to protest weddings and funerals on public property cause we don't like the message of owning a woman .
Or dont think that there body is fit to go into our mother earth .
That about sums it up right? Just in MY words not yours.

Was not the message of the protesters "controlled" by there group? Or are we claiming temp insanity now?

[I warned you my posts are ironic and meant to get you to argue my points for me.]

[edit on 22-7-2008 by d11_m_na_c05]

reply to post by Annee

Icarus Rising - - you are the one who started this thread.

Yes, I did. I take full responsibility for starting this thread.

The point of a forum/blog is to have discussion/debate. This is not your church. This is not your religious peers.

Ok. (?)

The Bible is YOUR stumbling block - not mine.

No. The Bible is God's word revealed to man via the Holy Spirit to me.

Look at it this way. You have stepped out of your church - - you are trying to communicate with people outside your church. You have no idea what any of us believe. Some may be Christians. Some may be Atheists. Some may come from a metaphysical belief. Some may be Muslim.

Ok. (?)

We got it! YOU believe the Bible. (capitalization of Bible added by me)

Yes, I do.

I do my best to communicate as clearly and concisely as possible with everyone I respond to.

You do realize you are trying to control my actions, don't you? That really isn't your prerogative, you know.

reply to post by d11_m_na_c05


You are free to exercise you First Amendment rights whereever and whenever you see fit (as long as you can find the location of those you want to exercise it against). I would caution you that we live increasingly in a police state these days (you might think that is because of us awful Christians, though), and you might get falsely arrested and imprisoned for it.

Originally posted by Icarus Rising

I will say you would probably be treated a lot better by the Christians you were trying to sodomize with satan than the Philly 11 were by the participants in OutFest.

That is insulting. That is pure hatred and prejudice.

reply to post by Annee


No, it is a hypothetical, rhetorical situation that probably would never happen. Are you reading in context, or cherrypicking?

Icarus Rising - You just DON'T get it.

You say one thing about understanding/inclusion - then post from your Bible perspective.

You have no interest in communicating/discussing a topic. Everyone here has tried to discuss and communicate with you - but you just can't do it without bringing the bible into it.

This topic is about law/legalities. As others have already posted - it has nothing to do with what anyone's God believe is or isn't. It has NOTHING to do with the bible.

OK - I'm done - because there is no point in continuing trying to exchange intelligent concepts/ideas.

reply to post by Annee


You are cracking me up now.

If you think I can't see through your skirts all a flutter, high color in your cheeks, "Why, I never!", face saving exit, then you haven't seen my profile where the bio says, "Born at night, but not last night!"

Suit yourself. May peace be with you.

Originally posted by Quazga
What I don't get is how come we don't see more Christians picketing the war? I do see Quakers, but that's about it. I do understand the picketing of abortion clinics, although I don't agreee. It comes from a "Don't kill the baby" mentality, which even though I am pro-choice, I completely understand from a theological perspective the picketing of Abortion clicnics.


What I don't understand AT ALL, is the picketing of a movement of Lovers.

If these Christians would put so much energy into protesting something that kills and causes great suffering to innocents, as opposed to something that is all about love, then it would make much more sense.

These are nothing more than Homophobes disguised as Christians.


[edit on 22-7-2008 by Quazga]

Your post helps to show the hypocrisy of current Christianity, although following the bible completely is impossible for anyone, Christian or not, to do in the first place. Some Christians acknowledge this but think it does not mean the bible as a whole should be ignored, I disagree, if you can nit pick what it is about a religion you want to support then it isn’t much of a religion, and if your religion makes it impossible for you to not do so then it makes it even less of one.

Christians currently are not true Christians; they are a variation of their own religion, defying their own religious motives. That alone should give you a clue they are not to be reasoned with or taken seriously.

If a group of gay rights fanatics came to an Easter Sunrise Service in a public park, and demanded the right to speak about their cause during the service,would they be allowed to do that?

The audience would most likely riot.

And that was exactly what those idiots were silenced for in this case. Because their words were designed to provoke a violent reaction, the police had every right to stop them.

Just as you can be arrested for standing up in a crowded theater and screaming "Fire", when theire is no fire; so can you be arrested for standing up and provoking a violent reaction from a public crowd of people.

There have always been some limitations on speech, and only an idiot could not see that this is one of them.

Oh that's right, the fanatics of both sides ARE idiotic, aren't they?

Originally posted by OldMedic
If a group of gay rights fanatics came to an Easter Sunrise Service in a public park, and demanded the right to speak about their cause during the service,would they be allowed to do that?

Apparently that is a hypothetical question and should not be answered. All Christians love everyone and would just circle around the gays peacefully and pray harder than they've ever seen a group of Christians pray before.

And that was exactly what those idiots were silenced for in this case. Because their words were designed to provoke a violent reaction, the police had every right to stop them.

Bingo. A bunch of nutters that wanted to get on the news to spread their message of ridiculousness, and violence would have severely helped their cause.

Oh that's right, the fanatics of both sides ARE idiotic, aren't they?

Without a doubt, fanaticism in any belief system is not good in the least.

reply to post by Icarus Rising


You are making this post about merits of Christianity Icarus Rising, you can argue the merits of a religion until the cows come home, and arguing the merits of these people as individuals is harder to do. Put away the bible and stop making this about religion, that’s the reason this post has taken place, because you wanted this to be an issue involving religion and it just isn’t, just like those people wanted to make a fun event for gays an issue of their own faith.

You’ve been polarizing debates by bringing religion into them since the day I arrived at ATS and began posting. It’s nice to see people call you out on it.

[edit on 22-7-2008 by rapinbatsisaltherage]

reply to post by rapinbatsisaltherage


It IS about religion and the free exercise thereof.
When Christians in America are barred from public venues to speak their beliefs,
wherever (even if Philly is a gay capital or something),
then we are going against everything our founding fathers wanted for this nation.
Special 'free speech zones' are an abomination to our liberties.

Public nudity and lewd behavior in front of children is NOT something worthy to defend TO THE POINT of taking away the freedoms of Religion.

Not to mention the right to assemble

If these people wanted to take over our downtown for a few days or a week(for outfest), I would be disgusted and hampered, as I live in downtown.
Your sex-life is your choice.
I don't have to see you come out of the closet.
'Get a room'


[edit on 22-7-2008 by Clearskies]

reply to post by rapinbatsisaltherage


I started this thread because the topic was of interest to me. The topic being Free Speech rights in a setting such as this. I knew that the two groups involved, being currently so diametrically opposed, would stir a lively debate here on the boards. I honestly didn't know, but probably should have, that worldnetdaily was so biased in favor of the Christian viewpoint. When I did realize that, I posted the OutFest press release on the incident in the interests of fairness.

Yes, I am a fundamental evangelical Christian. I want to save your soul from the devil (and boy do I think yours needs saving). This thread is teaching me better how to go about that. I don't want to start a fight, I want to help to end one.

But thanks for psycho-analyzing me via remote viewing. You are really something. I hope you will accept payment in kind thoughts.

reply to post by Clearskies


When Christians in America are barred from public venues to speak their beliefs,


They were not barred because of their religion.

reply to post by Icarus Rising


topic being Free Speech rights in a setting such as this.

So stick to the topic, quit the bible quotes.

I want to save your soul from the devil

Now you’re bringing my soul into this? Why are you so incapable of debating an issue with out your religion clouding your argument and judgment? Leave my soul out of this and stay on topic.