Some Americans are not supporting our troops, and they should be ashamed!

Originally posted by theendisnear69
Yeah sorry if I can't support someone whos main job is to KILL. Why are they considered heroes for going over to another country and killing people. And they do this to help the elites stay rich and powerful.

Nothing will end the war unless the people themselves refuse to fight.

I hear alot of soldiers say well "it takes courage to go and fight a war that you don't believe in". What is that? Come on that is just sad. It takes a hell of alot more courage to not go and fight at all!

I agree !

"it takes courage to go and fight a war that you don't believe in" - I don't want to support someone that is in that weak state of mind. Where is the logic behind that ?

I also will not support a soldier that believes in this war.

This really is not that unusual and this has happened with every war before.

I am not condoning the infidelity, but humans need companionship. After not being around someone for 1.5 years, I imagine it gets pretty lonely. For both parties.

And it is not like a soldier NEVER ever cheats on their significant others.

My cousin supported her husband all through afghanistan and Iraq. Taking care of their child by themselves. And going back to school so they could have a better life. She had medical issues that landed her in the hospital frequently and kept them from conceiving another child.

Well he figured since he was a veteran he should have whatever he wanted and one night when his wife was in the ER, he ignored the calls because he was out getting his girlfriend pregnant.

And he thought he should have both a wife and a gf.

If all soldiers themselves never cheated on their SOs, Prostitutes in foreign towns wouldn't have so much business.

No one is innocent completely. And yes, while those at home have it easier, they are still frought with worry, the spouses are trying to run EVERYTHING, and make ends meet, and take care of the children if there are any, and that is no small task in itself.

The fact is that soldiers shouldn't be deployed for 18 months at a time. And more then once at that. Everyone suffers all around.

Not having human touch on either side for over a year just must be trying. And many of us can't sit here and say we would never do it. There is not a soul out there who is not prone to infidelity.And for many for far less reasons.
And until you are sunk in utter loneliness and depravity, you need to drop the holier then thou attitude.

Yes they are working hard. Yes I support them. Yes I want them home safe and sound. But they also enrolled knowing full well they could go to war.

Our government needs to take more responsibility and bring people home, have more available counseling services for both parties, even provide babysitters for those single parents at home so they can get out and not feel so isolated.

Our government needs to stop treating our soldiers and their families like chattel. And take responsibility for what their acts of war are doing to the families.





[edit on 9-7-2008 by nixie_nox]

Originally posted by Dave Rabbit
You Don't Have To Support A War To Support The Troops. Volunteered or not, my hope is for each of them to come back home to their families and friends.

IMEO, of course.

Dave

You don’t have to support the people who sent the troops to fight the war, to support the troops fighting in that war?

OK, then by that twisted logic.

The people who did 9/11, I support them and their actions. They were brainwashed into fighting a war with, what was seen as the enemy. They were nice people once, I don’t support terrorism or the people that sent them in to commit these crimes, but I support the people who carried out them crimes.

Tell me Dave, does a Middle Eastern man have the right to say that?

Or is it just American logic that permits you to think that.

Originally posted by Dave Rabbit
"It's the Soldier, not the reporter,

who has given us freedom of the press.


It's the Soldier, not the poet,

who has given us freedom of speech.


It's the Soldier, not the campus organizer,

who has given us freedom to demonstrate.


It's the Soldier, not the lawyer,

who has given us the right to a fair trail.


And it's the Soldier who salutes the flag,

who serves the flag,

whose coffin is draped in the flag,

that allows the protester to burn the flag"

The average age of the military man is 19 years.

Still Supporting The Troops!

Dave


[edit on 7/9/2008 by Dave Rabbit]

A persons dream to become a reporter, poet, campus organizer, lawyer but instead takes an easy way by joining the arm services to perhaps get education that may lead to those careers.

A soldier is an average person who sacrifices their morals to pursue a way of life to live, learn and survive.

When an organization encourages the average person to join and fight at the front lines. They become a sack of meat to keep the standards at a level who orchestrate where these hired thugs will war.

A soldier is a citizen first and a combatant second. Once the realization that they feel they have no recourse as to how their government should use their power, they then become a tool.

A government is only as strong as those who support them or ignore them. One person says the citizens should go to Washington and protest on behalf of the troops. Hog wash! A soldier is a citizen.. but have become complacent in order to safe guard their own interests beyond their countries and citizens needs.

How many soldiers in other countries rebelled when they knew the dictator in power was abusing their country? How many US citizens both in civil and government positions dare rock the boat?

They don't because it's all about material wealth in the west.. its so easy and cheap to find a distraction. Keeping up with the Joneses or finding something to make one happy to dilute their surrounding from views and opinions that may differ from theirs.

As I said.. if and when the average American is threatened, then by all means defend a nation.

But as it stands.. due to insecurity in the US economy and the ease of getting something by trading in ones morals and beliefs, soldiers are nothing more then $ being exchanged for land and oil.

How many other atrocities are going on in other places in the world and there is no strong arm tactics?

Russia wanted to place war heads in Cuba.. a sovereign nation. The US blockaded the ships with the weapons. Now the same country US, is placing shields around Russia, against Russia's request. Why the hypocrisy?

The US has no moral grounds.... not those in power, and those who serve them are intentionally blinding themselves to the atrocities they perform due to fear of consequences they feel they will face. Every action has consequences... how far one is willing to take it is dependent on how strong one is spiritually and mentally as a person.

Blending in or fitting into a group or organization is just a way to play safe by not suffering the consequences of ones own actions.

[edit on 9-7-2008 by Willbert]

Originally posted by Nohup
I shouldn't be expected to "support the troops" any more than I should be expected to "support the supermarket checkers" or "support the long shore fishermen," because what it boils down to is that they are people doing the jobs they volunteered for.
Yeah, the job sucks, and yeah, they could get killed, and a lot of them ended up somewhere they don't want to be. But the same can be said of a lot of jobs. The only difference is that theirs has an obvious political connection.
I support the troops with my taxes, just like I support the cable repair guys with a check. My cable repair guy seems to do just fine without my moral or emotional support.

I am active duty.. I am a warrior.. My primary job is to kill.. Super market checkers don't have protests at their funerals. Do you spit at the cable guy if you don't get Cartoon network? Just remeber the day YOU DO NEED US WE WILL BE THERE! Thanks for your support.

A Samurai’s Creed
Anonymous, Circa 1300

I have no parents; I make the heaven and earth my mother and father.
I have no home; I make awareness my dwelling.
I have no life and death; I make the tides of breathing my life and death.
I have no divine power; I make honesty my divine power.
I have no means; I make understanding my means.
I have no magic secrets; I make character my magic secret.
I have no body; I make endurance my body.
I have no eyes; I make the flash of lightning my eyes.
I have no ears; I make sensibility my ears.
I have no limbs; I make promptness my limbs.
I have no strategy; I make “unshadowed by thought” my strategy
I have no designs; I make “seizing opportunity by the forelock” my design.
I have no miracles; I make right action my miracle.
I have no principles; I make adaptability to all circumstances my principles.
I have no tactics; I make emptiness and fullness my tactics.
I have no talents; I make ready wit my talent.
I have no friends; I make my mind my friend.
I have no enemy; I make carelessness my enemy.
I have no armor; I make benevolence and righteousness my armor.
I have no castle; I make immovable mind my castle.
I have no sword; I make absence of self my sword.

Originally posted by InterWeb
Look OP, the best thing you could tell your American GI friends to do, is go back to Iraq, all line up in the city, take out their guns and blow their brains out their shells.

Wow you said this out loud! The people I'm speaking about are cool, they are popular at work, they have lots of friends and family. And it would please you for them to do this? It would make you happy for them to kill themselves?

You admit many of the soldiers are kids, and most likely didn't make the right decisions for joining the military...........

I don't know what to say here anymore.

*edit to add* brainwashed or not, kids or not, some of these people your speaking about are my friends and have suffered a lot, and with what goes around comes around, I hope someday you get a little taste, and when you do, remember what you have said here.



[edit on 9-7-2008 by LDragonFire]

I'm Canadian not American but the troops do not need support. They need to go home. I am a personal believer in a non-aggressive lifestyle, unfortunately not many people share that view. If EVERY SINGLE person on this planet would open their eyes and minds and embrace individuality rather than fight over it you would not need ANY troops because no one would need protection. Too bad we can't create our own utopia... oh wait yes we can.

SRI kudos to you! That was a phenomenal post. I also applaud the guy who said that instead of telling the troops to not fight why don't YOU get up and do something about it. Complain to your congressman, tell your neighbours to complain; there are many, many solutions if you would take the time and do something about it such as: kick out the administration (if so many of you don't like them then your democracy isn't working), remove the laws that land your loyal countrymen in jail for refusing to bear arms (you'd be surprised how many would leave the service instantly), protest this particular war if that's all you are against. It's your country and right now the fight is on your front doors. There is enough crime, poverty, and corruption in the US to go around. Everyone claims that "people" are so evil and so far gone, etc. This is untrue. Human beings are just lazy. Even worse, that laziness is increasing and is going to wipe us out.

There are infinte social issues that need to be addressed right now and more and more are being created daily; the old ones just aren't given any more media attention and quickly fade from consciousness. At the end of the day instead of sitting on the couch, staring at the computer, or going to the bar - go join the big brothers/sisters organizations, do some volunteer work with people with disabilities, write a letter to your local politician expressing how you feel about the state of things (positive and negative!), go visit a homeless shelter or senior's home, like there are so many more productive things you can do. My recommendation is that each and every one of you go out and buy a baseball bat, now use that bat to mangle your TV, now go play baseball. And meditate.

People are not evil nor are they past a point of redemption. The society we have created, however, needs to be put out of its misery and we all need to stop feeding off its decomposing corpse. It should not be a matter of supporting our troops but supporting each other. I do not get support for the job I do, and I do not need it, but you better believe it makes my day every time I get a compliment or a nice gesture. I find it a sad state of affairs when one little compliment is enough to light up my day, though.

To the troop supporters: I'm glad to see some human beings still exercisisng empathy. Apply that in every aspect of your life now and put yourself in the position of an Iraqi citizen. Your country is littered with Americans there to exploit your resources and your people. They pay off your government and police (oh wait you don't need to imagine this part) to put down protests and cover them over. The leader of your country has become greedy and lusts for power after getting a taste of what the Americans have; the same people who are selling weapons to your enemies as well as your allies by the way. They then decide that your country is a mess so they come in to "clean up". Now they are bombing cities, breaking into houses with suspicions (police can't break down YOUR door without a warrant/evidence, why can the military do it in another country?), killing your friends and family, defiling your beliefs, building massive complexes on areas your countrymen could be utilizing, etc.

You want to tell me they're protecting you? They're protecting you from yourselves and the backslash you're spawning around the globe. Wake up already. You can say it is the government, the banks, or whoever else you want to pin it on but you're the one who has the vote and uses those ATMs.

Originally posted by Dinamo
anybody who doesn't support his country war veterans should be ashamed.

I don't understand people who are against them.

ok they don't support war, they have a right to think that.
but not supporting soldiers?? like soldiers choose what to do. only choice they made was to fight for their country. and then people are ashamed of them. what kind of sick logic is that?

be ashamed of your politicians -- they were you choice - they sent soldiers to war . they were your responcibility - so practically you the people sent soldiers to war.

be proud of your veterans - it will be sad day for country when nobody wants to become war veteran for his homeland.

Again, you telling me what I should feel is a loss for America.
So not supporting them is against them?
You do not understand logic, I am sorry. I will help you out however.
www.infidels.org...
There ya go. The consensus of people in this thread that are not supporting the troops is that:
1. We do not support the war
2. Our Troops are waging the war.
Conclusion, we do not support the troops. Not we are ashamed of them. Not we are spitting on them figuratively as previously implied. We simply dont support them. We don't agree with what they are doing and so we dont send them cookies. I dont even send cookies to all the people I do support.

If you can't be comfortable with a choice I make that does not harm others then you have no idea what america is about. It's not your decision to make for me. You have your own, and I respect yours. the fact that can't respect mine back is a slap in the face to the founding fathers.

reply to post by LDragonFire


Did that hurt Dragonboy?

Maybe you should go away now and think about the people who are really hurting. in countries your friends should not be in.

Originally posted by the_one_below
reply to post by Nohup

 

The difference is that 90% of the young impressionable guys that join the military do so in believing that what they are doing is right, and that they are doing it to protect their way of life and the way of life of their families and friends. So if you agree with the war or Bush or all of that is not really the point, the point is that these guys are willing to stand up and defend people like yourself that don't respect them or think that anyone else should.

I've asked several times and haven't got an answer. Defending me from what exactly?

Originally posted by InterWeb
reply to post by LDragonFire

 

Did that hurt Dragonboy?

Maybe you should go away now and think about the people who are really hurting. in countries your friends should not be in.

No it doesn't hurt me personally, but I do have a new found since of what our service men and women are going through.

*edit to add* can we debate this without name calling?

[edit on 9-7-2008 by LDragonFire]

And just to prove my point that it is not that hard to support each other:
I am 21 years old. In my life already I have worked for 2 years with people with mental disabilities and for 6 months I was managing and working in a group home for 3 people with behavioural problems (temper tantrums basically), I spent 5 summers doing volunteer work before that refereeing soccer and at summer programs and events for children ages 6 - 12. When I mow the lawn or shovel my driveway I will do my elderly neighbours yard as well. These are a couple of things I do, and just a few of the options out there. Please pick yourselves up and start doing some kind acts of charity, it feels great and you're being productive.

While there was a large contingent of cowardly Americans who insisted that the US had no business in Vietnam, they are ignorant of the SEATO agreement that also brought Australia, New Zealand, and South Korea into the war.

So your opinions make you cowardly? Yes fighting communism is like fighting drugs and terror, the unseen enemy.

I'm not willing to martyr myself for less than self defense, sorry. If you feel that makes me a coward thats fine, but fighting (killing) for less than self defese is deplorable IMHO.

[edit on 9-7-2008 by jprophet420]

The problem most of you people have is that you never understood the military, you have probably never even talked to someone in the military. Because of this you all sound like idiots.

I grew up in the Army, served in the Army, and live in a military town. My next door neighbor is in Afganistan and my other neighbor is retired military. And I forgot to mention my father is in Arlington Cemetary.

The O.P. stated that this was not a discussion about the war but about how families are torn apart. If you cannot differentiate between the two or if you have so much time on your hands to be here constantly bashing the troops, then move out of your parents basement and get a life. You can support the troops by living, breathing, drinking, screwing up like everyone else.

Also; if your country is not involved over there, shut up and mind your business.

I have to say that I still do not support this war in any way, shape, or form and found it difficult to support the troops fighting it...that is, until one of my best friends in the reserves was called to active duty. It changed my perspective a bit, though I still do not support the war, our troops have no say in what war they are sent to. They have no clue what our government may do and have little choice in the matter. That being said, his wife remained faithful to him during his stay. This may not be the case with others, but you also have to think sometimes how hard it is for those at home to deal without their loved ones; those left to care for a child (or more), a home, a job, etc. all with short notice - not that it is anywhere near the intensity of fighting a war. Lonliness and stress can make one do things you would never normally do. Now, I'm not saying it's okay for them to do these things, but I can see how this can have an effect on those certain individuals. I don't think it's a matter of "I don't support my soldier, I'm going to go 'do' some other guy, now", but more stress related. There are the stresses at home by those left alone just as there are stresses brought home by those sent abroad. Just my two pennies.

Originally posted by InterWeb
reply to post by Dave Rabbit

 

load of junk.

Like was it the Soldier that gave the people the right to protest in that American campus when Vietnam was going on? or was it he who was sent in to take the life of said demonstrator.

And don’t go on about World War II, that was a war that needed defending. Iraq is a war that is senseless, just like the fakeness of Vietnam. The people who fight in the wars are the people who fuel them and walk into them with, what seems now a days, no thought of mind.

The people who defended against the rise of Hitler, where people who had to take a stand, as Hitler was invading most of Europe. The young brain-dead GI’s that are walking the streets of Iraq right now, don’t even know why they are there, could not even point to it on a map 6 weeks before turning up and mostly want to come home!

[edit on 9-7-2008 by InterWeb]

Common flaw, but in reality take away the propaganda and your in the same situation.

Hitler didn't brainwash Germany into suddenly doing this or all of Germany didn't suddenly become anti-semitic over night. Those men were just following orders like the USA troops are doing today.

If you can justify and support the USA's actions then you can justify and support the muslim terrorists and Hitler and nazi's actions that's the plain reality of the case.

The first crusades can be justified as European self defense etc. etc. Every war in history can be justified.

There is no good or evil in the situation. Just action and reaction.

History doesn't do emotional based arguements any favours now or in the future and this will be shown once again in time;

en.wikipedia.org...

en.wikipedia.org...

Originally posted by Barak89
All of you who want the soldiers to put down their arms and say "no" I have an idea. How about YOU go to Washington YOU go do SOMETHING, because I guarantee you will get off much easier than we will.

Obviously you did not read MY post. That would be YOUR duty, since you pledged to defend this country from all enemies, foreign and domestic.
You fear the consequences of your own choices? Hmm.. Welcome to LIFE....

... do you realize that once the military lays down their weapons our country would no longer be ours.

The country is already lost to corrupt politicians, hence the need for you to do your duty domestically.

.. when an enemy force comes to this country and prostitutes YOUR children.

That would NEVER happen. Stop believing in the boogeyman.

I don't fight to kill, or for this corrupt leadership I fight to bring home my friends and family because I want to see them home safe.

Then come home and fight the real enemy.

I fight now so that when the time comes and my country truly needs me I will still be there

So you're saying we don't truly need you now then? What's the argument again?

...when you change your mind and beg the troops to save you I WILL be there, just like I am here now. Even though you don't want me now.

Beg? I can save myself, or die trying.

Since some see the need to throw in a song about soldiers and Heaven or whatever, I'll add my own little tune. This song is called "Terrorstorm" and it's from the band Animosity. I would hope that every American would take the time to read these words.....

Terrorstorm
----------------------------------------------------------
There were lots of warnings, but somehow they couldn't see it.

The facts don't add up and I'll never believe in the spout of lies and deception.

Now we hand in our freedom for what they are calling protection.

A terrorized population and then look what happens to our administration.

Who benefits?

Who benefits?

Who really benefits from the world ablaze?

Welcome to the new American century where Pearl Harbor is right around the corner.

Even when airplanes are falling from the sky, they are counting on the fact that we will never ask why.

Ask "why it has come to this?"

So many lost.

Where was the most advanced line of defense in the world before the nation crashed down to the ground?

The war on terror is a hoax and we are all being lied to.

Act courageously.

Fight the real enemy.

The greatest threat to our freedom is not terrorism, but what our government does to counter it and cover it up.

The inhumanity is repulsive.

Go beyond the sound bytes and oversimplified official report and open your eyes to a profit driven massacre.

Terrorstorm.

It has happened all through out history.

Cover-ups and false flags used to deceive and mangle our hearts and minds into supporting war.

The time has come to stop using the flag as a blindfold, to stop waving our guns and our gods at the world.

We must seek truth and justice.

Take a close look and see that we the people are the victims of a violent terrorstorm.

Fight the real enemy.


You are the soldier. You signed up for it. You have a duty to fight the real enemy.

Originally posted by capgrup
If you cannot differentiate between the two or if you have so much time on your hands to be here constantly bashing the troops, then move out of your parents basement and get a life.

Ummm...some of us live on our own and pay taxes that pay soldiers salaries So why don't you and all the troops go down to the PX and buy yourselves some duty free goods and then go get an education with your GI bill and keep collecting paychecks for fighting a senseless war (all made possible by us citizens). Gawd forbid you stand up to the hand that feeds you and refuse to fight in a senseless war that has killed 100,000s of people (from all nationalities).

No name needed;

Just goes to show what you do not know. While there are no taxes at the P.X. everytime the troops get a payraise the goods in that store go up just as much, that is why most military families have to shop at Wal-Mart.

I do support the war in Afganistan but not Iraq, so do not put words in my mouth. Most of the soldiers I have talked to do not support the Iraq war, but are there fo r their friends.

I just ask that everyone bashing these troops would just talk to them before running their mouths off. You would learn so much more than you do watching t.v. or reading this web site. Better yet why not go volunteer at the V.A. hospitals. That is about the best lesson you could learn from.

Originally posted by capgrup
No name needed;

Just goes to show what you do not know. While there are no taxes at the P.X. everytime the troops get a payraise the goods in that store go up just as much, that is why most military families have to shop at Wal-Mart.

I do support the war in Afganistan but not Iraq, so do not put words in my mouth. Most of the soldiers I have talked to do not support the Iraq war, but are there fo r their friends.

I just ask that everyone bashing these troops would just talk to them before running their mouths off. You would learn so much more than you do watching t.v. or reading this web site. Better yet why not go volunteer at the V.A. hospitals. That is about the best lesson you could learn from.

May i ask why do you support the war in Afghanistan??