Some Americans are not supporting our troops, and they should be ashamed!

Originally posted by dgtempe
This society is screwed up, and the women or men who are not willling to wait for their significant other, tough as it is, werent worth it in the first place.
Its inhumane to dump someone who absolutely cannot help their situation in this war, or any war, and they are just not worthy. It must hurt terribly, but where'sthe compassion? They look forward to emails, pictures, letters, LOVE, and to deny someone that, its just despicable.

I can only speak for myself when i say i could never ever dump a boyfriend or husband in the service.

Well said and I agree with what you have written.

This thread is a prime example of just how shallow, self serving, and heartless our society has become. I say stand by your man when he is away fighting a war, but so many don't wish to speak about this part of it.

I find it disturbing all those that are against this war, but are not against war. The talk of killing American soldiers just because they are American soldiers bothers me. The labeling our troops as wife beaters, baby killers, and the like just isn't accurate, yes these things occur, but it's the same as labeling all Muslims terrorists.

Not only have we lost our heart, but the dumbing down is shining bright as well.

reply to post by GradyPhilpott


I like the marine poem. That being said there is no reason at all anyone should not support the troops. None. You dont have to like the war (I do not) but a lot of the troops did not sign up with the intentions on being pawns and they are just doing what they are brainwashed to do. Kind of like 99% of all sheeple I mean Americans.

Grady you seriously need to look into war a little more my senior friend. When you look at ALL the wars in the 20th Century. What do they all have in common? The one thing they all have in common is the Bankers made a shiite load of money. I used to question all the wars and the just of them. Vietnam...there is no reason we should not of won that war. So why didnt we and why did it take so long? Because it wasnt meant to be won just sustained so the bankers could make their money financing both sides. Korea, WW!? same thing. WW2 I always used to look at as the just war the true fight for freedom now Im even questioning that. When you look at our banks who actually financed Hitler up unto the very end while people sacrificed by paying HUGE taxes, rationing food, and having their wealth stripped away from the government for the sake of "a patriotic cause" meanwhile the banks made a killing.

So what did all these war cost the banks? Nothing just a few peon lives that means nothing to them. War is the most profitable business and unfortunately people have to fight those wars. These people are our troops. But I dont blame them at all. Once again they have been brainwashed just like most of the people in this country to feel that these wars are just and your not a patriot if you dont follow along and not ask questions.

In final dont blame the troops they are no different than you and me who for the most case signed up for college money not to make money for the big bankers.

Originally posted by LDragonFire
The labeling our troops as wife beaters, baby killers, and the like just isn't accurate, yes these things occur, but it's the same as labeling all Muslims terrorists.

Not only have we lost our heart, but the dumbing down is shining bright as well.

I agree. It works both ways though.

Many pro-war protaganists DO say that all muslims are terrorists. They can't make the differentiation. They are unwilling to listen and are convinced they are right at any costs.

Why? Because its easier to demonise and stick to black and white rather than try and understand and deal with differing shades of grey.

It is as bad from BOTH sides of the argument.

But, you can't deny that some troops are wife beaters and baby killers, in the same vein that some muslims are terrorists.

The Bush administrations legacy is one of Polarisation. The "with us or you are against us" mentality. It sucks.

And in the middle are the troops who suffer from a society that has one side that has been whipped up in a fervour of support, and the other who cannot for the life of them see why they need supporting at all.

reply to post by Azazelus


Well put, love and support are different things, I'm sure many have friends or family in the war, they love them so much, but do not support them participating in this war.


Definitions of support

To carry; to encourage; to assist financially; to substantiate

Like I said earlier, if one feels the war is wrong, supporting soldiers, will only make everyone think it's "right" to carry on the war.

Yes there are many great people in the army.
But supporting them in a war that many feel is wrong, will give them and the world the "wrong" idea.

If you don't support the war, then supporting the troops simply does not make any logical sense. It does not work that way.

If we don't support their actions in this war, it does not mean we do not love them, that we don't care for them, we do not feel for them, we are not compassionate to them, that we don't support them in other ways as humans etc.

It also does not mean we are too scared to join the war lol.




[edit on 9-7-2008 by _Phoenix_]

Ugly thread? Ugly topic, Many Shades beyond just gray, we are talking to many facets to count here. So many different points to ponder, realize and digest to the point of complete disdain!

The current situation is our troops need time to regroup re-arm and re-build to become a true military again.

Throughout this thread, I see battle lines of moral conscience. We are debating whether it is right or wrong to support the people fighting something perceived as illegal and terrible. The "Nuremberg Defense" has been brought up, the Viet Nam "baby killers", etc.

Every attack that has ever been lobbed at the soldiers or the society or the 'ignorant liberals' has been stated here, and stated before, time and time again.

It is time we had a little discussion about the definition of Cognitive Dissonance.

cognitive dissonance is an uncomfortable feeling or stress caused by holding two contradictory ideas simultaneously. The theory of cognitive dissonance proposes that people have a fundamental cognitive drive to reduce this dissonance by modifying an existing belief, or rejecting one of the contradictory ideas.

en.wikipedia.org...

Please note that cognitive dissonance is a natural defense mechanism. While the Wiki article doesn't go in depth concerning the condition, I can tell you that every poster here has displayed it. I'm displaying it. We're all trying to rationalize two extremes and keep them together.

How can we support an illegal war and still feel right for the soldiers who signed up voluntarily, under no coercion, under the scruples of 'protecting the rights and freedoms of America' only to be duped and sent over to occupy a nation in a mission that had nothing to do with protecting America?

This is the biggest question. For you. For me.

I do not support the war. I have friends fighting in Iraq. I have often asked myself if I am a dishonorable person if I do not support the troops and still have these friends fighting in Iraq. How can I look at them? Will I be rabid and angry?

No. Instead, I've tried to resolve my own conscience with a difference.

Forgive the troops.

The armed forces are being abused. They know this, we know this. There are very few under the illusion that this war was justified. We all feel this war is dishonorable. It has been expressed countless times.

But our moral pardon should be granted to those who were duped and led off to fight this war. I do not personally agree with the soldiers fighting. I don't agree with their bullets. I don't like what they've done. But when my friends come home from Iraq, I'm not going to tell them that they are 'terrible people'.

War is not about good people and virtuous principles. There is no honor, no virtue, no good, no valiance in War. However, my friends were not savages before they enlisted. And they still write with a degree of humanity when we exchange letters. They have been through a traumatic experience.

Forgiveness and pardon is all I can offer them. This was my way of clearing their consciences in my eyes.

This thread seems to think that the issue is black and white, and the gray areas are too inflammatory to cross. I do not apologize for 'being a hypocrite' in regards to my own personal cognitive dissonance. But it has brought me understanding.

My apologies for the long post. I just feel something must be said for the sense of human goodwill and charity.

Support the war or don’t. The choice is yours, and nobody can take that away from you.

I think that a better term would be respect the troops. Don’t respect us because of what we do or don’t do, respect us because we are human and we are doing a job. You don’t have to support us just respect us.

Someone said that the support the troops with their taxes that is very true. We as soldiers do what we do because we volunteered to do so.
No one duped us in to joining the military, and anyone who says otherwise is lying or just stupid. We as soldiers do a job that we volunteered for, we signed up for it, this job is not for everyone and not everyone is willing or able to do it. I take what I do very seriously.

You can call me what you want call me a baby killer, a tool of the man, or any of the 1000 other names I have been called, but I will continue to serve so that you wont have to. Please keep bitching and complaining it only gives me confidence that I am still in some small way defending your freedom.

reply to post by Willbert


I'm sorry, but I think you have missed the point completely.

What we have to do is think about 'Who' is in the military. The rules involved when you join and how you are pretty much brainwashed into following orders no matter what.

These people that are in service to this country go where they are told, and do what they are told. Is it right? No. Can they help it? Again, no. The majority of those in service believe the BS that they are fed about why we are in those wars in the first place. They are brainwashed into thinking that certain targets are enemies and that if they don't act first that their reaction may result in their or one of their friends death.

Now, the stats you gave are interesting but really have nothing to do with the American troops.

It doesn't matter if a corrupt administration started a bogus war. What matters is that these soldiers are there believing they are doing good for America.

I have heard people tell me that I don't support our troops because I don't support the wars. Well, that is the biggest bunch of crap. I support our troops fully but I cannot stand this administration and the lies they have used to get our troops in this sorry situation.

Originally posted by Double Eights Most every soldier enlists to protect and defend this country, how can you fault them for that? (I will admit there are those who join just to kill # and blow stuff up).

From my point of reference most every American soldier enlists to:

1) get college paid for
2) get out of mommy's house
3) get a guaranteed job with pay and food
4) get in shape and off drugs
5) get a retirement package
6) play with big brothers expensive toys
7) "kill # / blow stuff up"
8) appease sgt. zimmerman, the recruiter, that calls over and over.
9) keep with the "military family" tradition.
10) to wear a uniform, which attracts loose women

FOOLS

Sorry... no support from Sri Oracle

I'm a farmer
I'm a carpenter
I'm a writer
I'm a plumber
I'm an electrician
I'm a husband and DAILY wife tender

I AM

...and I find something DAMN PRODUCTIVE to do, every day, with or without pay, with or without a boss, and for damn sure without a GUN.

...and I COULD CARE LESS if you "SUPPORT" me, and I'll be damned if I support you for joining the ranks of peons within the hierarchical structure of the self perpetuating corporate war machine.

Many soldiers are also in the military because it's what's best for their families. My brother has four children, and being in the military is his best way to support his wife and children.

easy does not equal best...

Weak bull#, pick up a hammer and CREATE, MANIFEST GOOD, PLANT A SEED....

Oppose the war, in fact, I hope you do, but never, never, say you don't support the troops.

I don't support the war

I don't support the concept of "troops" nor the fools which find themselves locked into the mental fart that they are "soldiers" and that they "have to" finish their tour of duty.

I don't support the concept of a "federal government", especially one that spends most of its "nation's" money on militaristic activities; warmongering.

I am sovereign.... just a native... vagabond, wanderer, gypsy. Those are your troops... NOT MINE.

troops are the weak... the do as your told's...

I support FREE MINDS.

I would be more inclined to "support the troops" if more of them went AWOL.

3 questions:

1) What kind of tank would Jesus drive?
2) Where would the world be if everyone was a "troop"?
3) Where would the world be if everyone was a farmer, writer, or carpenter?

I am,

Sri Oracle

...and I could also care less if I hurt your feelings and you find the need to flame me.

Originally posted by red 5

If you really believe that people who do not support the troops should be ashamed of themselves, or should have charges brought against them. You are worse than the terrorist we are supposedly fighting against. Consider that the military is voluntary and, that you can serve as little as two years. Also that you are released after four years in most cases. So every person who is currently there chose to go into combat, chose to kill for a living.
Now by the same train of thought that you put forward, no one should condemn the suicide bomber for his actions either. He is only supporting his faith, family, and country.

Red 5 you are as ignorant as your post is just plain stupid.

"So every person who is currently there chose to go into combat, chose to kill for a living."

Uh, that is not true and if you had any experience with the military you would know what the hell you were talking about, but since you don't, you're only making yourself and anyone who agrees with you look like a damn idiot. In fact when you join the military you find out that the majority of people who enlist do so to be a part of something bigger, to broaden their skills, to see the world, to enrich themselves. The military frowns on people who enlist for the love of bloodshed and oftentimes kicks those people out if they find out about them before they get sent to combat.

Second, your statement " If you really believe that people who do not support the troops should be ashamed of themselves, or should have charges brought against them. "

I don't think charges should be brought anyone for feeling a certain way or speaking out a certain way. The first amendment guarantees you right to speak out in public how you wish and the freedom of religion to believe however you wish in this country.

I do find it detestable, however, that anyone would not support men and women who are overseas making sacrifices on a daily basis, seeing first hand the horrors of war and DYING to defend that first amendment freedom that you flout so readily. So call me a terrorist if you will, but I suspect anyone with half a brain would only label me a terrorist to your screwed up mentality, not to this great nation.

And I'm not even going to comment on your assinine suicide bomber statement.

Originally posted by King Seesar
It's the way the Country's been conditioned, everything is a craze of the month type thing, years ago a movie like Star Wars would come out and it would be the top movie for about six months with it playing in theaters for about five, now when a big movie comes out your lucky if it's in theaters for three weeks and by the next week another big movie comes out, we have been conditioned for a weak attention span and this spills into other things like war politics ect ect.

Just calling you out on your selective and conjective memory...
Star Wars was "the top movie for 6 months" because it was released 32 theaters and gradually went to others ... the movie cycle WAS longer back then but that was due to less theaters, smaller studios, lesser demand and generally less everything (including population)

besides..Titanic was a round a LONGGGG time..

Your analogy is flawed.
when comparing a dollar today to a dollar in 1945 we usually take into consideration other factors than "dollar vs. dollar" no?

I suggest you do the same.

The goverment do not support the troops as well.The amount of homeless vets returning from the war in insane.These same so called troop supporters on capitol hill were opposed to the GI bill.All this support our troops talk from some of these fools on capitol hill holds no weight.Instead of being hard on the public for not supporting them.Ask your congressman why dont they do something about it.Seems its more important that you wear a fracking flag pin or if you put you hand over your heart during song.No matter how you feel about the war these men and women need the support not just a bunch of lip service.These folks put their lives on the line for this country and now they are struggling to adjust and our goverment just stands by and does nothing.Now they are crying about not having enough troops for afganistan (sp).They way the the vets from Iraq are being treated once they return I dont blame anyone for not wanting to join up.Put the real blame were it belongs. This is coming from a army vet.

I'm not from the states... but I really can't see what the # you guys need to support? I mean... what are you doing down there?

People making topics like this must be some sort of hardcore patriots - you want to support something that's totally wrong - you invaded a country without a proper reason.

If you had spend the money wisely you would have done something to save the climate, Africa and other parts of the world needing help - you are the super nation to do that... but instead you invade countries and make utterly crappy television filled with propaganda, hidden truths and # all over the place.

Has anyone used the Ward Churchill arguement yet against the thread proposal and why the thread title is flawed and misleading???

Would be interesting to see it debated.

Support the brainwashed? I say brainwashed, because the soldiers must be in order to carry out the orders they are given by this commander in chief, GWB. If they were in their right mind, they would refuse their orders, each and every single soldier. Until they do so, then I can not support them.

I will support the laying down of their weapons and refusal to take part in this illegal war where the term ENEMY is so vague that it could include anyone and SHOULD include GWB and his political and corporate cronies. I will support the soldiers taking an offensive onto the lawn of the white house, and capitol hill to end the REAL war on terrorism.

I'm not sure what to say to all this. I tried to read through all the posts but after reading the same freakin thing 100 times I gave up. How can you say we don't know what we are getting ourselves into when we join. I know where I will end up at time and time again, but I have a love for this country that runs deep, deeper than I can say on a stupid forum. All of you who want the soldiers to put down their arms and say "no" I have an idea. How about YOU go to Washington YOU go do SOMETHING, because I guarantee you will get off much easier than we will. Maybe this whole country needs to get off their ass for once and DO something that effects more than just themselves.

Even if we did stop fighting and lay down our arms which I promise you the United States Marine Corp NEVER will, but even if we did you would lose that whole section of our military, do you realize that once the military lays down their weapons our country would no longer be ours. So good hurray for the troops refusing to fight, but now we are left with no military and all those people who supported the troops, gave them strength to fight on despite it all will suffer just as much or more than those who didn't support them, when an enemy force comes to this country and prostitutes YOUR children.

I don't fight to kill, or for this corrupt leadership I fight to bring home my friends and family because I want to see them home safe. I fight now so that when the time comes and my country truly needs me I will still be there, when you change your mind and beg the troops to save you I WILL be there, just like I am here now. Even though you don't want me now.

Forgive me if this seems rambled but It hurts me to see such opposition and what seems like outright hatred, so i tried to voice my two cents as best i could.

Semper Fidelis

P.S. I'm not here to debate this either so don't drag me into it, its impossible to debate with anyone so wrapped up in their "rights" and "freedoms" to see past their own selfish hands.

Final thought on all of this.... and yes, there is a buttload of differences amongst the membership. There are only two ways to act.... Support or Not Support. This is something that each of us must choose the action we want to take. The decision that each of us takes should be respected by the other even though we might want to take a 2 X 4 and beat the crap out of the other person for their stance. But this is what makes our community so great and strong. If we were all a bunch of lambs following the same path.... imagine how boring ATS would be.

I simply leave you all with this.....


"It's the Soldier, not the reporter,

who has given us freedom of the press.


It's the Soldier, not the poet,

who has given us freedom of speech.


It's the Soldier, not the campus organizer,

who has given us freedom to demonstrate.


It's the Soldier, not the lawyer,

who has given us the right to a fair trail.


And it's the Soldier who salutes the flag,

who serves the flag,

whose coffin is draped in the flag,

that allows the protester to burn the flag"

The average age of the military man is 19 years.

Still Supporting The Troops!

Dave


[edit on 7/9/2008 by Dave Rabbit]

Forget about brainwashed, more like brain dead. It’s #ing embarrassing having these just-off-the-PS3 kids running around Iraq, firing at almost everything they see.

Look OP, the best thing you could tell your American GI friends to do, is go back to Iraq, all line up in the city, take out their guns and blow their brains out their shells.

At least if nothing else the locals will have something to play with for 2 hours and we all know how boring it can get when American tourists turn up to your country and start using your neighbourhood dogs as target ranges and your sisters as cluster-bomb testers.

Bottom line, Americans have made America unsafe, you’re not forced to join the Army, just like your not forced to climb into the tiger cage at the Zoo, and then when the animal goes #ing nuts and starts ripping your arms off, you shoot it! (why not just let the tiger have a meal)

Your country was NOT under attack, your people were not being hurt, if this was the case, you would be shooting everything that walks in Egypt and Saudi Arabia right now. If your troops are not smart enough to realise, before they join, that 1) people might not want them in their country and will therefore shoot back! 2) why are we going to this country! (Haven’t we been here before? – oh yes, in the 80’s selling them #ing guns) and 3) War is not nice.

Then tell me, tell us all, why should we just not LET THE F'ING TIGER HAVE A MEAL????????????????????????

reply to post by Dave Rabbit


load of junk.

Like was it the Soldier that gave the people the right to protest in that American campus when Vietnam was going on? or was it he who was sent in to take the life of said demonstrator.

And don’t go on about World War II, that was a war that needed defending. Iraq is a war that is senseless, just like the fakeness of Vietnam. The people who fight in the wars are the people who fuel them and walk into them with, what seems now a days, no thought of mind.

The people who defended against the rise of Hitler, where people who had to take a stand, as Hitler was invading most of Europe. The young brain-dead GI’s that are walking the streets of Iraq right now, don’t even know why they are there, could not even point to it on a map 6 weeks before turning up and mostly want to come home!

[edit on 9-7-2008 by InterWeb]