Court says 'gay' rights trump Christian rights

If gays want to be accepted by society, having stupid little parades such as this isn't exactly the best course of action. In fact, it could only hurt their chances.

You don't see hetero's having parades proclaiming how proud they are to be straight do you?

Don't see hetero's designating the opposite of a rainbow the symbol of heterosexuality and plastering it all over their cars do you?


The answer to both is no.

Be gay all you want, just don't demand people "accept it" for whatever reason.

Originally posted by slackerwire
If gays want to be accepted by society, having stupid little parades such as this isn't exactly the best course of action. In fact, it could only hurt their chances.

You don't see hetero's having parades proclaiming how proud they are to be straight do you?

So do you have a problem with Caribana(celebrates Carib and South American heretage)? How about Greek festivals? Italian festivals?

Edit to add: What about the Million Man March?

[edit on 20-7-2008 by intrepid]

I am shocked, dismayed and somewhat baffled by the number of religious bigots posting on this forum. I thought religion was a private matter.

Believers should focus on keeping THEIR a$$es out the the fiery pits of hell, and let anyone else (who doesn't believe the world was created in 7 days, that making love outside of marriage is a sin, or that a bearded guy spends all of his time watching this rock and it's weird irrationnal inhabitants) get on with their lives.

Homosexuals don't try and save anyone's soul by beating them up. Or torturing and burning them. Or beheading them.

Religious fanatics, on the other hand, do. So on a purely rational basis, which is the more dangerous for society. The gay, or the believer ?

If I initiate a rally, the subject of which is how pleased I am to be able to have sex with my soulmate (who is a women), would I get a bunch of wankers trying to crucify me because I "fornicate" ?

If you choose to believe that gay people are sinners, good for you. But throwing it in their faces at every opportunity serves no purpose other than pissing them and me off. I think (yeah I don't believe, I think !) people who worship any god are deluded, dangerous and psychologically weak. I don't walk into my local church every sunday to tell them.

Respect others. As long as they respect you. Believers are incapable of this. Because they can't come to terms with the fact that THEIR truth is not everyones truth. Hence the crusades. And the middle east. Thanks, believers ! A quote about a rafter and an eye comes to mind...

reply to post by daniel191159


It is not up to you to decide for me when I have achieved my goal. It is up to me. I continue to have opinions about the posts in this thread which I started. I am responding with them.

I try not to take pride in anything. Pride is one of the seven deadly sins.

I am overwhelmingly impressed by the awesome power of the Creator God and His Son Jesus Christ. I mean here we are, discussing the merits of His Law and His Sacrifice thousands of years after the fact. There must be something to it for the discussion to go on this long.

Jesus Christ fulfilled the Law. No one else could or will. The Law showed us our need for a Savior. The unsaved remain in bondage to sin and death under the letter of the Law.

reply to post by Icarus Rising


"It is not up to you to decide for me when I have achieved my goal. It is up to me. I continue to have opinions about the posts in this thread which I started. I am responding with them."

I must ask then, what exactly IS your goal in posting? Also, I appologize if you felt that the completeness of your objective(s) was called into question. I just felt the need to point out that because of the way you are presenting your opinion you are not convincing anyone and that IF your goal was to convince others of the correctness of your opinion then you were wasting your breath.

"The Law showed us our need for a Savior. The unsaved remain in bondage to sin and death under the letter of the Law."

I'm not sure of the nature of the vague concept of "the Law" which you refer to but I remain wanting to know of your opinion regarding the Old Testament as current divine law. In order for me to achieve a more complete understanding of both your faith and your stance on current social issues please indicate wether your belief falls under the range of choice A, B, or C given in my previous post on this thread.

Icarusrising
True Christians want others to be aware of the consequences of making bad choices, and to offer another way, The Way, to true fulfillment.

All I am able to add to this (fairly ridiculous) argument is this; Icarucrising seems to be making some sort of clarion call for all "Christians" [of whose group I claim to be one] yet his/her fury is derived from a name "Icarus," that is from the pantheon stories of the Greek gods. So what kind of argument can a "hardcore" "Christian" make when his/her name is pagan on it's face?

By the way, regardless of the video I am of the belief that my gay friends are fine in the eye of God, so long as they are living by the golden rule. Your "gayness" does not define you. You are who you are, if that means you are a heartless war mongering [hetro] Exxon official you are more likely to spend eternity in hell than any gay person who loves their neighbors and does good in the communities and the lives of their families.
God loves good acts. Love knows no sex.

Obs out


Edit due to typing inability

[edit on 20-7-2008 by observer]

reply to post by daniel191159


My goal in posting is to respond with my opinion to the other posts in this thread which I have an opinion about. Ultimately, I can't convince anybody of anything. People convince themselves based on their own convictions. That's fine by me. If the Spirit can speak through me and influence one person reading this thread to seek Christ, that is more than I could ever hope for, and a blessing from God.

James 5

19 Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him;

20 Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.

Luke 15

10 Likewise, I say unto you, there is joy in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner that repenteth.

The Law I was referring to is the Mosaic Law of the Old Testament. The answer I gave you on that subject is the only one you will get from me right now. The unsaved are in bondage to sin and death under the letter of the Law.

Romans 8

1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

reply to post by observer


For the record, I have applied my own ending to the myth of Icarus. Other members are wrong to assume that I am referring to the first flight of Icarus, when, full of angst and fury and disobedience to his father, he flew too close to the sun and melted the wax on his wings, precipitating a precipitous plunge into the sea. Oh no, my Icarus Rising survived his plunge and was saved from the icy deep, resurrected to soar again into the heavens mindful of the danger of his exploits.

Your gay friends will be in the same boat as the Exxon exec unless they profess Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior and turn away from their sin. They can try to stand before The Judge on their own works, but are likely to burn up like hay and straw.

reply to post by slackerwire


Hmmm based on your logic. I guess we could assume you feel women's rights parades as well as black equality parades of the past stupid?
They parade as they are a minority struggling for their rights. As for rainbows and stickers, we have all seen the naked lady stickers (you know the same symbol on the back of 18 wheeler flaps)? What exactly is that sticker asserting other than straight and sexually active? There are others as well. At least the gays did not plaster something to their car that might be offensive to lets say children? I am going to ask you to go to Starbucks and wake up or quit posting for shear reason of posting...




~Hypno

Originally posted by Icarus Rising
[

Your gay friends will be in the same boat as the Exxon exec unless they profess Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior and turn away from their sin. They can try to stand before The Judge on their own works, but are likely to burn up like hay and straw.

So sayeth Icarus due to your.... prophetic ability? Willingness to bend Greek Mythology (and hence any other story that comes our way) to fit your needs?
I don't see MDiv, of PhD at the end of your arguments, I see youtube and other internet brick-a-brak. I really do have friends who have studied the bible in Aramaic and Greek who say that all your arguments are complete bunk. Now you are in your rights to say "a degree means nothing" or some such such thing, but reading the words of Jesus Christ in their original non-Orthodox, Catholic, King James bastardization is a totally different thing. So from where does your "absolute" biblical inerrancy come?

"The Law I was referring to is the Mosaic Law of the Old Testament. The answer I gave you on that subject is the only one you will get from me right now. The unsaved are in bondage to sin and death under the letter of the Law. "

That's hardly an answer at all, now is it? Generally, in a conversation such as the one we have been having, when one person asks a question, the other person gives an answer such that the people conversing can better understand one another.

Do you choose not to give an answer because you are trying to prove a point or is it rather that you don't know what you believe regarding the validity of the Old Testament?

reply to post by observer


What is wrong with having my own take on the myth of Icarus? If that disqualifies me from discerning Biblical truth, then I don't know what to tell you.

Sin separates us from God whether we are saved or not. The difference is if we are saved the separation isn't permanent. I believe homosexuality is the unnatural use of God's gift, our bodies, according to Romans 1. You are free to agree or disagree with me on that. You are free to question whether I am a "True Christian" or not. My comment on what True Christians do is founded on the Great Commission of Matthew 28:18-20. I believe it. God's Truth is incorruptible, discernible through the empowerment of the Holy Spirit.

[edit on 20-7-2008 by Icarus Rising]

reply to post by daniel191159


Oh, I know what I believe all right. I believe you are trying to trap me into taking a stand regarding the validity of OT Law. Sorry to disappoint you.

I will say that the Spirit of the Law transcends the Letter of the Law.

Whoa, whoa, whoa. When did this become a thread on theology? It's about christians crashing Outfest.

"Oh, I know what I believe all right. I believe you are trying to trap me into taking a stand regarding the validity of OT Law. Sorry to disappoint you. I will say that the Spirit of the Law transcends the Letter of the Law. "



If your belief was as sound as you say it is then, I assure you, you could not be trapped by it. A belief you can become trapped by is not a belief...it is a burden. Your refusal to take a stance on your beliefs doesn't disappoint me in the least. It tells me a lot about where your "comfort zone" is in your religious convictions.

Personally, I dislike philosophical "comfort zones". Their persistence leaves a person complacent and sloppy in the practice of their beliefs. The part that really makes me shake my head is why you have been unable to push me out of my philosophical "comfort zone". I know quite well that I can be pushed out of this realm of complacency. I think it has something to do with the lack of reason in your claims in combination with your seeming inability/unwillingness to present anything that even remotely can be called a persuasive idea.

However, I would like to know the differences between the "Spirit of the Law" and the "Letter of the Law"?

[Edit] Intrepid, after posting this I saw your post. I will resume my debate with Icarus Rising via U2Us so that this thread can better focus on the original topic. Thanks

[edit on 20-7-2008 by daniel191159]

Originally posted by Icarus Rising
reply to post by observer

 

For the record, I have applied my own ending to the myth of Icarus. Other members are wrong to assume that I am referring to the first flight of Icarus, when, full of angst and fury and disobedience to his father, he flew too close to the sun and melted the wax on his wings, precipitating a precipitous plunge into the sea. Oh no, my Icarus Rising survived his plunge and was saved from the icy deep, resurrected to soar again into the heavens mindful of the danger of his exploits.

Your gay friends will be in the same boat as the Exxon exec unless they profess Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior and turn away from their sin. They can try to stand before The Judge on their own works, but are likely to burn up like hay and straw.

I knew it, your post was deception under the guise of "rights". As for the rights, it's pretty fringing simple,yes the Christians had a right to be where they were in your video. Would the Christians have a right to be there if they were committing murder? Of course not, that is against the law! Disturbing the peace & stalking is also against the law. The total embodiment of this thread really just attacks gays, debates their lifestyle
and pushes your religion. Your last post frankly implies that if gays do not accept your religion they are going to hell. I believe you finally shot yourself in the foot. This private club has rules and you just broke them sir. Your previous posts imply that you are trying to be fair. HAVE YOU READ THEM? They are in direct conflict of your last post. Hmm kinda sounds like that book you've been quoting.. I have absolutely nothing against the Christian religion. Many of its teachings and ideas are quite beautiful. Many of my books writings are much like the bibles (none sense) so I am not arguing with the religion. I am arguing with you...... I hope the mods come to their senses and close your offensive thread.

You overstepped the line buddy..

~Hypno

Originally posted by Icarus Rising
reply to post by observer

 

What is wrong with having my own take on the myth of Icarus? If that disqualifies me from discerning Biblical truth, then I don't know what to tell you.

Sin separates us from God whether we are saved or not. The difference is if we are saved the separation isn't permanent. I believe homosexuality is the unnatural use of God's gift, our bodies, according to Romans 1. You are free to agree or disagree with me on that. You are free to question whether I am a "True Christian" or not. My comment on what True Christians do is founded on the Great Commission of Matthew 28:18-20. I believe it. God's Truth is incorruptible, discernible through the empowerment of the Holy Spirit.

[edit on 20-7-2008 by Icarus Rising]

Well you discount your whole fundamentalist argument by saying it is "ok to have your own interpretation of the myth of Icarus". By this logic you are ok with reinterpreting religious texts to ones taste. This you cannot argue against as the original text of Icarus does NOT agree with your account. So if you are ok with reinterpretation of literal texts why are you so against the reinterpretation of others? Are you and your texts best? Better, Best? Or is it that you view the story or Icarus as a moral parable that teaches us something, and you are attached what you believe to that to expand on that and give it deeper meaning to you? If this is the case, what makes your "interpretation" of the NT so definitive and absolute? Jesus was real, he died for us (as far as I am concerned) but was his word not intentionally confounding. For the development of mankind, for the changing world. This world is not stuck in the same sand soaked backward backwater that Jesus lived in, and nether is God himself, that is why Jesus (not Paul, who was NOT a disciple of Jesus until is gained him some earthly fame) was so obtuse. Paul was after control (and most of the anti gay arguments come from his writings), not converts. Paul was not even a Jew, Paul did not even KNOW Jesus when he lived. Again, Paul wanted converts, and hatred sold just as well then a it does now. Jesus was after rebels, I hope I am a rebel, God loves the different, why else would he create the platypus? We will have to agree to disagree on this. I (begrudgingly) respect your opinion for what it is, yours. That of a mind God created, I just believe you are wrong.

Originally posted by Being_From_Earth
I don't think Christians should be able to tell people what they can and cant believe and what they can and cant do morally.
And I think if gays want to be gay they should be allowed after all its there body mind and soul they get to choose what they do with it.
However I would support the Christians in some way in telling the gays to shut up and go away and be gay elsewhere, because im sick of having to see there gayness.

[edit on 19/7/08 by Being_From_Earth]

Wow you sound EXACTLY like a southerner in the 60's talking about black people!

Faith/religion is a Choice

Homosexuality is a God given right.

reply to post by daniel191159


No, I'm comfortable discussing anything Biblical. Its just not the topic of this thread, and I'm familiar with derailment tactics. That is the trap I spoke of. We can talk about whether or not its ok to eat shellfish or own slaves another time, ok? You are welcome to your feelings of superiority, as well. I am comfortable in the role of a servant, I always have been. It's just that now I serve my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, and have no earthly master.

If you want to know more about the Spirit and the Letter of the Law, I suggest you read the Book of Romans. If you've already read it, maybe you should read it again.