Is Hell actually a more preferable destination than Heaven?

I would be confident in saying that earth in its current climate is hell. Anything that one could imagine would take place in hell, is likely to be taking place at this very moment, somewhere on the planet. We are living in hell and it is up to us to change it into heaven, through real, positive action, not by prayer and faith alone.

I think that, as usual too many miss the point when it comes to GOD's plans for the human race, and all of the individuals that comprise of it.
First of all, how many of yall have kids? Do you reward them with candy and ice cream when they jump of the couch, knock over the entertainment center and smash your TV on the floor?
Would you run out and buy them a car after you catch them banging heroin and they tell you to go F yourself and mind your own bussiness? Should GOD grant you eternal life if you act like this to him? After all the bible does tell us the WE ARE ALL GODS CHILDREN.
Second, Would you want to have robotic children with no personality and no free will? Free will IS a gift from GOD and is what makes us all unique individuals. People without free will mindlessly spouting praise for GOD would be a pointless creation, not the great and dynamic thing that the human race is, not to mention if people were mindless robot servants to GOD then we would not be HIS CHILDREN MADE IN HIS IMAGE.
Third, if you read the bible you'll find that sin was unleashed into the world by man, not GOD. Two people ADAM and EVE, by their own free will disobeyed HIS command to leave the tree of knowledge alone and not eat it's fruit. All sin, and evil in the world is ultimately perpetrated by man. You cannot blame GOD for what another person does. We all have free will and knowledge of good and evil. We can all choose our path through life. GOD cannot directly affect our freedom to choose, HE cannot make anyone do anything, good nor evil. If we choose to do what we know is right and just then we are serving his will, if we choose the other side then we are most likely hurting someone else. Again, do you give your son twizzlers and soda pop after he cold cocks your daughter? How about if he murders her?
Too many people associate the seven deadly sins with something that is similar but different enough to be actually good. Take lust for example, lust is not sex, the act of sex, nor the apreciation of beauty. Lust is the animal desire use another person for your own gratification with no regard for that other person whatsoever. It's objectification and abuse, sex without love, which leads to broken hearts, STD's, Dead beat Dads dumpster babies and abortion. Lust is the animal instict absent of the spiritial responsibility and control, as well as love.
Greed, is not just wanting more fore yourself so that you can share with friends and family, or perfect strangers. Greed is love of money, or wealth, it is the willingness to kill, destroy, steal, and defraud. To do whatever you can no matter how low to get more.
Gluttony, If you weigh four hundred pounds and shove whole turkeys and pigs down your gullot in one sitting, while people around you are starving, how is that not acrime against your fellow man. If you have plenty you should share it, not desecrate your body with it. Gluttony is like Greed and Lust, instinct without spiritual control.
Sloth, laziness to the point of being a constant burdon on others. There really is a theme on all of theses sins in that they epitomize selfishness. Those who are sloth do no work, and rely on the work of others to live,. The sloth waste their existence as parisites, sucking down all the charity and good works they can get while doing none themselves.
No matter which sin you pick it can be found along with one or more of the rest in the same person, and all of these sins result in the suffering of others sooner or later, these are not victimless crimes, when you commit them you're going to be punished because of the people that you've hurt, unless you've asked for forgiveness. Because no matter how low you're children may go, if they apologize, straighten up, and ask to be forgiven, you still love them and want to forgive them. The whole deal is not that you're going to be punished for your sins, but that GOD loves you and doesn't want to punish you, and will forgive ANYTHING if you ask HIM.

There are people that explore what you call 'hell' in groups and afterwards they compare notes (that is why I think they are genuine)...

here is a nice hell example (focus zone 23-26) where they go exploring:

www.afterlife-knowledge.com/maxhell.html

here are also more explanations about the focus zones:

www.afterlife-knowledge.com/nexusart.html
In short: hells and hollow heavens are created by group consciousness projections and attract similar vibrating souls (after death) like a magnet... what is interesting is that most of dead people don't even know that they died, so their lack of knowledge makes them wander around hopelessly for a long, long time...

other important thing (what they say) is that HELL IS NOT ETERNAL!!! anyone can get out if they wish, the problem is that 'souls' are trapped all by themselves, not by outside forces/demons/devils, etc...

reply to post by EverythingYouDespise


maybe this existence/plain is "Hell" and in all our past lives we commited a sin(s) of some sort... but hey that would be to convienient to point the finger

reply to post by FIFIGI


I do not believe that to love someone, the feeling must be mutual.

reply to post by Equinox99

no, i believe he is right. everybody who believes this stuff IS an idiot.

Stupid thread. We make our OWN hell, and I can tell you its none too pleasant.

[edit on 17-7-2008 by Spaceman_ziff]

reply to post by The Soldier Of Darkness
Wow! What venom! Surely you have a bad experience that make you feel the way you do. I might be a simpleton, an ignorant person or whatever the name is for people who really believe in a Sovereign God, but based on my life's experiences, there just has to be an omnipotent God.

There has to be a universal struggle ongoing, and surely the end of it all is near. Hope to see the light one day. Peace

I'll tell you when. When you're a subject of the most vain entity in history. God wants nothing but blind obedience and praise from human beings. He does not appear to want us to be happy at all, and explicitly commands us not to seek knowledge or strive for success and wealth.

So why would you expect him to do a complete 180 once you're dead and in Heaven? If you've spent your entire life denying pleasures and slavishly adhering to a ridiculous doctrine, do you really think the reward will be a paradise?

I'd much prefer to spend eternity in Hell, where surely all Earthly passions and pursuits are held in the highest esteem - finally free from the reach of that great party-pooper in the sky. And, as an added bonus to being eternally separated from God, imagine the wonderful company of the other damned souls! Philosophers, pleasure-seekers, artists and the like, enjoying everlasting orgies, feasts and merryment. Heaven, meanwhile, would be full of slaves and prudes.

'To be a good ( insert your religion here ) and get to heaven. God wants you to ( screw little girls ( Warren Jeffs ), embezzle millions ( Jim Bakker ), send me $30 million in 30 days ( Oral Roberts ), blow yourself and innocent civilians up ( several Islamic clerics ), kill black people ( several southern preachers )...'
You have to wonder what type of 'Heaven' you will be going to if you followed some of those people who I referenced. They all claim to be following God's law.

Darkness is lack of light as sin is lack of love. Those who perceive love, and acknowledge that they have everything have no needs of any kind.

Darkness first involves the recognition that darkness cannot hide. 2 This step usually entails fear. 3 Second, the recognition that there is nothing you want to hide even if you could. 4 This step brings escape from fear. 5 When you have become willing to hide nothing, you will not only be willing to enter into communion but will also understand peace and joy.

Your mind can be possessed by illusions, but spirit is eternally free. 9 If a mind perceives without love, it perceives an empty shell and is unaware of the spirit within. The emptiness engendered by fear must be replaced by forgiveness. 2 That is what the Bible means by "There is no death," and why I could demonstrate that death does not exist. 3 I came to fulfill the law by reinterpreting it. The God's law itself, if properly understood, offers only protection. 5 It is those who have not yet changed their minds who brought the "hell-fire" concept into it. 6 I assure you that I will witness for anyone who lets me, and to whatever extent he permits it. 7 Your witnessing demonstrates your belief, and thus strengthens it.

The Garden of Eden, or the pre-separation condition, was a state of mind in which nothing was needed. 2 When Adam listened to the "lies" all he heard was untruth. 3 You do not have to continue to believe what is not true unless you choose to do so. All that can literally disappear in the twinkling of an eye because it is merely a misperception. 5 What is seen in dreams seems to be very real. 6 Yet the Bible says that a deep sleep fell upon Adam, and nowhere is there reference to his waking up. Only after the deep sleep fell upon Adam could he experience nightmares. 6 If a light is suddenly turned on while someone is dreaming a fearful dream, he may initially interpret the light itself as part of his dream and be afraid of it. 7 However, when he awakens, the light is correctly perceived as the release from the dream, which is then no longer accorded reality. 8 This release does not depend on illusions. 9 The knowledge that illuminates not only sets you free, but also shows you clearly that you free.

The world has not yet experienced any comprehensive reawakening or rebirth. Such a rebirth is impossible as long as you continue to project or miscreate. Only the mind can create because spirit has already been created, and the body is a learning device for the mind. 2 Learning devices are not lessons in themselves. 3 Their purpose is merely to facilitate learning. The body, if properly understood, shares the invulnerability of the two-edged application. The body is merely part of your experience in the physical world. 9 Its abilities can be and frequently are overevaluated. 10 However, it is almost impossible to deny its existence in this world. 11 Those who do so are engaging in a particularly unworthy form of denial. 12 The term "unworthy" here implies only that it is not necessary to protect the mind by denying the unmindful. If one denies this unfortunate aspect of the mind's power, one is also denying the power itself.

The Last Judgment is one of the most threatening ideas in your thinking. 2 This is because you do not understand it. 3 Judgment is not an attribute of God. 4 It was brought into being only after the separation and your belief or an idea in the mind, when it became one of the many learning devices to be built into the overall plan. The Last Judgment is generally thought of as a procedure undertaken by God.

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Our thoughts are very powerfull. You believe there is no heaven, there is a good chance that you will not see one. You believe there is a lake of fire in hell and you want to go there, you probably will. My point is I think whatever you believe is what your fate will be. Your soul is energy and once your earth body is gone, your soul has to go somewhere. You think there is nothing, blackness, your soul will not exist anymore. If that is true (and it's my idea so I get to believe it) your choice in life is to think whatever you want. Don't follow the masses to church if that is not what you want. I don't think that will make you a shoe in for heaven. Some folks need church to feel like they belong. Some don't. No matter what you tell people you believe, the only thing that truely matters is what is in your heart. When I meet God, he will see it just as he will see all others. I just hope he likes what he sees.
Great topic and discussion.

All the above is only my opinion. I know less than most about alot.

reply to post by network dude


Interesting view point. I like this idea. Before I die I will be thinking nothing other than naked beautiful pornstar like women with huge breasts. Locate in a tropical paradise with plenty of booze and uncontrolled substances. Ahhh..heaven.

As for for the topic. Life after death is a big gamable. and how you spend it will determine your life forever. God and Christ is out their. Heaven and hell do exist. So you say being a murder can be a pleasure. I think no offense thats stupid. Greed lets still from others and do what it takes to get what we want. Evil in a half. Sounds to me you want to live a life where you wont be punish for you evil ways.

Here a fact and future event for you. So you living your life of lust, and greed, and doing whatever you want. Then Jesus and Judgement comes. Next you know your on the wrong side of the line and your name not written. Next thing you know you being punish in a lake of fire. You think that would pleasureable? In your own theory you stated that if God did exist that you would rather live without him than with him. Let me tell you this I rather live a slave at God feet licking his foot, than being in a eternal fire of punishment. But you said hell would to be without God's presents. I would never want to be on earth without God's presents. I bet all my life that worst would be happening on earth without him.

I bet your just want to live a life doing whateve you want without punishment. Well the fact is you will be punish. God is watching and waiting. If you choose him he loves you, and shows you the way. But dont let freedom of doing evil things sound more pleasurable than Living a life of God cuz end the end you will see different.

reply to post by DazE777


you, my friend have got it. I see a neverending keg of beer, beautifull women, and my wife doesn't get mad, she can't, it's not alowed in heaven.
And women arent' alowed to wear cloths. It's my heaven afterall.

reply to post by network dude


If your wife is there....can it be called heaven?

I don't really know what to believe in so I have choosen to just live a "good" life. I do know that when I was younger I died. I didnt see a lake of fire or pearly gates. What I saw and felt was "nothing". I remeber it being the darkest of dark. Like the emptiness was real and I could feel it yet there was nothing there. Maybe I was inbetween worlds, but whatever happened it wasn't heaven and it wasn't hell.

sex , drugs and Rock'n Roll..

sounds more preferable to me.
Better then being in a place where i have to be nice to everyone and
keep my mouth shut.

I agree that Hell is being apart from God. But if you agree that God is full of love and compassion for mankind and Satan is full of deceit and contempt, I failt to see why you would want to spend eternity away from your benevolent creator.

I would much rather spend eternity in the lowest corner of Heaven than on the highest throne in Hell!

reply to post by EverythingYouDespise

i have to disagree that the idea of hell is new, as a matter of fact most churches stay away from talking about realities of hell because its not what people want to hear, churches in this day seem to be more mainstream to me. wanting to impress people rather than talk about truth.

it doesnt appear that you have gone to church recently, correct? maybe im wrong i dont know but i just think churches nowadays like to sugarcoat everything.

peace

Originally posted by jmklaren
sex , drugs and Rock'n Roll..

sounds more preferable to me.
Better then being in a place where i have to be nice to everyone and
keep my mouth shut.

"sex , drugs and Rock'n Roll.."

Those are Earthly pleasures. Enjoy em while you can. I seriously doubt either exist in the afterlife.

"Better then being in a place where i have to be nice to everyone and
keep my mouth shut."

Now your talking about a fundraiser.

I don't think we have any idea what the afterlife will be like.