why is there so much satanism disinfo here

I'm done defending myself and ATS, in your thread. I apologize for your decisions to use those particular items (the avatar, the name, the thread title) and, I apologize for other people's understandable reactions to your thread/avatar/name, and I apologize for pointing out what the cause may be attributed to. I apologize for posting my thoughts, defending myself and for generallly giving you the benefit of the doubt. I also apologize for trying to lighten the mood by adding some humor, and finally, I apologize because I don't seem to be able to communicate with you clearly, as you came to the conclusion I was not a christian but a satanist, and if I was a satanist, having an empty head was a no-no (an inference that me head is vacant...interesting conclusion). I'm a christian, to be clear, but everyone has a boiling point, even christians. I apologize for anything and everything that upsets you, irritates you, drives you to insult most of humanity (along with your buddy xclucifer) and makes you generally disagreeable on this topic.

However, the time has come for me to exit stage left from your thread, as this has become a negative, reoccuring cycle of the blame game. I'm outta here. Have a good day.

[edit on 30-7-2008 by undo]

reply to post by undo


i am certainly sorry that you feel that way. i do not recall you defending ATS or any reason you might have to, i believe i was defending ATS as well but hey. you judged and accused me, sorry but after that i expect you to get back to the discussion at hand. want to judge me and present "evidence" as to how you are right. i countered it, get back to that. nahhh....more rambling nothing. ok thanks. let me appologize for letting you and anyone else stray off topic at all. you were one of the few people that seemed to have enough between your ears to be worth listenign to a bit. apparently letting you derail the thread at great length was a big mistake. from now on i shall try to hamper any and all off topic discussion no matter how interesting since i will only be bashedif i decide it has eventually gone far enough.

you ask the question: why do people on ATS believe this way or act such'n'such a way about the word "satan" or 'satanism" or any related topic. i gave you my theory on it. you translated my theory on it to be a judgement of you personally. my theory on it was, that for many people, those all carry negative connotations so you can expect a negative response. no matter whether you agree with those negative connotations or not, the fact remains, they carry negative connotations for many people. you can't force people to feel/think a different way about it but you can offer your theories on why they should. be prepared, however, to face the same type of responses you dish out, et.al, it's a theory, not a fact, or it's a fable, not a fact, or it's a myth not a fact or it's YOUR OPINION NOT A FACT (i get this one all the time. hehe).

my suggestion to you is to just present your reasons for why you believe the current teachings are incorrect and then allow your thread contributors to actually respond to that. just generally ranting about it, isn't really a discussion thread, it's just an one-sided rant. rant threads are allowed on ATS, but expect some folks will try to have a discussion with you on the topic. that's gonna happen. you ain't on this planet alone.

Originally posted by undo
you ask the question: why do people on ATS believe this way or act such'n'such a way about the word "satan" or 'satanism" or any related topic. i gave you my theory on it. you translated my theory on it to be a judgement of you personally. my theory on it was, that for many people, those all carry negative connotations so you can expect a negative response. no matter whether you agree with those negative connotations or not, the fact remains, they carry negative connotations for many people. you can't force people to feel/think a different way about it but you can offer your theories on why they should. be prepared, however, to face the same type of responses you dish out, et.al, it's a theory, not a fact, or it's a fable, not a fact, or it's a myth not a fact or it's YOUR OPINION NOT A FACT (i get this one all the time. hehe).

my suggestion to you is to just present your reasons for why you believe the current teachings are incorrect and then allow your thread contributors to actually respond to that. just generally ranting about it, isn't really a discussion thread, it's just an one-sided rant. rant threads are allowed on ATS, but expect some folks will try to have a discussion with you on the topic. that's gonna happen. you ain't on this planet alone.

please reread the OP and tell me what i actually asked. apparently you completely forgot. what i took as a personal judgement was you telling me what i believe, what religion i follow, and what i think about things, when i stated NONE of these things here. please reread the OP and look at what you think i asked. that is apparently the problem. if you think i am ranting, please also feel free to point that out. i cannot make myself any more clear than i did with my column a column b post. apparently you ignored that as well. the biggest difference between us, is that i read what i am responding to. you have just come here to push your beliefs, tell me what mine must be, and then cry because i reminded you, more than once, that is not what the thread is about. i originally gave you credit for understanding it but that seems to have been a long time ago.
i will say this again. reread the OP and look at our post and then tell me that i asked what you say i did. you sure do assume alot.

reply to post by undo


since it was completely ignored the first time, does this cleare up what i am asking?

apparently i do need to spell out my original statement since it is misconstrued into an agenda about every two pages.

ATS is about the truth, right?

here is what i find here

pick one from column A and one from B

"A" is satanic. they pracice the following "B"

A --- B
freemasons --- human sacrifice
reptillians --- stealing children
catholics --- stealing animals
muslims --- demon conjuring
scientists --- animal sacrifice
politicians as a whole --- pedophillia
NWO --- child pornography
democrats but not republicans --- murder
republicans but not democrats --- mass hypnosis
aliens --- raising the dead
greys but not pleadians --- cannibalism
pleadians but not greys and on and on and on
and on and on and on


so, with no agenda, and no religion to push

i would like to know how, in a place about the truth, i can keep coming across those combos. each and every one can be looked into and there is NO PROOF of any of it. unless someone here has the magical proof of satanic cults practicing any one of those things, please let me know, we can break it to the FBI together since they still dont have any.

hmm, changing the rules are ye? no problemo. i can follow a bouncing ball but it won't last long -- i don't like basketball. let me be clear on that (last time i enjoyed a game of basketball, it was shaquille o'neal on orlando magic, doing what he does best. when he left to LA, i lost all interest in basketball. no biggie. i'm really not a sports person, anyway. i prefer mmorpgs if i'm going to think coimpetitively and even that loses its glamour rather quickly).

you want the reason why those things are in tandem with each other? you will have to ask the ops of the threads in question. (by the way, catholics do not equal bad. the catholic people are generally just awesome folks like other folks. it's their hierarchy that raises eyebrows and draws negative attention. some people just can't differentiate between a group and a leader. that's a thread all on its own. )

Originally posted by undo
hmm, changing the rules are ye? no problemo. i can follow a bouncing ball but it won't last long -- i don't like basketball. let me be clear on that (last time i enjoyed a game of basketball, it was shaquille o'neal on orlando magic, doing what he does best. when he left to LA, i lost all interest in basketball. no biggie. i'm really not a sports person, anyway. i prefer mmorpgs if i'm going to think coimpetitively and even that loses its glamour rather quickly).

you want the reason why those things are in tandem with each other? you will have to ask the ops of the threads in question. (by the way, catholics do not equal bad. the catholic people are generally just awesome folks like other folks. it's their hierarchy that raises eyebrows and draws negative attention. some people just can't differentiate between a group and a leader. that's a thread all on its own. )

changing the rules??????? have you read the OP??????????????? the rules have been the same on every page in which i had to reiterate them. the question is exactly the same, all i did was give you a pretty picture of what i meant to better illustrate to you what i was asking. (by the way i did not say catholics are bad up there, apparently you cannot read. of course i have a list of several thousand former altar boys that might tend to disagree with them being so awesome in general.) anyway sweety, i see that although you continue to post and reply, you also continue to ignore what i am saying so i guess i will just give up.

reread the OP, tell me what rules changed, address the OP or stop. please.

well if i look at your above list, i see no connection to the op. this is what i mean bout changing the rules. are you trying to say that in every thread posted on the topics you listed, they all say satanism is behind the B category?

by the way i did not say catholics are bad up there, apparently you cannot read

i didn't say you did. i'm just illustrating that not all ATS'ers think Catholic people are bad or satanic, or whatever. you were offering it up as evidence of something and I was correcting your perspective on it as far as my little corner of the world is concerned. can you refrain from insulting me please?

Originally posted by undo

by the way i did not say catholics are bad up there, apparently you cannot read

i didn't say you did. i'm just illustrating that not all ATS'ers think Catholic people are bad or satanic, or whatever. you were offering it up as evidence of something and I was correcting your perspective on it as far as my little corner of the world is concerned. can you refrain from insulting me please?

i was speaking of exactly what i have seen here. i was refering to what i witness. that was why i started the thread. what is wrong? still cannot read the OP. you have not addressed any of the questions i have offered you for about 20 posts or so now. so why am i bothering?

ps, you forgot to mention the altar boys who have a much different idea of how awesome MOST catholics are.

reply to post by undo


Yes, as I understand it, he is saying that he has seen Satanists accused of every activity on that list, in most cases without any real evidence to back up the claims, and he doesn't understand why Satanists can get blamed for doing all that bad stuff without anyone challenging the claims or requesting evidence, proof, etc.

In other words, if you badmouth about any other religious group, people want proof or call slander. If you badmouth Satanists, everyone just accepts it.

Not that I claim this to be the truth although I do see his point to some extent, I am saying that is what he is referring to/asking about in the OP.

the altar boys are being abused by the leadership, yes? not by the congregants. catholics can't assure that every leader in the catholic hierarchy is behaving. that's like asking you (are you male or female?) to be responsible for what other people of your gender do. or other people with your hair color or other people with your political platform or other people in your city, your neighborhood or family or simply other people who post on ATS. if your beef is generalizations and stereotyping, welcome to planet Earth.

Originally posted by Heike

Not that I claim this to be the truth although I do see his point to some extent, I am saying that is what he is referring to/asking about in the OP.

i better wait for his response, cause he may have something else in mind and think my response to you is off topic lol

oy, it's like walking on egg shells. tippity toe, tippity toe.

anyway, as an aside, do you believe real dragons existed? (i do, but that's a topic for another thread)

Originally posted by Heike
reply to post by undo

 

Yes, as I understand it, he is saying that he has seen Satanists accused of every activity on that list, in most cases without any real evidence to back up the claims, and he doesn't understand why Satanists can get blamed for doing all that bad stuff without anyone challenging the claims or requesting evidence, proof, etc.

In other words, if you badmouth about any other religious group, people want proof or call slander. If you badmouth Satanists, everyone just accepts it.

Not that I claim this to be the truth although I do see his point to some extent, I am saying that is what he is referring to/asking about in the OP.

THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU.

i was starting to think maybe i was speaking a different language than i thought. then i was afraid Xlucifer was the only one who could read anymore.

Originally posted by undo
the altar boys are being abused by the leadership, yes? not by the congregants. catholics can't assure that every leader in the catholic hierarchy is behaving. that's like asking you (are you male or female?) to be responsible for what other people of your gender do. or other people with your hair color or other people with your political platform or other people in your city, your neighborhood or family or simply other people who post on ATS. if your beef is generalizations and stereotyping, welcome to planet Earth.

hmmmmmmmmmm, yes, now that i think about it, you are so right. what an unfair statement for me to make. thank you for clearing it up. that would have been as bad as say....saying satanists run pedophile rings for the government and murder the children when they are too old to be any fun, or old enough to get away or talk based on the reports of a few....oh wait, there are no real reports for that. hmmmm. maybe now you see what i was getting at.

Originally posted by undo

Originally posted by Heike

Not that I claim this to be the truth although I do see his point to some extent, I am saying that is what he is referring to/asking about in the OP.

i better wait for his response, cause he may have something else in mind and think my response to you is off topic lol

oy, it's like walking on egg shells. tippity toe, tippity toe.

anyway, as an aside, do you believe real dragons existed? (i do, but that's a topic for another thread)

ahhhh how cute. ever going to address ANY of the points i addressed to you? seriously, are you just trying to raise your post count? what are you debating/adding at all? i keep posing questions to you and you continue to ignore them. thanks but no thanks. this is endless as well as useless. and you just could not resist completely ignoring the topic altogether, accusing me of being touchy because i am sick of you rambling about nothing and playing stupid just for kicks for pages upon pages...and then talking about dragons. come on. can you be any more blatant now? we are DONE! post all you like, ON TOPIC. FEEL FREE TO FINALLY RESPOND TO THE POINTS I PROPOSED TO YOU THAT ARE ON TOPIC OR SIMPLY SAY SOMETHING THAT IS ACTUALLY RELEVANT TO THE TOPIC AND NOT WHAT YOU WANT IT TO BE OR FIND SOME OTHER FUN TO HAVE. i am asking you nicely, as a christian to stop simply trying to irritate me for no reason. you poked the bear and i still did not show my 'true satanic fangs' for you so you might as well give up that line. im tired of going around in circles for no reason. obviously i made sense sinse heike, xlucifer, and few others back there got it and addressed it. i starred every one. go see what they wrote and why it applies. take that as an example and work with it. give it a few days. think. then if you have something to add that belongs, please do.

Originally posted by re22666

hmmmmmmmmmm, yes, now that i think about it, you are so right. what an unfair statement for me to make. thank you for clearing it up. that would have been as bad as say....saying satanists run pedophile rings for the government and murder the children when they are too old to be any fun, or old enough to get away or talk based on the reports of a few....oh wait, there are no real reports for that. hmmmm. maybe now you see what i was getting at.

well let's start with the ratonale, which i'm assuming is what you are asking about. if you aren't asking about it, then you are simply ranting, which is okay provided you realize that people will STILL try to have a discussion with you on the topic. so without further ado:

in christian teaching (not sure about islamic or judaic or pagan, etc), when a person does evil, they are said to be under the influence or influential power of negative forces. some of these negative forces could be construed as demons, devils, or simply Satan, by the christian in question. it doesn't really have a common theme and as a result, there's no way to pin it down to just one type of problem or one type of perspective. for example, when a christian is dealing with a malady of some kind, that malady is seen as a force of evil, and since the scripture says all evil originates from a central source, it's assumed this central source is behind it.

now enters the picture, people who appreciate the enlightenment that "Lucifer" or "Satan" supposedly imparted to us in the "Garden", and/or who follow the concept that the real issue is one of knowledge vs. ignorance. they embrace the knowledge over the ignorance and assume anyone who doesn't appreciate "Lucifer" in that aspect as being someone who simply is ignorant and doesn't want knowledge. whatcha got here is a big case of not quite trying to understand what the other person is saying or meaning. this doesn't just happen on one side of the issue but on all sides.

allow me to illustrate:

i was being interviewed on a canadian radio show about the subject of my ebooks. the interviewer was a pretty smart guy but when i pointed out that the application of science has had just as many negative outcomes as positive ones and is by no means the end all, be all, of knowledge, he became quite irate. he said it was a damn sight better than going back to being sheepherded and he wouldn't let me say another word. he spent the rest of his time with me on the show, doing a monologue. it was a knee jerk reaction based on prior assumption. happens all the time. AND we all do it in some measure or another.





[edit on 31-7-2008 by undo]

Originally posted by undo

Originally posted by re22666

hmmmmmmmmmm, yes, now that i think about it, you are so right. what an unfair statement for me to make. thank you for clearing it up. that would have been as bad as say....saying satanists run pedophile rings for the government and murder the children when they are too old to be any fun, or old enough to get away or talk based on the reports of a few....oh wait, there are no real reports for that. hmmmm. maybe now you see what i was getting at.

well let's start with the ratonale, which i'm assuming is what you are asking about. if you aren't asking about it, then you are simply ranting, which is okay provided you realize that people will STILL try to have a discussion with you on the topic. so without further ado:

in christian teaching (not sure about islamic or judaic or pagan, etc), when a person does evil, they are said to be under the influence or influential power of negative forces. some of these negative forces could be construed as demons, devils, or simply Satan, by the christian in question. it doesn't really have a common theme and as a result, there's no way to pin it down to just one type of problem or one type of perspective. for example, when a christian is dealing with a malady of some kind, that malady is seen as a force of evil, and since the scripture says all evil originates from a central source, it's assumed this central source is behind it.

now enters the picture, people who appreciate the enlightenment that "Lucifer" or "Satan" supposedly imparted to us in the "Garden", and/or who follow the concept that the real issue is one of knowledge vs. ignorance. they embrace the knowledge over the ignorance and assume anyone who doesn't appreciate "Lucifer" in that aspect as being someone who simply is ignorant and doesn't want knowledge. whatcha got here is a big case of not quite trying to understand what the other person is saying or meaning. this doesn't just happen on one side of the issue but on all sides.

allow me to illustrate:

i was being interviewed on a canadian radio show about the subject of my ebooks. the interviewer was a pretty smart guy but when i pointed out that the application of science has had just as many negative outcomes as positive ones and is by no means the end all, be all, of knowledge, he became quite irate. he said it was a damn sight better than going back to being sheepherded and he wouldn't let me say another word. he spent the rest of his time with me on the show, doing a monologue. it was a knee jerk reaction based on prior assumption. happens all the time. AND we all do it in some measure or another.





[edit on 31-7-2008 by undo]

blah blah blah blah. call me what you will but when you begin with "in christian teachings" you have sorely missed the mark. can you not read what i am writing to you? did you not understand Heike? why do you insist on posting christian teachings here? i have not presented satanic teachings anywhere. you know what the thread is about. you know what i have asked. you also know that you are missing that on purpose to continue to post just exactly what you like regardless of what i say. any more off topic posts and i will just hit alert ok. i think you had more than enough chances to address the thread, the op, or anything relating to it. maybe you need to start a thread about christian teachings. find a place to go preach and you can post all you want. or do you need satan in order to gain an audience?

ps in my teachings, when someone does something wrong. we blame them, not an invisible influence. you really expect to make a point here with that claptrap?

pps be sure to mention to god how much you appreciate him giving you satan through which to gain a voice since apparently this is the only place you are able to express it.

shahemforash
hail satan
rege satanis

that is what you have been hoping i would say right? ok i gave you what you wanted, no matter how insincere it may be. now give me what i want wont you?

[edit on 7/31/2008 by re22666]

i posted it because you asked for the reason why there's so much attribution of satansim to specific topics you listed.

there's so much because it is assumed by christians and perhaps several other belief systems as well, that negative force is not good. it's bad, and in christianity, it's got a name.

Originally posted by undo
i posted it because you asked for the reason why there's so much attribution of satansim to specific topics you listed.

there's so much because it is assumed by christians and perhaps several other belief systems as well, that negative force is not good. it's bad, and in christianity, it's got a name.

but i made it clear

I DO NOT WANT A CHRISTIAN PERSPECTIVE. I WANT A REAL WORLD ONE. ONE THAT DOES NOT BASE ITS "FACTS" ON IMAGINARY FRIENDS IN THE SKY. THAT IS NOT FACT. THAT IS NOT HISTORY. THAT IS WHAT YOU THINK. THAT IS OPINION PUT FORTH AS FACT. THAT IS WHAT LEAD ME TO START A THREAD QUESTIONING THE WAY PEOPLE ON ATS CAN SO BLINDLY SPEAK FROM A PLACE OF RELIGION AS IF IT WERE FACT. COME ON, READ A G^&@$%N POST FOR A CHANGE. YOU WADE THROUGH THE ONES YOU CANNOT ANSWER UNTIL YOU FIND ONE THAT
GIVES YOU AN EXCUSE TO PREACH. YOU REFUSE TO ADDRESS THE OP, REFUSE TO ANSWER MY FIRST 19 QUESTIONS UNTIL YOU SEE ONE THAT GIVES YOU AND EXCUSE TO PREACH. THAT S NOT WELCOME HERE BECAUSE IT DOES NOT APPLY, DOES NOT FIT, DOES NOT HELP, DOES NOT MATTER. i asked again and again for you to answer my questions and address the OP and you simply refuse. you are done. do not bother anymore because you are doing nothing but littering my thread with nonsense. please, start your own if you must preach or just admit that you need me to get attention because noone else cares either but at least i respond.