Ask a Mason

Originally posted by surrealist1978
reply to post by emsed1

 

'Middle management Mason'.......that means nothing 2 me
are u part of? lets say:
The Knight of the Rose Croix,
The Holy Royal Arch,
The York Rite/The Scottish Rite,
The Ancient Accepted Scottish Rite,
The Knights of Malta etc etc

My Questions 2 u
1)What does the symbolism of the white gloves mean?
2) What does Mount Hermon mean 2 u?........
cheers

[edit on 10'2/2009 by surrealist1978]

I am a Master Mason in the Blue Lodge, a Select Master in the Council of Cryptic Masons, and a Holy Royal Arch Mason in the Chapter of Royal Arch Masonry.

We don't use white gloves in any of our ceremonies, but I believe our Prince Hall brethren in this state do. (Although I think maybe we wear them at Masonic Funerals but I haven't been to one.)

I am embarrassed to say I haven't heard of Mount Hermon, but I will put that on my Google list for the day.

reply to post by emsed1



I am embarrassed to say I haven't heard of Mount Hermon, but I will put that on my Google list for the day.

at least your being honest?or I hope so.....
Ok............what does:
The ferris Wheel mean 2 u?
What do ley lines mean 2 u?


[edit on 10'2/2009 by surrealist1978]

Originally posted by surrealist1978
The ferris Wheel mean 2 u?
What do ley lines mean 2 u?

Neither have any mention in Masonry. That being said, 15 or so years before I became a Mason I was hanging out with a bunch of pagans, touring around the UK and dowsing for ley lines between Tintagel and Glastonbury. Quite fun. Nothing to do with Masonry though.

Originally posted by Masonic Light
I can't speak for him, but gloves are not used as part of official Masonic dress in my jurisdiction.

We use white gloves in my jurisdiction during a portion of the Master Mason degree. They are meant to symbolize purity and innocence.

Originally posted by JoshNorton

Originally posted by surrealist1978
The ferris Wheel mean 2 u?
What do ley lines mean 2 u?

Neither have any mention in Masonry. That being said, 15 or so years before I became a Mason I was hanging out with a bunch of pagans, touring around the UK and dowsing for ley lines between Tintagel and Glastonbury. Quite fun. Nothing to do with Masonry though.

Arh ok, I think I may have gotten my wires crossed somewhere
thanks for letting me know....I always thought there was a connection.

Does an apprentice mason have a duty to do whatever his lodge master asks? Obviously, masons like to help each other out, wherever possible, but is it seen as disrespectful to say no to something you're not comfortable with?

I'm thinking there'll be a lot of "no, you don't have to do what your not comfortable with" but, as I've already written in this thread, my husband is in the process of becoming an apprentice and I've found a few people online to chat to about what to expect. All was well but one has now made us both stop and think because she told us how her husband was asked to do something and it wasn't so much what he was asked but how. Something along the lines of,

"I'm master of your lodge and you should do as I ask and I want you to....."

Apparently, he didn't have a problem with what he was asked but why not just ask? Why mention his position and tell him he should do as he's asked? Sort of like pulling rank? Surely that doesn't gain respect?

I would appreciate knowing if this is the norm or if it's likely to just be his particular lodge. Many thanks.

Do the masons have a favorite BBQ sauce and what is it ?
Do they prefer potato salad or bean salad ?
Can you tell me what the symbolism of the owl is to masons ?

reply to post by Maya00a


I'm not sure how best to respond to your question. If the Worshipful Master of my lodge asks me to do something, and it's within my capabilities do comply with his request, and if I have no particular moral, ethical, or legal reasons why I should not comply with said request, I would likely do as asked. Same goes for things my boss asks me to do, or my friends ask me to do, or my teachers ask me to do.

When I was first initiated, it was kind of expected that 1st degree members help clean up after dinner... wipe down the tables and help stack the chairs. There was no penalty if you didn't do it, and, to be honest, I don't recall anyone specifically ASKING us to do it, but it was a job that needed to get done and we were sitting around not doing anything else, so why not? I don't have a moral, ethical or legal reason NOT to stack chairs, after all...

*shrug*

One thing I learned after becoming a Mason... You don't do the right thing because you'll get praise or recognition, you do the right thing because its the right thing to do.

Originally posted by The Utopian Penguin
Do the masons have a favorite BBQ sauce and what is it ?

Universally? No. I tend to like my BBQ sauce sweet and tangy with a bit of bite.

Do they prefer potato salad or bean salad ?

I'm not really a fan of either... pickling and vinegar aren't flavors I care for. That said, I've probably seen potato salad served more often at my lodge.

Can you tell me what the symbolism of the owl is to masons ?

The owl is not used in Masonic symbolism.

Sorry I couldn't be of more help.

reply to post by Maya00a


please keep in mind that each mason is an indvidual. There are people from all walks of life. If the master was a military officer at one time, he might always act like that. But the next year, it will be another master. And in 5-6 years or more, your husband could be the master of the lodge. I have found every mason I have come into contact with was a pleasure meeting so far. I hope it continues forever. Please tell your husband I said congradulations brother, when he get his EA.

Originally posted by The Utopian Penguin
Do the masons have a favorite BBQ sauce and what is it ?

I don't mind as long as it's pretty runny and quite spicey. Jim'n'Nicks do a great BBQ sauce.

Do they prefer potato salad or bean salad ?

Depends on the degree ceremony and what time of year it is

Can you tell me what the symbolism of the owl is to masons ?

To me the Owl symbolizes the death of small rodents after dark. Strangely though I can quite comfortably juxtapose this with "Ow-wul" from Winnie-The-Pooh. And since both Tigger and Piglet have clearly given masonic handshakes in several Winnie-The-Pooh episodes then there's your connection.

A Worshipful Master shouldn't be pulling rank. He should ask the individual, whether they be Entered Apprentices or Master Masons, to do something. The Brother doesn't necessarily have to do it. The Master is chosen to lead the Lodge by the Brothers and most of them understand they are to give him respect, but a Master should not abuse it.

Prime example: I asked a Brother to lead the mentoring program, but he said he was unable to do it. I understood and asked my second choice who just as qualified.

Thanks for the replies.

From my understanding, it wasn't what was asked but the way it was asked - more of a being told, rather than asked. eg. I'm the master so you will do as I say. The guy was a bit uncomfortable with what he was asked but didn't feel able to say no and it was the tone that wasn't appreciated.

It's just set a few alarm bells for me. I don't do well with authority figures, or anyone else, telling me what to do, what to say, etc. I'm my own person and so is my husband and we're good people that are happy to help out anyone, whenever we can, but I just don't like the idea that he could be told to do something he's uncomfortable with. Maybe I'm making a mountain out of a mole hill due to my own issues with authority figures.

We've so been enjoying getting to know everyone (at the lodge here) and they all seem great so maybe it was just a one off and not the norm - that's what I wanted to know really - is it the norm and is it ok to say no if you're not comfortable or just can't do it? As I've never met the Master in question (wasn't the lodge here) maybe it's not a big deal?

The most difficult thing is that, even with all the bits and pieces of info around, it's still virtually impossible to know for sure what Freemasonry is all about. We both love history have endless questions about what's life all about and in today's world it can be difficult to meet like minded, good, honest, genuine people that you can truly call friends - some of the many reasons my husband is interested in joining. I suppose my husband won't really know if it's for him, until he tries it?

Thanks again for the replies. Our own experience, so far, has only been a positive experience (from the local lodge and here on ATS). There are so many Masons across the world that maybe just 1 comment from 1 person can be disregarded. Maybe the Master was just having an off day - he's only human, after all.

It's great that I can come here and ask questions. As a wife of a potential Mason I only have a vague idea of what to expect and most days I'm positive about it but some days I do wonder what he may be getting into and that he'll change too much. I suppose most wives think like that though? I'm getting totally off my original topic now though! No doubt I'll be back with more questions - thanks for taking the time to be here to answer them.

[edit on 23-2-2009 by Maya00a]

reply to post by Maya00a


My perspective on your question about the Master...

I think one needs to distinguish between 'inside the lodge' and 'outside the lodge.'

Inside the lodge, the Master could, for example, ask a brother to learn a part of a ritual for an upcoming ceremony, and unless the brother has a valid excuse, it would be improper for him to refuse.

However, outside of the lodge, the Master has no right to instruct a brother to do anything. The master of my lodge might request that I visit a sick brother, but he may certainly not instruct me to do so.

In my understanding, and from my experience, any officer position inside the lodge is totally irrelevant outside of the lodge. Outside of the lodge, we are all simply brothers, and the Master of my lodge speaks to me as any other friend would.

I think you can rest assured that your husband will NEVER be asked to do anything against his wishes.

Also, as an outsider now, you still might have an us/them type of mental barrier between Masons and non-masons. Once your husband is initiated, you will have BBQs and parties together, and realize that the masons in the lodge will become simply friends. After a while, you will not even distinguish between masons and non-masons anymore. All your friends will simply be friends.

After all, your husband is an average, normal person who is becoming a Mason. Every other mason is also someones husband, and had the same fears and expectations before joining. We are all just normal people, and just like your husband, none of us expect to be told to do something that we do not want to do.

Freemasonry teaches mutual respect and support, and to ask anyone to do something against his will would violate the principles of Freemasonry.

reply to post by Maya00a


Technically, the only thing an Apprentice should be doing is learning his material so that he will be qualified to pass examination, and thus pass on to the next degree.

Once one becomes a Master Mason he takes on greater responsibilities and duties, but these are not burdersome to discharge. For example, should the Master of the Lodge place him on a committee, it would be his duty to accept unless circumstances rendered it impossible.

Originally posted by Masonic Light
reply to post by Maya00a

 

Technically, the only thing an Apprentice should be doing is learning his material so that he will be qualified to pass examination, and thus pass on to the next degree.

Once one becomes a Master Mason he takes on greater responsibilities and duties, but these are not burdersome to discharge. For example, should the Master of the Lodge place him on a committee, it would be his duty to accept unless circumstances rendered it impossible.

I have to admit that freemasonry baffles me!
What you have are people joining at the bottom who obviously wish to climb up the ladder through the second and third degrees yet they have absolutely no idea what awaits them when they get there. . !!!
Freemasons gain knowledge the higher they climb up through the degrees so what do you do when you reach the third degree and find the secrets shared with you appear to be nonsense or uninteresting or alternatively, dangerous? It would seem to me that any really truely inspiring or world breaking truth wouldn't be shared with an ordinary mason who may find it all too far fetched and turn his back and walk away to spill his knowledge to the world press. So the secrets can't be that mind-blowing can they? And if they aren't, what does freemasonry really have to offer? Is it purely the brotherhood idealogy? Or is it the good work they do for charity? Both of these ideals can be found in your average social club!
Either way I cannot see the secrecy aspect being an important part of freemasonry for much longer. If there are mind blowing truths hidden in the upper eschelons of freemasonry I think you can guarntee that ordinary, in-off-the-street, masons would ever get to learn about them.
Its not a secret society its a society with secrets. How I would love to learn what those secrets are. . .

reply to post by Mintwithahole.


I think it's been said before, but the secrets are not as important as the path that led you to those secrets. Freemasonry is like anything, you get out what you put in. If you were to get through the degrees and never attend another function, as long as you pay your dues, you are a master mason, but you would forget the lessons in time. Masonry it a way to live your life. If I was to paraphrase all the incredible secrets I have learned it would boil down to the golden rule. Of course there much more to it than that, but as you said, if it was plots on how to prepare small children for the evening meal, or how to take over the world, somebody would have snitched by now.

Originally posted by Mintwithahole.
I have to admit that freemasonry baffles me!

What you have are people joining at the bottom who obviously wish to climb up the ladder through the second and third degrees yet they have absolutely no idea what awaits them when they get there. . !!!

That is entirely correct, as that is the intent.

Freemasons gain knowledge the higher they climb up through the degrees so what do you do when you reach the third degree and find the secrets shared with you appear to be nonsense or uninteresting or alternatively, dangerous?

Well, I suppose a lot of folks never come back. Some continue to pay their dues, others demit and we never hear from them again. It's not everyone's cup of tea.

It would seem to me that any really truely inspiring or world breaking truth wouldn't be shared with an ordinary mason who may find it all too far fetched and turn his back and walk away to spill his knowledge to the world press. So the secrets can't be that mind-blowing can they? And if they aren't, what does freemasonry really have to offer? Is it purely the brotherhood idealogy? Or is it the good work they do for charity? Both of these ideals can be found in your average social club!

True. There's probably nothing taught in Freemasonry that you couldn't learn reading a handful of self-help books, a smattering of comparative religion, history and philosophy, and then taking the night off to go hang out with your buddies at the bar. And there's nothing wrong with taking that path if that's the one you choose.

Either way I cannot see the secrecy aspect being an important part of freemasonry for much longer. If there are mind blowing truths hidden in the upper eschelons of freemasonry I think you can guarntee that ordinary, in-off-the-street, masons would ever get to learn about them.

They're there... at the 3rd degree, if that's where you want to stop, and at the 32° if you want to join the Scottish Rite. (Guessing the York Rite has its share of mind-blowing truths as well, but I haven't bothered joining...) You just have to be in the right frame of mind to accept them as mind-blowing.

Its not a secret society its a society with secrets. How I would love to learn what those secrets are. . .

Then you could join. Or read the books that have been published. Here's a hint, the mind-blowing secret of the 32° of the Scottish Rite? You know, the degree that's called "Master of the Royal Secret"? Right there in Albert Pike's Morals & Dogma, chapter XXXII, for anyone to read. Go ahead. I'll wait.

Originally posted by Mason mike
reply to post by Mintwithahole.

 

I think it's been said before, but the secrets are not as important as the path that led you to those secrets. Freemasonry is like anything, you get out what you put in. If you were to get through the degrees and never attend another function, as long as you pay your dues, you are a master mason, but you would forget the lessons in time. Masonry it a way to live your life. If I was to paraphrase all the incredible secrets I have learned it would boil down to the golden rule. Of course there much more to it than that, but as you said, if it was plots on how to prepare small children for the evening meal, or how to take over the world, somebody would have snitched by now.

I've never really took the freemasons are lizard people, or that they are part of the NWO seriously for the reasons you and I both agree on. Someone would have blabbed about it ages ago. I go along with the theory that they are people looking for something more than ordinary everyday existence but , and I'm sorry to keep harking on about it, at what cost?
You say you've learned incredible secrets and that they all boil down to a golden rule. While some would say that that golden rule spelt bad news for humanity I wouldn't mind betting that it's something more simple like "be nice" or "look after one another" or something similar. I hope you understanding where I'm coming from? And if that is the case does such a simple message need to be wrapped in a veil of secrecy? I guess what it comes down to is the fact that I hate secrets and have a mistrust in anyone who delights in openly telling me they have a secret but refuses to let me in on it! For me it's like being back in the school ground. . !

Pike mentions the "Light" being an actual entity or "god" or center of worship that is not as sold to the lower levels as knowledge.

Which God or energy do you see :

1 Pikes interpretation of it as

2 When worshipping the light personally who do you think you are giving obedience and servitude to?

3 Dont you realise its a religion behind locked doors, very much like the old catholic Masses in latin the congregation couldnt understand and or read or right, and the priests and such like were behind screen and the "secret" ceremony took place their.

4 If I promise you I have secrets, and hidden Knowledge, which in fact I do that I could never pass on as its orally transmitted anyhow, but If I was prepared to offer you the secrets to some Yiddams and Mantras NEVER published, would you come to my house and Bare your breast, put on a hood, and noose and do my housework and worship me?

Kind Regards,

Elf.