Ask a Mason

Originally posted by Matrix1111


I'm finding that the true reflection of Masonry is being shown in how Masons like you deal with non-member's questions -- whether "informed" or not. What I'm detecting is an arrogance that comes from Masons being part of some "secret" knowledge. If we're not part of the secret, then we're dumb? Geez. I'm getting quite an education here. Thanks for the opportunity. And to think I've been leaning in favor of Freemasonry.... until now.

Hi Matrix,

I wanted to provide a helpful link that I think many ATS members might like to look at. It is an old print of a freemasonry structure diagram that does a pretty good job of describing masonry. (It's a big file if you have a slow connection).

Freemasonry Structure

It has a lot of information and can be quite confusing but I wanted to point out that if you look at the bottom center of the diagram you will see the three 'steps' that make up Blue Lodge Masonry, IE Entered Apprentice, Fellow Craft and Master Mason.

These three are considered the 'whole' of masonry. All the other degrees, orders, rituals and titles are optional and lateral. That is to say that once you are a Master Mason you are the equal of every other Master Mason.

Some masons join the other rites and bodies to pursue their knowledge or focus on a specific charitable area.

Much of the strange tales and spooky stories come from these degrees. While there are some ATS masons who are also York Rite, Scottish Rite, Shrine or other order, the fundamental reason I wanted to start this thread was so people could get answers about 'Freemasonry', IE the first three degrees.

As for myself, I haven't joined any appendant bodies because I want to get the full masonic experience.

The other thing to point out is that there are literally hundreds of organizations that have been associated with masonry, or have tried to insinuate themselves into masonry. In fact, I found out at our meeting last night about another little-known body called the 'Sciots'. It appears to be a social club made up of masons.

The main thing I wanted to say, though, is this. The 'secrets' of masonry are not the words, oaths, rituals or grips. I think people focus too much on these but they really mean nothing.

When a mason says he can't give you the secrets it means two things. He can't tell you the secret words simply because he promised his brother masons that he wouldn't. But, as you have seen in this thread, ALL the passwords, rituals and handshakes are easily available on the internet, in bookstores, etc.

The secret of masonry is not something that can be given. It is something that has to be experienced. You could probably fake your way into a lodge meeting with passwords and handshakes, and you could probably even make yourself a fake ID card and nobody would know. The only way to discover the secret though is to actually join a lodge and go through the degrees.

I am honestly not trying to put up a smokescreen. It really is that simple.

I just wanted to have folks ask questions about all the things they have 'heard' about masonry so we could answer them honestly. Also I believe very strongly in the ATS philosophy in this forum that the members can assume a conspiracy is present until proven otherwise. I think this kind of discussion is in the best spirit of ATS.

I would feel the same frustration if you were a high-ranking CIA member and I asked about aliens and you told me they didn't exist and just go away.

If you told me you would answer all the questions you are allowed to honestly and let me draw my own conclusion I think I would trust you more and respect the fact that there are some things you simply cannot answer.

So don't let our inability to answer some of your questions frustrate you. I honestly have never heard of the things you are asking and I think my brothers haven't either. It's possibly that what you seek is not in masonry, but by all means don't let that deter you from your journey.

Masonry is just one way to get to the truth and there are many paths, grasshopper.

reply to post by Matrix1111


Look, I'm going to say this, I was out of line with my second comment, and I'm sorry. I was up all night and haven't had a good end to a rough day and night yet. Should have left my nose out and let someone else take care the problem.
SO, I'm sorry, please continue, just, y'know, read a bit more, ok?

Originally posted by RuneSpider
reply to post by Matrix1111

 

Look, I'm going to say this, I was out of line with my second comment, and I'm sorry. I was up all night and haven't had a good end to a rough day and night yet. Should have left my nose out and let someone else take care the problem.
SO, I'm sorry, please continue, just, y'know, read a bit more, ok?

Geez! I'm done with this thread. If I respond to posts I haven't read on page 7 before reading posts on page 9, I'm reprimanded for not doing my homework correctly.

Bye.

I found a great link that has a ton of masonic info on it. I think a lot of masons know about this link but it has a lot of free books, etc.

www.phoenixmasonry.org...

I'm not endorsing or refuting it, just offering it for review.

reply to post by RuneSpider


I have already replied to your message in another post today to emsed1's reply to my previous post. Please see it.

Originally posted by 360Degrees
reply to post by RuneSpider

 

I have already replied to your message in another post today to emsed1's reply to my previous post. Please see it.

I am not sure what you are talking about. This is your first post on ATS.

Are you one of the Anonymous posters?

I tried to backtrack the posts you refer to, but there appear to be a lot of anonymous posters.

Perhaps you can re-state your question or comment?

Thanks!

I admire your willingness to answer questions on the organisation you are a member of. However, the most efficient way of hiding the true intent of an organisation, is to have a majority of members that adhere to a casual, innocent agenda and utilise them as an unknowing disinformation and positive PR machine.

[edit on 16-7-2008 by mrmanuva]

Originally posted by mrmanuva
I admire your willingness to answer questions on the organisation you are a member of. However, the most efficient way of hiding the true intent of an organisation, is to have a majority of members that adhere to a casual, innocent agenda and utilise them as an unknowing disinformation and positive PR machine.

Can you describe the power structure of such an organization?

Originally posted by mrmanuva
I admire your willingness to answer questions on the organisation you are a member of. However, the most efficient way of hiding the true intent of an organisation, is to have a majority of members that adhere to a casual, innocent agenda and utilise them as an unknowing disinformation and positive PR machine.

[edit on 16-7-2008 by mrmanuva]

I admit it would be hard to refute this statement if I were an unknowing PR machine.

I do honestly believe everything I have said and the answers I have given. No mason has tried to silence me, but I suppose if I am helping cover for them it makes sense.

We are obviously all seekers. We are here on ATS for that reason.

It's my turn to ask a question though. Please don't take this as baiting or as sarcasm, I genuinely want to know what you have to say.

In your opinion what is the true intent of masonry? What is it they don't want me to know and to what end?

Does it stand to reason that if an organization had a secret agenda that the members would know more about it or non-members would have the truth?

I came to masonry from a very skeptical viewpoint and challenged masons on many of the same points, but I have been satisfied in the answers.

Please, join the discussion and let us know what you think.

reply to post by mrmanuva

Originally posted by mrmanuva
I admire your willingness to answer questions on the organisation you are a member of. However, the most efficient way of hiding the true intent of an organisation, is to have a majority of members that adhere to a casual, innocent agenda and utilise them as an unknowing disinformation and positive PR machine.

[edit on 16-7-2008 by mrmanuva]

The '' hidden in plain sight'' strategy,

mrmanuva, that was a very good post, only smart, real good
conspiracy theorist, can put light over conspiracies...

P.S. ( and by the way '' Joshnorton '' mrmanuva was talking about Freemasonry.....

Originally posted by Achilles 13


The '' hidden in plain sight'' strategy,

mrmanuva, that was a very good post, only smart, real good
conspiracy theorist, can put light over conspiracies...

P.S. ( and by the way '' Joshnorton '' mrmanuva was talking about Freemasonry.....

Respectfully, Achilles, you are not adding anything constructive to the thread.

If you have evidence please provide it, because posting 'attaboys' doesn't help either side of the discussion and only derails the conversation we are trying to have.

I do try to avoid posting in forums I Mod but I have a short question.
Is there a title or rank as Grand Master instead of or in place of Worshipful Master

Originally posted by Sauron
I do try to avoid posting in forums I Mod but I have a short question.
Is there a title or rank as Grand Master instead of or in place of Worshipful Master

The leader of a local lodge holds the title of Worshipful Master.

Each state has a Grand Lodge that oversees the lodges in that state. The leader of the Grand Lodge is called the Grand Master.

PS

Each Worshipful or Grand Master serves one year and then a new one is voted in.

[edit on 7/16/08 by emsed1]

Originally posted by Sauron
I do try to avoid posting in forums I Mod but I have a short question.
Is there a title or rank as Grand Master instead of or in place of Worshipful Master

Grand Master is master of the Grand Lodge, while Worshipful Master is master of an individual lodge. All regular individual lodges are chartered by a Grand Lodge. Usually the Grand Lodge is the authoritative body for an entire state. So, I believe there are 51 Grand Lodges in the US with additional Grand Lodges for Prince Hall Masonry. (And, of course, a number of Grand Lodges in other countries...)

There's no over-arching body that unites (or governs) all Grand Lodges, but in general there's a reciprocal recognition with the United Grand Lodge of England (or UGLE). Thus, all "regular" Freemasonry is defined by such recognition.

[edit on 7/16/2008 by JoshNorton]

reply to post by emsed1
reply to post by JoshNorton


Thank you both very much, I assume this is also for Canada. The only reason I ask this is because my X's Father rest his soul, told me once he was twice Past Grand Master, but I don't know if it was from the Scottish Rite or the Masons as he belonged to both.
Again thank you both.


edit- to add more words
just cause I say the words in my head don't mean I typed them yet




[edit on 16/7/2008 by Sauron]

reply to post by Sauron


In Canada, there is a difference Grand Lodge in each Province. In many jurisdictions, including mine, it is customary for the Grand Master to serve two terms, but he must be re-elected.

The chief official of the Scottish Rite is called Sovereign Grand Commander. He is the presiding officer of a Scottish Rite Supreme Council.

Originally posted by Sauron
Thank you both very much, I assume this is also for Canada. The only reason I ask this is because my X's Father rest his soul, told me once he was twice Past Grand Master, but I don't know if it was from the Scottish Right or the Masons as he belonged to both.
Again thank you both.

In general, the Scottish Rite uses an entirely different set of titles and offices (as do the York Rite). So PGM probably means just what it says in his case. Still, quite the accomplishment. As Emsed mentioned, terms are generally 1 year, and it is an elected position which makes that GM the "head Mason" for the jurisdiction of that Grand Lodge for that year. He doesn't have to answer to anyone! (Though, as with the US President & Congress, the body of the Grand Lodge can overturn a GM's edicts by sufficient vote, I believe... I'm not too clear on Grand Lodge mechanics beyond the basics, and, of course, they could vary from state to state and country to country...)

Originally posted by JoshNorton
Still, quite the accomplishment. As Emsed mentioned, terms are generally 1 year, and it is an elected position which makes that GM the "head Mason" for the jurisdiction of that Grand Lodge for that year. He doesn't have to answer to anyone!

Actually, he has to answer to the entire Craft. At the annual communication of Grand Lodge, he must give an account of his actions, and have them approved.