why is there so much satanism disinfo here

Originally posted by LoneGunMan

Originally posted by re22666

that tarot is a random card game. and if you want me to explain what is different, i think you better explain just what was supposed to be the same first.
pops.

I thought you said you knew that Tarot. If you did you would not state it is a random card game. It was only a card game for the elite in Europe a few hundred years ago. Before that is was not. It was originally taken from the library of Alexander and is very ancient. Oh and in explaining what is the same first. I already did that in the external source quote did you read it...its a perfect description of your belief system if you are a Satanist.

i did say i would not bother because as i said, i could care less what someone posits as a truth of some kind based on a card game. call it what you want based on what you want. ring around the rosy was not a cute kids song either but what do we call it now? a nursury rhyme? ok so its a cardgame and nothing more
if you can show me exactly where it describes the satanism as defined by the church of satanism and all of its literature, just post that. i had to stop at addiction since that throws it out the window right away. why read the reast when it is already wrong? will it get to be soooooooooooo right that it outweighs where it is wrong? so i will just ask that specifically, where does it describe what you call "my" satanism.

my religious belief continues to be questioned as if my mention or lack thereof was relevant in any way. and now i get these cute U2U's about what apparently i have said it is.
this thread is not about anyone's religion; yours or mine ok.
have we got that yet.
i dot really care what you believe, it does not address the point.
i dont care what you want to say is fact when the only place that "fact" came from is a religious text backed in NOTHING!!!!!!!!!!!
i also do not care to hide my feelings or beliefs but i also care not to discuss them
i want to know why there cannot be a conspiracy theory of any kind, about any one thing, in any part of the world, that is not somehow satanic or luciferian or devi-worship related
and secondly, why is it that people on here can say anything about "Satanism" unchallenged. if you do not see the difference between the one and only officially recognized SATANISM from any other brand of satanism, or luciferian type deal then do this-
hire house painters
tell them not to give an estimate or ever speak to you of price and supplies. just buy what is needed and do it. only stipulation is that it must be red in color.
now wait until they are done, look at it, see it is marroon, or amber, or muave and then take a look at that bill. now tell me if there is not a difference between some things even thought the names are so darn close.

Hey OP! How ya doin'? Don't feel bad, every thread I start gets totally ignored .. at least you got some discussion going here!

And now for something completely different .. I'm going to try to answer your question! (which one other person actually did that I saw, and I gave him a star for it).

Okay, here's my theory:

1) The majority of Americans are Christians. The majority of posters on ATS are Americans. Therefore, the majority of posters on ATS are (at least nominally) Christians.
2) If God, Jesus, and the Bible are truth and real, then Satan is real. Inversely, if Satan is not real, then God, Jesus, and the Bible are not real truth.
3) If Satan is real and the Bible is the truth, the Christian is supposed to believe that:
a. Satan is currently running the world. Not all individual humans, but the world as a whole.
b. Anything that distracts a Christian from God is of Satan, since he's running the world. Therefore, anything that might make one doubt God and the Bible, such as ghosts, UFOs, aliens, psychics, etc., is actually a 'trick' of Satan designed to confuse people and make them doubt God and the Bible.
c. By definition, anyone who is not a Christian comes under the rule of Satan because, as stated in a., he's the current ruler of this world. Therefore, by Christian definition, anyone who is not a Christian is "ruled by Satan" and therefore a Satanist.

If any of the above is proven to be not true, the entire system collapses and the Christian is lost...

So .. do you see .. by my theory .. that the majority of posters on ATS will (theoretically) define anything "non-Christian" as Satanist?

This, of course, has nothing to do with the real church of Satan or people who actually admit to being Satanist and follow the lifestyle.. And, theoretically, the Christians MUST and will defend their belief and their opinion almost literally to the death, because if they're wrong, if their God and their Bible aren't the truth, they've devoted their entire life to a lie and they having nothing to live by, or live for.

Now, everybody stop and take a deep breath ... let it out .. and re-read the beginning of my post. I don't claim that any of the above is the Gospel Truth (irony intended), just that it's a THEORY which might answer the OP's question. I don't claim to know what the truth is or isn't and I'm not attacking Christianity or Christians. I have a lot of Christian friends and they're by and large pretty nice people. In particular, the ones who actually try to live by Christ's teachings (and yet don't aggressively try to "save" everyone around them) are good, positive, happy people whom I can only admire and somewhat envy.

wellll, i believe the satan in the bible is the same as the sumerian one but from the perspective of the slaves (in the bible). the bible wasn't written down until babylon. prior to that, it was an oral history, passed down in the tribes. i would say there is ONE satan but he has buddies. and his buddies, to us, would look almost the same, would feel almost the same, would act almost the same. hrm....maybe they're clones.

anyway, i have a wacky theory about all that, that may or may not resemble the way others view it.

reply to post by Heike


i will read your thread. point me to the one you would most like to get a response on?

Originally posted by Heike
Hey OP! How ya doin'? Don't feel bad, every thread I start gets totally ignored .. at least you got some discussion going here!

And now for something completely different .. I'm going to try to answer your question! (which one other person actually did that I saw, and I gave him a star for it).


Now, everybody stop and take a deep breath ... let it out .. and re-read the beginning of my post. I don't claim that any of the above is the Gospel Truth (irony intended), just that it's a THEORY which might answer the OP's question. I don't claim to know what the truth is or isn't and I'm not attacking Christianity or Christians. I have a lot of Christian friends and they're by and large pretty nice people. In particular, the ones who actually try to live by Christ's teachings (and yet don't aggressively try to "save" everyone around them) are good, positive, happy people whom I can only admire and somewhat envy.

thank you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

that was an actual answer to the question asked
it was clear and well said
it did not put forth any "facts" backed up by some religious book
it did not say anything disparaging about anyone on either side
it did not accuse me of pushing propoganda
i think i can go on and on and on here.
second answer so far and it is also a gem. out of how many posts? wow

i was hoping to see more answers like this. i dont mean that give the same answers to lead us to the same conclusion but following the above stated criteria.

reply to post by Heike



and this does bring up why i wanted to know what i wanted to know.
I originally came here to see.
if you post something on ufos, it takes no time before people lookup and post radar screens and weather reports and faa listings and on and on. look at the 9/11 posts. full of research on both sides. same wtih most things here.
so why then do people say crazy stuff about satanism and then it either hangs there unchallenged or is even expanded upon as if it were somehow a qualifying fact now since one person posted it.
where is that same intellectual curiosity? that desire for truth? that dedication to proof and facts or at least anything on which to back your crazy claim? why is satanism so special that it can escape the scrutiny of logic or evidence or truth. hell, its not even a secret society, it is quite public.jsut wondering.

thanks again for actually responding to what was posted.

Originally posted by dariousg

satanism is not about worship in any way shape or form. who told you that it was, where did you learn that. not from the church of satan.

One form of "Satanism" that many people who would be classified as "Satanic" simply disagree with.

Did the egyptians worship gods? Did they worship gods in Babylon? By Christian standards these people's beliefs would probably fall into a "Satanic" category in today's world.

Originally posted by Illij

Originally posted by dariousg

satanism is not about worship in any way shape or form. who told you that it was, where did you learn that. not from the church of satan.

One form of "Satanism" that many people who would be classified as "Satanic" simply disagree with.

Did the egyptians worship gods? Did they worship gods in Babylon? By Christian standards these people's beliefs would probably fall into a "Satanic" category in today's world.

that is too bad. it is wrong and ignorant. there is one true satanism. it has rules, a history, and is recognized as such to perform marriages and qualifies for but refused tax exempt status. so to attribute anything to the satanic religion because it has a dark past is just stupid. it is akin to me saying that christian are snake handlers. all of them. why? because i decided that i can make up what is and is not christian based on my belief system

Originally posted by Xilvius

1. How many wars have been fought in the name of satan?
2. How many satanists do you have knocking at your door at all hours of the day trying to cram their religion down your throat?
3. Which would you prefer? A religion where you must obey every single last thing told to you because it was 'the right thing to do' and if you didn't you would goto a place and suffer for all eternity.

I could go on, but these are just a few examples. I think that everyone who is planning to say anything down on anyone elses religion had better have very very strong proof, and be prepared to have their own beliefs picked apart into nothing.

1. In most wars the first thing that is done by the evil aggressor is that they first go after the Jews, Gods chosen people to be the example. That only proves that they are being led by Satan himself.

www.crystalinks.com...

While in the Hapsburg Treasure House in Vienna, Austria, Hitler heard the words which he said were to change his whole life.

A museum tour guide stopped in front of a display of an ancient spear and told of a legend that whoever possessed it would hold the destiny of the world.

The guide said the spear was supposedly the one which a Roman Centurion thrust into the side of Jesus Christ at the Crucifixion. After the group departed, Hitler stepped forward for a closer look.

"I knew with immediacy that this was an important moment in my life, and yet I could not divine why an outwardly Christian symbol should make such an impression on me," he said later.

In April, 1938, he marched his army into Vienna and took possession of the spear and took it to Nuremberg. One year later, he invaded Poland.

2. They have the demons do that work for them.

3. Sets the example of what it means to be a good person, Do you not want to be a good person and lie, Cheat and steal? Do you not see that the people who do sin make this planet a rough place to live in? Would you like it if you came home to find that someone had broken into it and stole everything dear to you?

Originally posted by re22666

Originally posted by Sky watcher

I love the fact that you have named your religion based on Satan but then deny you have anything to do with him. Typical Satanist, Follow the devils lead. The greatest thing Satan even did was convince many that he does not exist. I have listened to your kind over and over and every time, The longer they speak the more comes out that they are worshipers of the anti-Christ and the devil himself. A few have even been brave enough to deny this with Art Bell on Coast to Coast and they get busted every time.

your problem is that one- you assumed my religion. i never stated my stance on being or not being a satanist.
two- you base it on what you think satanism would be

anyway, looking for why people like you believe what you believe, can you share with us some proof that satansist worship the anti christ. not anecdotes or quotes from clap-trap like "michelle remembers" but actual proof that satanists worship satan or any supernatural ghost story voodoo zombie monster you people talk about in your big book.

_The Satanic Bible_ is a book describing the philosophy of Anton
LaVey, founder of the Church of Satan. This organization holds the
view that there is no higher god than oneself, and that one should
worship accordingly. Life is the Great Indulgence and Death is the
Great Abstinence, as there is no afterlife. The basic ideas of _The
Satanic Bible_ are laid out in the Nine Satanic Statements:

1. Satan represents indulgence, instead of abstinence!

2. Satan represents vital existence, instead of
spiritual pipe dreams!

3. Satan represents undefiled wisdom, instead of
hypocritical self-deceit!

4. Satan represents kindness to those who deserve it,
instead of love wasted on ingrates!

5. Satan represents vengeance, instead of turning the
other cheek!

6. Satan represents responsibility to the responsible,
instead of concern for psychic vampires!

7. Satan represents man as just another animal,
sometimes better than, more often worse than those that
walk on all fours, who, because of his "divine
spiritual and intellectual development," has become the
most vicious animal of all!

8. Satan represents all of the so-called sins, as they
all lead to physical, mental, or emotional
gratification!

9. Satan has been the best friend the church has ever
had, as he has kept it in business all these years!

Members of a certain group have noticed that much of the Satanic Bible is
plagiarized from various sources; the above-quoted "Nine Satanic Statements"
are similar to writing in Ayn Rands _Atlas Shrugged_ and the "Book of
Satan" is plagiarized from Ragnar Redbeards _Might is Right_. In this, the
SB seems similar to the texts of most other religions; also plagiarized
from earlier sources; the Tao Te Ching, the Xian Bible and the Koran being
obvious examples.

www.faqs.org...

You worship his ideas and follow his lead so yes you worship him. The funny thing is that for you to even believe in Satan you now have to admit that the bible is fact or you are saying your religion is baseless. Now go cry because you are the weak feeble one here and when you get to hell let me know just how nice your fellow church members are to you. Don't forget the Vaseline bacon boy!!!

The great thing about Satan is you know he is doomed to failure. That is the only greatness he'll ever achieve, and everything else is just doomed. Next time you worship him send him my way. I'd love to feel the darkness so I can show him the light. He used to be from the light but he choose the darkness. He can never come back now but he will take the naive ones with him (Forgive them Father, they know not what they do...very true!).

reply to post by re22666


Remember folks, we're still musing on a THEORY here!

why then do people say crazy stuff about satanism and then it either hangs there unchallenged or is even expanded upon as if it were somehow a qualifying fact now since one person posted it.

Well, I would say it's a question of investment. Christians have their entire life and their future, even their future after physical death, invested in their beliefs. It's much easier and safer to tag all the 'weird' stuff as the works of Satan and go on, than to risk the collapse of their reality by challenging it or allowing doubts to creep in and threaten them. Challenging the idea that it's all illusion, misdirection, and demons disguised as ghosts or aliens or whatever to fool us, calls the whole Christian religion into question. At least, I think that's how they must see it from watching their reactions. Furthermore, in their ideology, I think anything said in support of Satanism, or "similar" paths such as Wicca, Druidism, Paganism, etc. is construed as a direct attack on God, Jesus, and the Christian Way.

If Jesus is the one and only way to God and Heaven, then by extrapolation everyone else is not only wrong, but headed for hell and taking everyone they influence with them. The Christians have learned not to directly attack some of the other major religions, but this is really what they believe. If you aren't "with" God (i. e. Jesus) then you are against him.
(This paragraph comes from many stimulating discussions with a coworker who is a Sunday school teacher and a self-proclaimed Christian apologist.)

why is satanism so special that it can escape the scrutiny of logic or evidence or truth.

(and now I'm not being theoretical any more, but speaking of personal experience)

As you have seen for yourself, any effort to question once the Satan thing has been brought up leads to attacks by Christians. I personally don't feel like getting into a fight with anyone about religion on here (although generally I enjoy debate), so I am guilty as charged. When the Satansim card is played, I deal myself out, or ignore the post. I don't enjoy all the harangue that ensues about me going to hell, or what a loser I am for rejecting the ultimate gift given to us by God, etc. etc. It just isn't worth the trouble, since *usually* the folks who put that ball into play aren't the ones I want to "play" with, anyway.

P.S. OP, you might enjoy my blog, at least the most current entry:
Pagan = Pariah?

Edited to add the P.S.

[edit on 20-7-2008 by Heike]

Originally posted by Sky watcher

Originally posted by re22666

Originally posted by Sky watcher

I love the fact that you have named your religion based on Satan but then deny you have anything to do with him. Typical Satanist, Follow the devils lead. The greatest thing Satan even did was convince many that he does not exist. I have listened to your kind over and over and every time, The longer they speak the more comes out that they are worshipers of the anti-Christ and the devil himself. A few have even been brave enough to deny this with Art Bell on Coast to Coast and they get busted every time.

your problem is that one- you assumed my religion. i never stated my stance on being or not being a satanist.
two- you base it on what you think satanism would be

anyway, looking for why people like you believe what you believe, can you share with us some proof that satansist worship the anti christ. not anecdotes or quotes from clap-trap like "michelle remembers" but actual proof that satanists worship satan or any supernatural ghost story voodoo zombie monster you people talk about in your big book.

_The Satanic Bible_ is a book describing the philosophy of Anton
LaVey, founder of the Church of Satan. This organization holds the
view that there is no higher god than oneself, and that one should
worship accordingly. Life is the Great Indulgence and Death is the
Great Abstinence, as there is no afterlife. The basic ideas of _The
Satanic Bible_ are laid out in the Nine Satanic Statements:

1. Satan represents indulgence, instead of abstinence!

2. Satan represents vital existence, instead of
spiritual pipe dreams!

3. Satan represents undefiled wisdom, instead of
hypocritical self-deceit!

4. Satan represents kindness to those who deserve it,
instead of love wasted on ingrates!

5. Satan represents vengeance, instead of turning the
other cheek!

6. Satan represents responsibility to the responsible,
instead of concern for psychic vampires!

7. Satan represents man as just another animal,
sometimes better than, more often worse than those that
walk on all fours, who, because of his "divine
spiritual and intellectual development," has become the
most vicious animal of all!

8. Satan represents all of the so-called sins, as they
all lead to physical, mental, or emotional
gratification!

9. Satan has been the best friend the church has ever
had, as he has kept it in business all these years!

Members of a certain group have noticed that much of the Satanic Bible is
plagiarized from various sources; the above-quoted "Nine Satanic Statements"
are similar to writing in Ayn Rands _Atlas Shrugged_ and the "Book of
Satan" is plagiarized from Ragnar Redbeards _Might is Right_. In this, the
SB seems similar to the texts of most other religions; also plagiarized
from earlier sources; the Tao Te Ching, the Xian Bible and the Koran being
obvious examples.

www.faqs.org...

You worship his ideas and follow his lead so yes you worship him. The funny thing is that for you to even believe in Satan you now have to admit that the bible is fact or you are saying your religion is baseless. Now go cry because you are the weak feeble one here and when you get to hell let me know just how nice your fellow church members are to you. Don't forget the Vaseline bacon boy!!!

this is cute. lets start at the bottom. i cannot worship him or follow his lead for he is not a him. satanists do NOT believe in SATAN. that takes care of your whole point. feel special, as if you had a real gotcha there but...if you read more than a few snippets you would know
1 satanists do not believe in satan, just the characteristics that have been applied to devils throughout history. as you originally stated, it is a philosiphy about ideals, not a religion to emulate a 'god'
if satanists believed in satan at all, you might have something but you have nothing. it all goes away in the faceof that.
2 the satanic bible is a conglomeration of old world religious ritual and philisophical ramblings. not only does it borrow, take, steal, from elsewhere. it proudly announces that it does. there is no attempt to hide the fact that it is nothing more than a patchwork of things that have come before. that is part of the point.
guess what. god impregnating a virgin and leading followers to that with a star, christians plagerized that from older sources as well.
the difference? satanists admit it.

Originally posted by Sky watcher
[

You worship his ideas and follow his lead so yes you worship him. The funny thing is that for you to even believe in Satan you now have to admit that the bible is fact or you are saying your religion is baseless. Now go cry because you are the weak feeble one here and when you get to hell let me know just how nice your fellow church members are to you. Don't forget the Vaseline bacon boy!!!

i still never said what i do or do not worship so i am glad you know without me saying. if what you are saying is that as a satanist i worship him and his ideas, didnt you already state it is about self worship? who is this he and his ideas? anton lavey? satan? and how do satanists worship him. please enlighten me on satanism and how they worship.

Originally posted by re22666
where does it describe what you call "my" satanism.

Right here. It is about being spiritually out of balance. Someone that is totally spiritual and does not go into the more animalistic side of life is not in balance either. Neither are Satanists.

Basic Tarot Meaning

Perhaps the most misunderstood card of all the major arcana, the Devil is not really "Satan" at all, but Pan the half-goat nature god and/or Dionysius. These are gods of pleasure and abandon, of wild behavior and unbridled desires. With Capricorn as its ruling sign, this is a card about ambitions; it is also synonymous with temptation and addiction. On the flip side, however, the card can be a warning to someone who is too restrained, someone who never allows themselves to get passionate or messy or wild - or ambitious. This, too, is a form of enslavement. As a person, the Devil can stand for a man of money or erotic power, aggressive, controlling, or just persuasive. This is not to say a bad man, but certainly a powerful man who is hard to resist. The important thing is to remind the Querent that any chain is freely worn. In most cases, you are enslaved only because you allow it.

Thirteen's Observations

This card explores some very frightening things, things we are taught to view as evil or shameful. Like earthy materialism, sexual desire, valuables, food, or drugs. Lack of control, excess, obsession and raw ambition. At its absolute worst, this is either the addict or the stalker, totally obsessed, enslaved. At its best, this is a card about giving into impulse, cutting lose, going for the gold, climbing every mountain. Among all the cards, this is one of the most complex; interestingly because no other card is so one-sided. Most cards urge balance, unity, restraint, yin-yang. Not this card. Completely tilted toward the masculine, it is a card that revels in extremity. There is a convincing argument that this is the most powerful and dangerous card in the deck. Magically speaking, it is the one card in the deck that holds the secret of how to escape the material and temporal bonds of Earth. It is a very potent and fascinating card.

If this is "just a card game" then tell me the difference between what you believe and what the cards reveal. To state the Tarot is "just a card game" really does show an immature ignorance of what it is all about.

I know myself that not all, nor even many christians, or general people label anything bad or mysterious as satanic, but it is easy to lead many of those people to believe that there has to be some sort of occult side to things because there is a mystery, and of course, within every mystery, theres likely a satanist somewhere making babies to sacrifice or playing ring around the rosie with a bonfire.

Then there are those actual frothing at the mouth 'true beLIEvers' that see anything not of god or against god and their generally sick interpretation of Her as satanic. And of course the devil is behind everything, from their wife leaving them, to them getting a case of the sniffles last tuesday. ahhh! the devil did it, im besieged by demons! quick, to the prayer-mobile! Reverend needs some more money!

of course, my humorous side does like to remind most Christians, catholics, etc that god is black, and a woman, and shes p****d

Originally posted by undo

You Only Know What You've Been Told!!

There's a big ditto here. Aren't you one of those people who actually believed Zeitgeist?

When that film came out it was old news to me! That information has been out there for some time now. Most of it is common sense! Not to be mean or anything but you come off ass a person that has some mental issues, in my opinoin your not all there...You seem to be hung up on the I'm a Woman and a Mother thing. That kind of thinking is the same kind of thinking that sponsors hate! You seem to have a distaste for Men and feel special because you are the carrier of life. I guess you forgot that with out a Man you can not create life. If you are a good mother good for you, but their is no reason to wear it on your shirt like a badge, after all if you are a good mother, it is as it should be. I love my son and all children of the world, but my love doesn't change the fact that their life is expendable in the world we live in, if you were more in touch with the Human race rather then the female gender may be you would have a better prospective on the reality of life.

[edit on 7/21/2008 by XcLuciFer]

Originally posted by undo

Originally posted by XcLuciFer
I'm must say that this thread has proven to me once agin just how small the human race is. I know very little about satanism, or God or anything that isn't of this world for that matter and have no problem with telling you so. I can't even figure out why my species can't see the error in its behavior. I don't understand why people can't see that this is a huge issue that leads to all sorts of misconceptions. How can you really make a decision about something with out knowing the facts? With most things in life people want to know their options, why is this not the case when it comes to spirituality, unless you have studied them all how can you make an intelligent choice. We obviously can't agree on who or what God is and we have been strugguling with that issue for some time now and it has gotten us no where, so what would it hurt for the human species to forget about God for now and focuss on humans? What if we loved ourselves as much as we love God? Do you think the world would look the same?

Well, let me be the first to point out that you are not capable of knowing what extent others have gone to to reach their determinations regarding subjects such as spirituality. you auto-assume people just got up from their highchairs one day, took off their bibs, removed their pacifiers, picked up their potty chairs and said, hmm, i think i'll be a christian. that is extremely presumptive. You have no idea.

[edit on 18-7-2008 by undo]

This is amazing! You completely miss the point! And didn't consider the question...I'm not trying to fight with you, I'm only sharing an Idea, trying to think out of the box. Why are you always looking for a fight with me? Why are you so condescending. Do my post bother you that much! It seems like you think my post are some how a personal attack on you. I'm I hitting that close to home?

[edit on 7/21/2008 by XcLuciFer]

Originally posted by re22666

Originally posted by Sky watcher
[

You worship his ideas and follow his lead so yes you worship him. The funny thing is that for you to even believe in Satan you now have to admit that the bible is fact or you are saying your religion is baseless. Now go cry because you are the weak feeble one here and when you get to hell let me know just how nice your fellow church members are to you. Don't forget the Vaseline bacon boy!!!

i still never said what i do or do not worship so i am glad you know without me saying. if what you are saying is that as a satanist i worship him and his ideas, didnt you already state it is about self worship? who is this he and his ideas? anton lavey? satan? and how do satanists worship him. please enlighten me on satanism and how they worship.

Hey Brainiack have you checked out your avatar lately, I think its obvious to everyone who you kneel before. I have heard your argument a hundred times and its the same old lying game and the same old blasphemy.

You have a religion based on nothing as you see it then? Satan is nothingness a dark pit of a soul and you do his bidding nicely. I hope you realize how ignorant you sound saying that Satanism is not the worship of Satan when every person who has half a brain knows it to be fact that you do.