Parents Not Parenting, Are You Guilty??

I think most parents today are more worried about being a best friend than being a parent.

The tough love aproach has more power than most people think and is far from being cruel or mean to a child. As we all know life comes with choices and those choices can have results good or bad. Children need to be taught to make those choices wisely as they grow and to accept the results. To overlook the fact that they made a wrong choice is just reinforcing that it's ok to be wrong and the results are trivial. Don't deny children of the reality, prepare them for it, life is full of choices.

My wife and I always had 2 major rules with our kids:

1. We never let them play one of us against the other (mom said no so let's check dad out), we respected each others choice.

2. School was number 1, if the homework was done and the marks were ok, they made the choice of what they did after school and on weekends.

Yes I have spanked my kids when they did something that was beyond a "good talking too", sometimes the shortest route to the brain is a good smack on the butt. Some parents should realy try it. If your kids know that you love them and they understand that this is the result of their choice, they soon get over it. Talk to your kids, your in control but they still have a voice, guide them to be better.

Think of it this way: When I was young, I thought my parents were the stupidest people on the earth, but as I got older they got smarter.....

reply to post by Karlhungis

Like you said, teachers don't even bother teaching children how to spell, yet you suggest that parents don't get involved with the homework either? If you want your child to learn something, you need to be involved.

Perhaps what I view as helping with homework is not the same as what you view it as.

You're right, if they need help and in a failing public school system I am sure they DO need help...I meant the parents who say they have to just SIT there while the kids do their homework, to MAKE sure they do it. The ones who obviously have no discipline system in place and can't "make" their kids sit there without sitting there with them.

It's easy, just tell them, you're sitting here until your homework is done and I want to check it afterwards, if you need help call me and I will help." Parents I have talked to can't get their brats to SIT there to DO their homework. That's what I find ridiculous. I am not even going to get into the parents I have heard ADMIT that they do their kids work for them

[edit on 16-7-2008 by LateApexer313]

reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984

What about money responsibility. Kids think they should have tons of money and do absolutely nothing to get it, because they see models getting tons and doing bugger all for it. When i was a kid i had a paper round, it taught me about money and how work meant i had some but had to be careful how i spent it. I wanted a games console, so instead of my parents buying it out right, they told me to save money from my paper round and pay half.

Exactly!

I sent a flier around my neighborhood when I first moved in, asking if any of the local teens on my street wanted to cut my lawn once a week for cash. Guess what? Not one call...I had to call a professional service to do it, which I would have done anyway, but I figured I would ask a teen and give them an opportunity to earn some cash for 30 minutes worth of work. I seriously couldn't believe not one kid called.

When we were kids and had a snow day off from school, we ran and got a snow shovel as early as we could to BEAT the other kids to as many neighbor's houses as we could to get driveway and sidewalk snow shoveling money to buy our records and stuff....man talk about a change in just 20 years!!

reply to post by ThichHeaded


LOL Thickheaded....

I drive around yelling "Pull up your pants for chrissakes, have some DIGNITY" and I am constantly correcting the neighbor kid's grammar and when I see them, they usually walk the other way, because I ask them stuff like, "Hey kids, who's the Vice President?" And they can't even answer and we're talking 16 year olds here lol.

I am surprised my house doesn't get egged, but then, that would take effort and planning, something they aren't capable of doing.

Let me see I have been beaten with sticks boards hands fly swatters belts fists etc etc...

I say spare the rod spoil the fun!

my dad believed in tough love he just forgot the love part

reply to post by Quazga


I didn't really give a cause, I am just saying that, from what I see, this all started in the 60's and has gotten progressively worse as each decade new people are having kids so each decade is worse then the last.

I agree with you totally that these kids are way way overbooked, and they have parents living vicariously through them, and competing with other parents like you said about "who's kid is better."

Just think of the bumper sticker "My honor role student can beat up your honor school student." It's funny but it has a grain of truth in it

I was going through old boxes of books at my parent's house a few months ago, they told me, anything you don't want is getting thrown out...

I found a schoolbook of my dad's, he's turning 70 this year...and I was flipping through it and saw some poems from William Blake, some really hard history stuff, hard grammatical lessons vocabulary words etc and was flipping through it, thinking wow, all subjects in one book, weird...and I said..."Hey Dad was this a high school book or what?" And he flipped through it, found where he signed his name in it, and said no that was my 4th grade text book, Mrs Truax's class." FOURTH GRADE!!

I was FLOORED, the William Blake poems I never even had until college...and the history was way more in depth then anything I had learned before 10th grade, the vocabulary was probably college level nowadays...

And I thought, wow, that's how FAR we've fallen. We've gone from that, to talking about shortening an easy word like "banana"?? It's so pathetic I don't know how it can possibly be reversed

reply to post by Condescending Dogma


Condescending Dogma! That very name, your writing and even
your avatar reeks of overt elitism and capricious intellectualism.

It is ironic that you offer no specific help to parents who so obviously
lack the same computational capacity as that which is present
within your own cranial cavity. You pontificate about your
staid, if not solid, upbringing yet offer no other insider knowledge
as to how others less fortunate than you could lift up their eyes
and see the brilliant light of your own self-satisfaction so that they
may also raise themselves out of the moral poverty
which you so obviously disdain.

Your writing, although taut and eloquent, speaks of matters that
really do not offer much solace to those who seek mindful counsel
in matters of self-discipline, personal responsibility and the rejection
of somnulent slumber in all matters intellectual, physical and monetary.

Perhaps you might enlighten those of us who are of lesser breeding
in various matters of tact and talent so we too may benefit from
your advanced stature within the academic and financial community.

May I request an audience of your current peers so that I may ask
their opinions as to how best to ingratiate myself into the lofty company
of persons with such sheer cerebral superiority as yourself.

---

May I suggest my own rewording of your well-taken advice
using more of a laymans verbiage:

Get off yur butt and stop being so effing lazy as a parent
and actually DO something with yer kids!

And fer you kids, quit wasting yer time on watchin so much TV
and go play outside.

Fer U other adults, stop bein so cynical and condescending.
When U have a couple of kids urself, then tell us how to raise em!

For the OP, I suggest you get your Certified Cisco Network Enginner (CNE)
and Microsoft Certified Systems Engineer (MCSE) designations and get a loan
if you have to in order to take the courses...then learn all you can about
writing advanced SQL queries and all about how to setup, maintain and
backup & restore Oracle and IBM DB2 databases that reside
on clustered computing environments and read and understand all about
setting up and maintaining AES (Advanced Encryption Standard) protected
computing environments.

By the time you're 24, you'll be earning $160,000 a year as a
Chief of Large-scale IT Deployment. If you learn to become fluent
in Hindustani and German and you'll really be raking in the money
as an independent consultant at $300k a year!
You'll get to travel world-wide and your Amex credit card will be
Platinum and not just merely Gold!



Mod Note: Stay on Topic – Please Review This Link.
Your Opinions on the topic, are welcome and relevant.
Your opinions on other members, not so much.

[edit on 17-7-2008 by Jbird]

reply to post by LateApexer313


I used to beat all the other girl's in the neighborhood to all the babysitting jobs. I was working steadily at 13 in the corn fields and house painting. Yes, times have changed. My daughter is finally old enough to cut the grass every week and do the weeding and I have no problem with a small allowance for the outdoor work. She is, however, expected to keep her room and bathroom clean as well as the dishes everyday, she does not get paid for those. She spends it pretty much as fast as she makes it though.

My son, he's 8, has to keep his room and bathroom clean as well as the trash. Those things are expected. About once a week his cousin comes over and the two of them will clean the house/or wash the cars for a small allowance. Little Rush (my neice) is a great motivator and my son always looks forward to her visit. They save for the big things.

I think that's fair, I'm sure some of you won't.

Rush

reply to post by Condescending Dogma


Hiyah Dogma,

Thanks for sharing, I was hoping someone your age would post, to get their viewpoint on their peers, and life and how you see it etc.

No one saw their parents much among my peers. We were largely unsupervised. Our moms all stayed home, which meant, they might as well have worked because they were never home from morning to night, out shopping all day and having lunch etc.

I think that's one of the reasons why parenting got so out of hand, we have my generation, a generation that looks back and thought, gee I want to be around for MY kids because my parents weren't...and now it's gotten so bad that the parents today are TOTALLY focused on their kids...in fact I have few friends that are married and have kids...I can't stand to be around the few I do know as they never can talk about anything BUT their kids...they have no clue what's going on in the world, they have no life except for their kids...their social lives revolve around going to their kids' million sports and activity functions, I don't know how they stand it truthfully, I would think you'd have to have SOME activity just with other adults but apparently not.

Both cases are too far on the extreme ends to be healthy for the kids IMO.

reply to post by hsur2112


Yes I think kids need an allowance for spending money...that's good that yours have chores, kids need to learn that there are certain mundane tasks you HAVE to do that no one really likes but that's life

We had chores that we had to do every week, for no allowance, then we had extra things we could do, or not do, for cash...like cut the grass, weed, paint, etc. So, we didn't have to do them but, but we did, just for the $5 which used to buy one album lol...remember when albums were like $4.99 lol??

I never babysat, but I cut neighbors grass for extra cash

reply to post by StargateSG7


I do see how Kroenen, the extraordinary assassin from Hellboy, represents the pinnacle of intellectual superiority. Personally I just liked the character design.

That aside, I do apologize for uh, appearing to be haughty. I'm used to writing very dryly for work so that probably doesn't help. It has actually been a while since I've written on a forum like this. Better yet I created this account about two years ago give or take, so the choice in name isn't something I can honestly say reflects my allegedly radiant intellect.

If you want me to give prospective parents advice, then by all means. These are in no particular order and just happen to be what I manage to string together:

I would teach your children to accept who they are, regardless of where it will place them on the social ladder. If I worried about what others, especially those of my age, thought of me then I would probably be a very depressed person. Those who are happy with their core being will be a step ahead of the pack because being comfortable with oneself is the ultimate source of confidence... at least that's what I have come to believe. Perhaps not.

I would also stress an importance in having your child explore the various facets that life has to offer. To have them think the quest for knowledge and experience exists solely in a textbook or in their corner of the world will bring them right into the trap that many have fallen into. The urge to just know and see first hand... well, more can only come when one realizes how infinitely vast and complicated the universe is.

So ultimately I would say do not force them into any one discipline. That does not mean that you should not attempt to introduce them to new concepts, however. I know of more than one parent that attempts to make their child into something they are not. What you should teach them is flexibility if anything.

Focusing solely on their strong points is not advisable, though. There comes a point when we have to acknowledge our failing points, and as a parent you should help a child recognize them. Realize there is a difference between helping them realize it and tormenting them with it. The latter can lead to some very troubling outlooks on life... which ultimately leads to undue stress.

I won't touch on 'morality,' because that's a very subjective thing. Base things like courtesy, good intent and general compassion towards other humans (to a certain extent - i.e.; don't turn them into a bleeding heart that gets walked on) are mandatory in my opinion, but that's all it is: an opinion. Whatever else you want to add is your own prerogative.

If anything, please do not force any teachings upon a child. Allow them to come to them on their own. Introductions to philosophies are fine, and I encourage that to a degree, but exploration is a very personal matter. Do not hesitate to answer questions, though.

Any parent that takes part in this board more than likely will teach the ultimate lesson: question. Both the skeptic and the man in the tin foil hat question that which they see, so its importance is beyond anything I could muster up. I feel I would not give it due justice.

Truly, I was attempting to show that it is not always necessary to beat your child to send them down the path of being a decent human being, as opposed to the OP's stated points. Again, it is not my place to say as to whether or not I really fit the criteria of a 'good person,' but I would like to think I do.

And to clarify, I do not see myself as better than others, just one who has taken advantage of the informational resources available to him. Most people have the capacity to change and realize their potential. The motivation to do so unfortunately appears to be rare, as far as I can tell.

Hopefully that appeases you, but... who knows.

reply to post by LateApexer313


Yes, I think being completely absorbed with your kids will ultimately be bad for them. Independence is something that should be taught throughout their life. A sense of duty and responsibility plays a part in this, but I feel that it should go deeper than that. When a child is able to make rational decisions on their own, when a child is able to find that which defines them on their own... that is when you have truly begun to help them succeed.

In short: they must realize the importance of recognizing the world at large, where they can fit into it and ultimately who they are.

A child that always has a parent to act as a crutch to fall back on time and time again will end up having no sense of what to do with themselves. I know those parents mean well for their children (few would do otherwise), but they need to see they are hurting them in the long run.

The biggest problem is that schools stress self importance and stress self –respect. People are so hung up on kids feeling bad about themselves because of fear of violent reactions to bullies or suicide that they struggle with the important message of owning up to your flaws and mistakes and learning to be confident and independent, and to better yourself with out having your hand held.

Many parents now are selfish because they were taught selfishness as a survival system instead of the lessons they need to care properly for themselves and others.

Firstly I am not a parent,
I am not an adult,
I'm 15 and everyday I toto school I have to ride a #-wave.
now I'm not stupid, lazy or anything like that my parents have spent alot of time with me and I have love for math , science English any subject where can learn something new. Now what the #-wave as I like to call it is, idiots misbehaving ( I am in grade 10, well gr10 sept.) this idiots waste the teachers time get the teacher angry at the entire class so that no one can get anything done. The bigger part is bunchesof so "popular" girls chatting like lawn lowers in case even on exams and hen wonder why they fail subjects and tests, because their parents never taught them anything, only spoiled them, and made them think that the world revolves around them. I live in canada but was born in Bulgaria my parents laugh at the idiot parents who when they see their kid is doing a horrible job still say good job. My dad yells at me and turns my life to he'll if I do something really bad get really bad marks etc but nothing such as a beating maybe a hit on the back but not one that hurts one that says "think about what you just did" I've learned to behave as A human being and to strive for education . My father purchased a new computer for me, we put It together Together. As soon as ixstart working in few days at time hortins I'll be repaying my father not because I must but because my parents have taught me the value of a dollar. This reminds me of people borrowing money and never returning it to me, well guess what I've never done that and will never lend anyone a dollar. Because no one cares to teach their kid values and to value other peoples property too. My parents made me rewrite my homework untill they can read it as if it was typed and now I have easily legible hand writing that doesn't look like he writing on a prescribtion. Tough love is the only love that leaves kids with values and intelligence. Lastly when my English class was reading Shakespeare aloud I was pissed off by the fact some people can barely read the teacher makes no remark but when I read and oh boy do I love to read I sometimes mispronounce three as free not reading the th sound. So people choose to make fun of that. I doubt they will behappy when they can't pass he literacy test.

-S.S.- a firm believer that forums are the only few good things technology has brougt.

when I was a kid, back in the 60's....
I walked home from kindergarten alone every day.
I was outside afterschool with my friends, roaming the neighborhood, which, in my case was downtown.....
don't worry, if I had gotten into trouble, my parents would know long before I got home. everyone knew everyone else, and more than happy to call them and let them know what I had done. and it wasn't like the crap that the parents hand out to the other parents today. these were nice polite people, all who realized that their kids were far from perfect, helping each other out. knowing darned well, that the parent they called today about their kid just may be calling them tommorrow about theirs.
but the point is...
we were all left basically free to explore and learn life's lessons, in a relatively safe environment. the parents didn't have to be as concerned about some fruitcake walking off with their kids, didn't feel the need to watch over them like a hawk, didn't have a bunch of other adults critics harping at them, weren't fearfull that dss was gonna come take them away, and well, we were left alone to fall.....and thus, learn the lesson that only falling can teach!

I often wonder just what effect our unsafe, over critical world is having on the kids. the lessons aren't really learned, unless the fall is occasionally allowed to happen.

I think I may have a different side to this. I was born in the 90's (you can imagine I am pretty young) and I do not think this applies to everyone. I'm not saying it was me who did anything, my parents are the ones I thank. I think I was very lucky for the parents I got, because I think they are very good parents. They are not rich (we are a middle class family) but I thank them for the way they raised me. I don't have a new Next-Gen game console like a PS3 or Xbox 360, I just have an old PS2, which is about 5 years old (the one I have is new, I just mean that PS2s are 5 years old). I don't have a TV or computer in my room, and I don't own a laptop or a cell phone. Most of my friends have most or all of these things, but I don't really care. I certainly wouldn't mind a PS3 but I know they are expensive and we won't get one for a while. I don't really like school but I got 91% in Math last school year because since I started school my parents taught me just to do my homework and to try in school, I didn't have to like it . They don't and have never hit me, they just raised me to try and do the right thing. They are really some of my best friends and I am very happy they are my parents. They also basically never fight (never anything big like an argument with screaming or anything) and it's kind of funny because I have so many friends with divorced parents, I'm think, Wow, I really was lucky. I don't mean to brag, I didn't really have any part in it. I see lots of things that certainly do agree with what you said though. I know teenagers my age that can't read a manual clock! Seriously, I don't even understand how you go through 15+ years of life only readin digital clocks. I get what you are saying and I think it is very true.

ok so some really simple things, i was born in the early 90's same as the guy above, and i too have noticed so many things.

-the "popular" girls just talk all day during their classes and never do any work and then question why they are failing, well if someone had taught them to always do their work and take social pleasure later that might have REALLY helped them. they also spend all class distracting the teacher because no one taught them to listen to figures of authority most of them bitching about the way the teacher teaches....just wow

-now there are those kids whose parents are mostly Canadia, who have never learned of failure so whenever they hit it they dont know what in hell to do about it, if they experienced failure then they would know that they can look at what they did and change, really could help alot of people in high school....not me though ive learned failure everystep of the way and because ive learned failure success is even sweeter.

-i dont have anything fancy, well just a computer and a tv, they are Not in my room, i even did not want them there because if they are in my room its like being isolated from the rest of the world and you lose track of everything
maybe those parents who say thats their kids are fine playing games all day like WoW should get checked up because last thing i remember being in a room playing a game all day is not good for you at all. alot of people i know have consoles Cell phones, the only thing they use their phones for is flashing their new Razor KPLZS v3.432 etc i dont have a phone because i hang out with my friends near by and i dont need it, yet the bill still comes at the end of the month

-my parents mostly ever yelled at me when i was little more like a strong voice then a yell but a smack was needed sometimes, the only reason spanking is illegal in america is because some people over do it, ever hear of that woman that spanks her 16 yr old son thats pathetic, born in Bulgaria there was no point to spoil just like many people who were born in or near europe, because everyday was spent infront of our buildings playing with 30 other kids, _javascript:icon('') at the end of kindergarden we didnt have some spectacular party because we Hadnt accomplished anything, it was like ok you are going to cut your nails, everyone does it , now when you cut your nails the 40th time you get a prize, thats just stupid and reminds me of those parents who have to bait their kids into doing things such as "ill buy you that new toy if you brush your teeth" in my family if i dont want to do simple chores like do my bed, a good old " CLEAN YOUR ROOM, FIX YOUR BED" does the job simple enough but its never needed because i dont want to anger my parents so i do it right away, different from those sweet talking spineless parents, now in restaurants is my favourite, i even have a little story about 3 weeks ago we went to a restaurant with some my families friends, they have 2 kids one is 12 the other is 2, so the two year old started yelling i want this etc, the mother just looked at him and said, in bulgarian BE QUIET OR WE ARE GOING HOME RIGHT NOW, kid shuts up, everyone talks about how she handled it wrong how she could have reasoned with him, reason with a 2 yr old ? what next thing your going to negotiate with your cat or dog ? cmon people its time to toughen up and get a spine, learn to say no or your kid will never understand it

if you show your kid no failure, if you never say no
they will never be prepared for life, they will break down at the first bump in the road and then no matter how many xbox 360s or Ps3's or 50inch tv's you buy them they will still be stuck in the ditch, i even believe there are some guides on the internet how to toughen your love and get a spine, you know who you are ! you can change and its for the better !

reply to post by W35M4N


PLease tell me you are kidding....about the manual clock thing... Still laughing at "manual" clock...but seriously, there are kids, now, in school, that are 15 years old and don't know how to tell the time from a non-digital clock??????

Weeps for the future!

Okay maybe this is too simple, but the purpose of parenting (i.e. animals that spend time rearing offspring after the offspring are out of the womb/egg) is to teach SURVIVAL SKILLS so those offspring can mature and reproduce and raise healthy offspring of their own.

That is it, right there. If parents want to love and coddle, that is fine, but they should never lose sight of the ultimate purpose. It is not about the parents feeling good, or getting recognition, or reveling in the friendship and adoration of their offspring, it is about them teaching their young the skills needed to survive in the world in ALL respects.

Somehow parenting became some sort of weird interpersonal "I see myself reflected in my kids eyes and I can't displine my 8 year old child because then maybe I am not treating them like an equal and they may not like me as a friend and deep down I don't care if they survive I just want to feel good about myself at the moment" sort of thing.

reply to post by scientist

not sure what liberalism has to do with low educational standards. Liberal just means that you think government should consider individual liberty to be the most important political goal. Nothing more, nothing less. Let's stop bringing politics into this, just for once. I know it's a lot to ask.

Two things here: I myself am guilty of using 'liberal' to describe something that is actually not liberalism. I believe the common usage of the term has drifted far from its original meaning. I know that I, despite knowing the actual meaning of the word, tend to use 'liberal' to describe someone who advocates socialism, entitlements, and a lack of responsibility. I think perhaps this was the intended meaning in this case. Any suggestions on a more accurate term to use? I think we could all use one.

Two: politics does indeed have something to do with this topic. There is the recent direct involvement of the Federal government in the affairs of local public schools, i.e. 'No Child left Behind' (also known as 'No Child Moves Ahead'). There is also the socialistic movements which are influenced in large part by the governments. Regardless of what one does, one is still 'entitled' to the same rewards that are earned by others.

This influences parents, who in turn influence children. So we now have this attitude of making sure every child receives identical treatment, even if the child does not deserve it. No scores in sporting games, because someone might get a higher score than someone else; no correction for spelling because someone might do better then someone else.

There is also the aspect of people believing that they should be allowed to control the lives of others. this is an inherently political aspect, since it is through politics and governmental control that such attitudes are able to flourish. It extends far beyond parenting, to one's neighbor deciding what one can do with one's property, or someone in public demanding that once-accepted conduct must no longer be tolerated because it offends them personally.

Now we have people who have never had children demanding that they know better than actual parents how parenting should be done, and this is in many areas enforced by governmental decree. Corporal punishment? No, that is grounds for legal action against the parents, decreed by those who have never had a child (and probably never will). Interest in the child's school curriculum? No, absolutely not, by someone who is not 'certified' to teach. Ironically, these same teachers who denounce parental involvement in schools have never even baby-sat, much less raised a child.

So yes, politics is a big part of the problem. So is loud rap music. ( J/K)

TheRedneck