A Comfirmation And A Personal Story

I would like to start this thread off with a response to a post I viewed in a different thread:

Originally posted by spines
reply to post by darkbluesky

 

Just to play devils advocate:

If the truth is that the government had thousands of civilians killed in other crashes that day, could it be assumed that flight 93 was shot down and 'lets roll', hero story completely fabricated; further propoganda to stear the publics eye away from the truth...

A bit theatric, but if true...it was gobbled up hook, line and sinker by the American public.

Not that I agree with the point (I am still unsure with the entire issue), but it would seem to fit in that version of the truth.

[edit on 6/27/0808 by spines]

Yes, flight 93 was shot down. Yes, the "Lets Roll" story was fabricated. It was introduced to induce a swelling amongst the populace of what we call patriotism but what is in all actuality nationalism. Intense feelings of nationalism amongst the populace is an absolute must for any fascist political regime to succeed. Yes, it was swallowed hook line and sinker. Do not give too much credit to the average American citizen for he/she is not on average as smart as we would assume. I equate the situational awareness of the average American citizen to a story of an old Serbian woman who was interviewed in the mid 1990's during the war in the Balkans When she was asked by a journalist why the Serbs were at war with the Croats and Muslims, she replied with a recount of atrocities that she had heard on the radio. When the journalist asked the woman why she believed the news without being presented any verified facts to back up the claim, she responded to the journalist with a blank stare. After a few seconds she responded with a statement full of naivety found in small children: "Why would they lie?!?".

What proof you may ask do I have to be able to post that flight 93 was absolutely, positively shot down? I've seen the CRITIC . How have I seen the critic? I am a 10 year Air Force veteran who has spent his entire career working in the Intelligence Community. It is a well known fact amongst the community that the "official" story about flight 93 is a lie. Why am I sharing this information now? Because after 10 years of service I can not in good conscience continue working in a career field that has become overwhelmed with terrorist paranoia.

Ever heard of counter-radicalization? It is a program enacted recently whose goal is to identify and remove those individuals, deemed potentials, before they become terrorists. Think about that.

That's all for now. I need a smoke. I look forward spending a lot of time on the forum.

Thanks for your interesting contribution.

Would you be able to give a few more hints of how you know it was shot down? I'm not asking for proof, just some reasons about why you think it was shot down.

Cool.

reply to post by Phalid


Phalid,

Is "CRITIC" an acronym? Sorry, not familiar with the term. Thank you for your post.
People of good conscience welcome.

Would you care to elaborate on counter-radicalization? How it's being implemented if you know?

Thanks!

Welcome friend.

flight 93 never crashed where they claimed it crashed there was no evidence at all that it had cashed in that field, except for the completely hollow statements from the news reports. plane crashes do terribile things to the ground around them there was little scarring for a plane crash.

[edit on 19-7-2008 by caballero]

Originally posted by Phalid
I've seen the CRITIC . How have I seen the critic? I am a 10 year Air Force veteran who has spent his entire career working in the Intelligence Community.

I would like to hear a little more about this CRITIC, i also work in the Intelligence community.

Also an Air Force vet.

reply to post by Phalid

I've seen the CRITIC.

Critical Intelligence Report?

Yes, it was swallowed hook line and sinker. Do not give too much credit to the average American citizen for he/she is not on average as smart as we would assume.

Then you wouldn't expect the members of ATS to swallow your story without evidence, correct?

Pilot name?
Aircraft type?
Aircraft tail number?
Weapon type?
Fighter squadron?
Base of origin?

So what were are ignoring once again:

Phone Calls;Several phone calls to family members and 911 call from Ed Felt. They all paint the same picture. They all state that some passengers were getting ready to storm the cockpit.

The FDR; shows that all the engines, all systems running normal.

Witnesses; not one witness to the plane getting hit, although several witnessed the plane going down.

This is simple evidence to refute the shoot down theory.

Originally posted by ThroatYogurt
So what were are ignoring once again:

Phone Calls;Several phone calls to family members and 911 call from Ed Felt. They all paint the same picture. They all state that some passengers were getting ready to storm the cockpit.

The FDR; shows that all the engines, all systems running normal.

Witnesses; not one witness to the plane getting hit, although several witnessed the plane going down.

This is simple evidence to refute the shoot down theory.

How does simple evidence refute a theory? In the scientific and legal community it doesent. What serial number did the match to the FDR? can you post that information? I have asked for it on this forum, searched for it myself, and been unable to find any.

Looking forward to that - JP.

[edit on 19-7-2008 by jprophet420]

reply to post by jprophet420


The FDR is part of the mix.

you had phone calls from passengers to 911 operators.

you had witnesses and none of them state the plane was smoking, damaged, etc.

you had the debris field.. nothing but light debris found far away.

Throw the FDR in there and it's a cherry on top.

Originally posted by ThroatYogurt
you had phone calls from passengers to 911 operators.

Alleged phone calls. Prove to me that they were really made.

Originally posted by ThroatYogurt
you had witnesses and none of them state the plane was smoking, damaged, etc.

We've been over your witness statements in other threads, ThroatYogurt, so don't try and pollute this thread with them. NONE of your witness statements were able to confirm that the alleged plane that they allegedly saw was Flight 93. Also, many of those witnesses contradicted themselves with certain aspects of the plane's colour scheme, amongst other inconsistencies.

Originally posted by ThroatYogurt
Throw the FDR in there and it's a cherry on top.

Unless the alleged FDR has been matched by serial number to the alleged Flight 93, then all you are left with is a very rotten cherry.

reply to post by tezzajw


Tezza,

The obvious evidence is there. You can echo your polluted statements over and over. It does NOT change the facts.

Have you contacted DMORT?

Have you contacted Wally Miller?

Their contact information is readily available.

Have you contacted any of the witnesses?

Have you contacted the victims families and asked them if they spoke to their loved ones? How would one start a conversation like this...

"Hi my name is (x) and I was wondering. Are you SURE it was your (x) you were speaking with minutes before they died? I mean really, it could have been voice morphing. We DO have that technology you know."

Keep living in your state of paranoia, it does make the world that much more interesting.

Originally posted by ThroatYogurt
The obvious evidence is there.

It's only obvious to those who choose to believe it, without confirmed proof.

Show me the serial numbers matching the FDR to Flight 93.

Show me ONE witness who was able to confirm that the plane they saw flying in the air was Flight 93, N591UA.

You can't.

reply to post by tezzajw


Echo Echo Echo .........


Tezzajw...

You choose to believe what you want. When will you do the research to back up your conspiracies? When will YOU offer ANY evidence that contradicts what is known to all?

Originally posted by ThroatYogurt
Have you contacted the victims families and asked them if they spoke to their loved ones? How would one start a conversation like this...

"Hi my name is (x) and I was wondering. Are you SURE it was your (x) you were speaking with minutes before they died? I mean really, it could have been voice morphing. We DO have that technology you know."

I do recall one family member thinking something seemed odd with the conversation held... When I have slept, maybe I will look that up.

For now, any who want to find that are welcome to.

And as for your statement above... You make it sound as if just because it would be an extremely awkward and emotional question to ask, that means it was NOT voice morphing. And that simply doesn't follow.

If the morphing was good enough, the family member will "be sure," no matter what you point out to them. That is something they hold onto, ersatz or not.

You are awfully invested emotionally in this matter. What's your interest?

reply to post by Amaterasu



ATTENTION...Extreme appeal to emotion!

Amaterasu,

I think of those sitting in the planes. How scared they were. How they must have felt calling their loved ones.

I think of Ed Felt, scared and alone in a bathroom on the airplane. Talking to a 911 operator. He died alone.

So many of these people died alone. Scared. Alone. Some didn't get to talk to loved ones. They sat in their seats and prayed to their God.

Then I look at what the few men did. They did their best to get into the cockpit. They said "no way!" They had to know their efforts would save possibly thousands.

Those brave heroes were a win for our country. The terrorists did not win that battle.

Flight 93 was one of the few bright spots. (if you could call it that) during the entire time. Think, if we knew the rules on all the planes, would there have been the death and distruction that happened?

The 19 hijackers sucker punched our nation. 4 of them failed.

Some conspiracy theorist's claim none of this happened. Mind you there is not any evidence to this. I take this as pissing on those that were on that flight, those that learned the rules and won the fight.

I find this voice morphing theory total bull poop. You have to know the person to talk to them. Tell me how that happened!

Originally posted by ThroatYogurt
reply to post by jprophet420

 

The FDR is part of the mix.

you had phone calls from passengers to 911 operators.

you had witnesses and none of them state the plane was smoking, damaged, etc.

you had the debris field.. nothing but light debris found far away.

Throw the FDR in there and it's a cherry on top.

You evaded the question (entire reply quoted for "security" as LaBTop coined). The official report from the NTSB for Flight 93 misses the FDR serial number. Please explain yet ANOTHER anomaly surrounding Flight 93.

I'm not into this numbers thing at all, but does 93 in Flight 93 have anything to do with the WTC bombing in 1993? Just throwing that out there...

The FDR; shows that all the engines, all systems running normal.

That is irrelevant.

Some conspiracy theorist's claim none of this happened. Mind you there is not any evidence to this. I take this as pissing on those that were on that flight, those that learned the rules and won the fight.

It's got nothing to do with discrediting anyones memory (if it happened) - it's got everything to do with the lack of evidence. Everywhere you look, there are holes (no pun intended).

The investigations are a joke. There is some oncrete proof out there that things are not at all as the official report says they were (for the bits they did bother to investigate). For what it cost to investigate, I'll take the money and investigate - PROPERLY!

I'm not going to run over what has been said over and over again in this forum. Just read.

I find this voice morphing theory total bull poop. You have to know the person to talk to them. Tell me how that happened!

You don't need to a know a person who is a fabrication. This is the part you don't seem to be grasping.

Back on topic...

@OP: I look forward to reading more. Sounds interesting.

[edit on 19-7-2008 by mirageofdeceit]

Originally posted by mirageofdeceit
You evaded the question (entire reply quoted for "security" as LaBTop coined). The official report from the NTSB for Flight 93 misses the FDR serial number. Please explain yet ANOTHER anomaly surrounding Flight 93.

what do you mean misses? Honestly, I don't know what you are talking about.

Dude... you say this:

I'm not into this numbers thing at all, but does 93 in Flight 93 have anything to do with the WTC bombing in 1993? Just throwing that out there...

Then you throw this out there:

The FDR; shows that all the engines, all systems running normal.

That is irrelevant.


Gotta tell you, I was scratching my head at that one.

What is more relevant? Flight 93 happens to have the same number as the year 1993 when the WTC was bombed.

or:

The flight data recorded actually shows what many witnesses stated, does not support a shoot down...etc.

Originally posted by ThroatYogurt
reply to post by Amaterasu

 

ATTENTION...Extreme appeal to emotion!

Amaterasu,

I think of those sitting in the planes. How scared they were. How they must have felt calling their loved ones.

Ok....

I think of Ed Felt, scared and alone in a bathroom on the airplane. Talking to a 911 operator. He died alone.

If you take the Official Conspiracy Theory, that is likely true. Maybe the plane was landed between takeoff and another plane left from the field and impacted, being radio controlled. And maybe he was gathered with the rest and, I dunno, shot or is a prisoner now... You and putting yourself in a presumed position. But you don't know this is how it actually played out.

So many of these people died alone. Scared. Alone. Some didn't get to talk to loved ones. They sat in their seats and prayed to their God.

If the OCT is believed, I suppose this is correct. But what does this emotional working of oneself up have to do with all the other data on the incident?

Then I look at what the few men did. They did their best to get into the cockpit. They said "no way!" They had to know their efforts would save possibly thousands.

IF the OCT is correct, maybe, but I can't imaging they would have known the final destination and intent, so you're reaching here. I would think they would have presumed a standard hijack. IF the OCT is correct. But this may not have been how it went down at all.

Those brave heroes were a win for our country. The terrorists did not win that battle.

Depends on who the real terrorists were. In my view, the terrorists won big time. Cheney, Bush, Wolfowitz, Rove, and et al. Those poor souls were sacrificed at a very evil altar.

Flight 93 was one of the few bright spots. (if you could call it that) during the entire time. Think, if we knew the rules on all the planes, would there have been the death and distruction that happened?

Sorry. "Rules on all the planes...?" Not sure what your point is here.

The 19 hijackers sucker punched our nation. 4 of them failed.

Oh, yada yada. You do go on with this sap, don't you. Only if you accept any number of things - unlikely to millions, billion and trillions to one - can you believe this tripe.

Some conspiracy theorist's claim none of this happened. Mind you there is not any evidence to this. I take this as pissing on those that were on that flight, those that learned the rules and won the fight.

There is a hell of a lot of evidence that could have been planted (and unless one takes those astronomical probabilities and accepts them, they had to have been planted). I take your ignoring all the evidence that is out there but ignored by the MSM as complicity in the Reichstag of the 21st century, knowingly or not.

And no appealing to emotion is going to cancel the logic and evidence.

I find this voice morphing theory total bull poop. You have to know the person to talk to them. Tell me how that happened!

Oh, easy. If I knew your mom's voice and could replicate it, and your mom was flying in a plane... If I called you and hysterically screamed (in your mom's voice) "Oh my god! The plane is being hijacked! I just wanted to say I love you! Oh, here they come I can't talk anymore!" and I hung up...

What do you think you will think? Even if the call was longer, would you be asking me about how the visit went with Aunt Sally, and when was "mine" and your dad's anniversary again? I doubt it. You would be asking question I could have answers ready for (in a hysterical voice). "How many are there?" "Can you do anything?" etc.

It would be a very simple matter to make you believe you spoke to your mom before her plane crashed into a building.

But the fact is... When you have Cheney insisting orders (to do nothing as a plane approaches the Pentagon) still stand, when you have the Pres and VP refusing to go under oath, and insisting they be questioned together (so their stories match!), how in the hell can you conclude nothing is wrong with the OCT picture?

Either you have an interest here or... Well, my guess is that you have an interest.

Gotta tell you, I was scratching my head at that one.

Hey this is a CT site right? I don't believe the idea but someone else might be interested. Just because you don't believe it doesn't mean you can't think of it anyway.

What is more relevant? Flight 93 happens to have the same number as the year 1993 when the WTC was bombed.

or:

The flight data recorded actually shows what many witnesses stated, does not support a shoot down...etc.

You missed another point: If the flight didn't exist, and the records surrounding the FDR are incorrectly recorded, then why do you even suggest the idea that the FDR data might be correct? If the flight didn't exist, the FDR data certainly didn't.

For all these discussions, you've yet to provide any evidence the flight existed. Where is it?

I'm getting tired of chasing you around these forums now. You're derailing thread after thread.

[edit on 19-7-2008 by mirageofdeceit]

Welcome Phalid, to a really great website, glad you joined us, now tell us all that you know.