How big is the threat?

International social democracy?

Sounds good to me!

I just hope these Illuminati idiots will jump out from behind the curtain with all their wonderful schemes of why total centralised control is best within my lifetime.

Then we can kill them and make social democracy a reality.

I mean, say aye if you think we could do more things with this world than what we currently do - who reckons Capitalism et al. are the final political systems to be invented, and couldn't possibly be improved upon?

I don't. Roll on the end of tyranny and the NEW New World Order!

Whoooosssshhh!
Over the head we go!
Do you even know what capitalism really is?
Heres a clue it aint state subsidy of mega corps.
Think Property rights...
And where are property rights conspicuous in their ubiquity and preeminence....
The science of Natural law? Yep!
Universal natural rights of man? Yep!
Tyranny? Noooo!

Also think freedom of trade,
And where do you find TRUE freedom of trade....
As an extension of property rights fundemental to the science of Natural law? Yep!
Universal natural rights of man? Yep!
Tyranny and Quasi-Capitalism? Noooo!

I think your problem is with corporatism, and a reasonable problem to have it is too. But anti-thesising as a result....
Well thats like slitting your throat instead of shooting yourself in the head.

Social democracy, well i dont expect many to be able to see through the omnipresent cynical NWO theatre that is the complicated nothingness of the perennial farcical renaming of the tyrannous elite control system.

But heres some great quotes to chew on...

"Democracy - two wolves and a sheep voting on what's for dinner."
-Thomas Jefferson

A more pertinent phrase could have been 'fiat legislative democracy' but who am i to argue with TJ

And....

"Under Socialism you would not be allowed to be poor. You would be forcibly fed, clothed, lodged, taught, and employed whether you liked it or not. If it were discovered that you had not the character and industry enough to be worth all this trouble, you might possibly be executed in a kindly manner. . . ." [This is compassionate liberalism.]
-Fabian Socialist Bernard Shaw in his Intelligent Woman's Guide to Socialism and Capitalism, 1928.

Oh and again...

"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery."
- Sir Winston Churchill

This does not correctly explain the objectivist's moral and justificative antipathy to the philosophy, but it does eloquently describe socialisms results.

Lets put it all together:

In philosophical parlance i think the last names were "Utilitarian" and "Post Modern". "Authoritarian" was of course the original.
Pol pot, Stalin, Hitler et al would be your archetypal Autocrat/[insert name of the day].

But of course we are free arent we???

�There are none so enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free.�
Goethe

FYI here is the state of the world (western at least) today
Education = Sham
Economics = Sham
Politics = Sham
Jurisprudence = sham
Morality = Sham
Religon = Sham

Want to know how? why? where? Well the info is out there if you have the time and will to study it. Of course the mainstream (institutional dogma) is accepted as evident truth by the sheeple thanks to mass brainwashing when it patently is not.

Fifth Column.. i love how you posted all that info.....
It's so true. Oh so true.

Thank you! Thank you!
Im being serious here this world will send you NUTS when you see through the illusion.
I've seen and known a lot of violence, drugs, hopelesness and poverty and all sorts and i was kinda indifferent to it all but finally realising everything around you is just a sham and the whole world is screwed by something so large and sinister and impossible to totally penetrate is just down right depressing. It hits you like "so whats the point".
And it aint theory its oft based in EVIDENT EMPIRICAL fact.
Just look at the Fed reserve (ive been studying all kinds of economics to get a grip on the macro situation)
Its nice to hear someone who is not a paid up member of the earth sheeple.

You need any info or reading material, or can offer me any insight let me know.
Take care

Assuming for the moment that your fears and suppositions are true, what do you believe should be done about it?

From a USA perspective to make it simple:

1. Abolish the privately owned Federal Reserve.
Sue the share holders of the fed and return the money as a tax rebate.
-Install temporary 100% gold/silver backed dollar until private legitamte banks have capital to fill gap then return capital to tax payer
2. Privitize the Military-Industrial complex (in SMALL chunks)
3.Repeal all laws state and federal that violate natural law (this is easy many law precedents are based on common law and natural law).
4.the abolition of the executive branch of government and ALL legislation creating powers.
5 Ammend constitution giving supreme competance to Natural law which renders all conflicting laws null and void.
6. Prosecute all traitor politicians and federal employees sentence of death.
7Remove ALL civil policing obligations from federal control, disband FBI, state police local PD etc.
8 Distiribute federal firearms to local militias and community groups for natural law enforcement.
9Invite donations for the judicial branch as an important Natural law adjuicator with NO POWERS Of FUNDING and watched like a hawk by unpaid congressional observers.
10 privitise EVERY state operation, health, welfare education etc
11 Annex the UK and apply the same laws.....
OK im dreaming now.

It aint a thorough plan and there will be problems but the concepts of right stand.

Okay Fifth Column, I agree with most of your points, but what about:

"privitise EVERY state operation, health, welfare education etc "

- We had mass privatisation in Britain during the Thatcher years and it's brought us a bunch of disparate, corrupt and ineffective companies screwing around with vital networks people need on a day to day basis.

Surely a system of heavily monitored yet centralized governance for things like medicine, housing and transport would be useful? It's all very well for you Americans with masses of space and resources, but in an island economy like Britain, things need conserving, manpower needs organizing and resources need to be allocated effectively.

Also - I love the idea of self-policing communities under no jurisdiction from a police force, but what about:

a) Organized criminal activity terrorising isolated areas.
b) Corrupt militia groups harming, not helping locals.

I'm probably being ignorant here, but you don't half hear some things about American militia forces camped out in nuclear bunkers in the middle of nowhere, armed to the teeth and praising God for the Aryan race......I'd sure want a formalized military force if those guys cam a knocking.

In conclusion then, am I right in understanding what your saying as being "No need to go too far left, we just need a kind of moderated capitalism combined with anarchistic/libertarian elements" (i.e. the no police thing)? I would agree with that, but question specific aspects of that out of fear (if i'm being honest) that extremist groups (such as terrorists, fascists etc.) would screw everything up for the majority.

As addendum - surely a society that forces everybody to live well is better than how you make out?
What is wrong with "forcing" people to eat well, live rightly and healthily and promote a particular way of living (provided the "way" isn't extremist)?


(This is getting heavy now!)

"A tormented mankind stands uncertainly poised between world catastrophe and a golden age."


When Thy Judgments are in the earth, the inhabitants
of the world will learn righteousness� ISAIAH 26:9

turn instinctively to the Bible, in search for an explanation of life and its perplexing problems. Here has been found, not only a mine of Wisdom and Knowledge, but an exact description setting forth, with amazing accuracy, the present troubled world situation with vital information concerning the causes of its ills. Even as the Sun is subject to the great Law of the Supreme Being, so the Earth is subject to Higher Laws transcending those of man. As men have swerved from the Higher Law, the Earth has �gone out of alignment� in its relationship with the rest of the Great Design.





Master Plan

(holds up a copy of the Tao-Te-Ching)

Yeah. Or you can read this.

Because we all know how useful the Bible is.

That's why we were able to prevent mass extermination of human life in World War 2 by flipping to the appropriate chapter, wasn't it.

After all, Christians are dead useful when it comes to solving problems the world over.

Just look at all those Jews the Catholic Church allowed to be killed.

Or the paedophillia.

Or the Crusades.

Or the missions into Africa.

Or (and this REALLY BITES MY ASS) the good old Spaniards - working for the good of Catholicism and commiting genocide in South America against the Aztec, Mayan, Toltec (and so on) tribes - including the burning of nearly all sacred texts, leaving only a few (Codex Borgia, etc.) to survive.

After all, when Ghengis Kahn's troops came rolling into Europe roughly 750 years ago, the entirely Christian Europe found the Bible dead useful to escape the Mongolian threat.

Yeah. Go Bible.

(obviously I'm being slightly disingenous here - on a rough level the nature of all religious texts is well and good, i.e. respect your fellow man, do the right thing, don't steal, yaddah yaddah yaddah, but I really hate the idea that "The Bible can solve all worries", when it blatantly can't - only politics can do that.)

The bible was misused.....

Religions like Catholicism have made mistakes, obviously these people weren't using God's law in which it was meant.


You know corruption?? Yeah, you do. YOu say politics can only fix things, what a load of crap, Politics is worse then any religions out there, who lies to you, you have power tripping issues, who are the ones who will fukc another country up for gain? What kinds of people fix things honourably???

Certainly not politics?? These aholes are the ones who spiriling this world into a huge rabbit whole. These people do not help.
They suck huge asz. I don't think you know what your talking about king ronald.

I don't think you've even read anything in the bible, you listen to a bunch of ninnies talk about how they are good for teh people, and how they are going to fix things, how many times have you seen a politician walk into oval office and do exactly as he promised...

Who really is for the good of all mankind?

Certainly not politicians...

And I never thought I'd hear me talk like this, but sicne i've been doing research, I will say GOD.

You know it in the back of your mind, but you are in denial. Politicians are only good for one thing, Lying.

They do no good. They lie like a rug, and talk out of both sides of their mouth, to appease the idiots who believe in them... Sheeples.

d

[edit on 2004-7-1 by Teknik]

Precisely my point...

Religions......... Whether it be Islamic, Catholic, Mormonism, Agnostic, Protestants, ect......


They don't want to FULLY express God's laws because then they would be contradicting themselves. Alot of religions are in it for the money......

Money is the root of all evil.......... When are people going to get that through their head??


The threat is only big if you continue on the path your on, when you decide to take the next step, which is toward our all God, that is when the change will come.
Nobody is forced to do anything, but if you want to defeat the beast, your going to have stop playing his game.

OUR God?

Listen, the only deities i've got the time of day towards are Tlazolteotl and Tlaloc. I learn from the teachings of the Buddha and Lao-Tse. I refuse point blank to start bowing down to some "One God" concept - that's exactly the sort of monotheistic oppressive stuff that causes people to accept autocracy in the first place.

And like it or lump it, politics shapes our lives, our history, decides what we can do, what we eat, who we fight, etc. etc.

That isn't the "Devils Game" or whatever - it's the self-evolving system humanity needs to master to sort itself out. You need proper Taoist leadership from all world powers - then most problems would be solved within a year.

So, yeah, I do kinda know what I'm talking about. And I don't fear any threat of your "Hell" for saying this.

Your entitled to your own opinion.........


But if I must say,

I don't think every world leader needs to be a tao...

With the kind of attitude you just expressed, it's my guess those guys wouldn't be suitable for the job..
Can we say hostile??? I thought that practice was a peace loving, energy moving practice??

I'm sure it goes deeper then that, but if your doing meditation and what not, your attitude shouldn't be so cranky and snarky...

I wouldn't want to put the nuclear on off button in your hands if thats the attitude you folks carry... dangerous...


Also note, I'm aware that politics has shaped histories, and will continue to do for many more years. I know this, I just don't agree with it's what the human species needs because it creates order and what not...

You can have order in many different ways, you don't need the kind of aholes that run our countries now...

my 2 cents

Okay, fair point

I think I should point out that I, as a person, am cranky and snarky and all the rest of it, which is bad of me. The proper Taoist me wouldn't be like that. So please don't use ME as an example for those guys, because it would not be fair!

And I agree that it's the idiot politicians in power at the moment that screw everything up - it would be unbelievably easy to sort out most problems if those people would just get a grip and do the right thing for a change!

Originally posted by King Ronald
Okay, fair point

I think I should point out that I, as a person, am cranky and snarky and all the rest of it, which is bad of me. The proper Taoist me wouldn't be like that. So please don't use ME as an example for those guys, because it would not be fair!

And I agree that it's the idiot politicians in power at the moment that screw everything up - it would be unbelievably easy to sort out most problems if those people would just get a grip and do the right thing for a change!


Yes sir.... I agree..

money is the tool of all evil. greed is the root.

greed is based on want of a good thing to the point that you are willing to be evil to get more of it (wheter sloth, gluttony, or apathy).

based on the deception that more of it will make you happy (which screws over everyone), or the deception that it is more important, or the deception that makes you forget happiness.

greed is losely based of a need, which actually requires you to destroy in order to live (all living things eat). therefore beating evil in this world is rediculosly hard. (i should have just said very hard, i look like an idiot when i mispel #)

I think that is adams curse. "and you shall eat of it all the days of your life." "dust you are , and to dust you shall return"

I asked before. Assuming this is really happening and the threat is as dire as some predict, what can be done about it? Fifth Column is the only one who has comeback with specifics. Thanks, FC.

Originally posted by The Fifth Column
From a USA perspective to make it simple:

1. Abolish the privately owned Federal Reserve.
Sue the share holders of the fed and return the money as a tax rebate.
-Install temporary 100% gold/silver backed dollar until private legitamte banks have capital to fill gap then return capital to tax payer
2. Privitize the Military-Industrial complex (in SMALL chunks)
3.Repeal all laws state and federal that violate natural law (this is easy many law precedents are based on common law and natural law).
4.the abolition of the executive branch of government and ALL legislation creating powers.
5 Ammend constitution giving supreme competance to Natural law which renders all conflicting laws null and void.
6. Prosecute all traitor politicians and federal employees sentence of death.
7Remove ALL civil policing obligations from federal control, disband FBI, state police local PD etc.
8 Distiribute federal firearms to local militias and community groups for natural law enforcement.
9Invite donations for the judicial branch as an important Natural law adjuicator with NO POWERS Of FUNDING and watched like a hawk by unpaid congressional observers.
10 privitise EVERY state operation, health, welfare education etc
11 Annex the UK and apply the same laws.....
OK im dreaming now.

It aint a thorough plan and there will be problems but the concepts of right stand.

Please explain your usage of the term "Natural Law" in this context.

It's sounds to me like your plan is to balkinize the US, kill or imprison everyone in who is in power now and leave the US open to every foreign power that wants to bend us over. That's pretty much what it would amount to, wouldn't it?

Who pays the Private Military? What if China hires them instead?

Anyway, FC you might like Neil Stephenson's Snow Crash for an interesting read for someone with your take on the situation.

I'm going to ask again. Short of total revolution and overthrow of the current system, is there anything that can be realistically done to stop the NWO if it's really happening.

Oh, I'm a little new to this stuff. Funky Old White Men Who Like To Party? I've not heard this term before? [Edit] Oh, I see. Haha. Thats great...

[Edited on 31-3-2004 by Ambient Sound]

Originally posted by King Ronald
.

K King Ron,
Im English BTW and a "Thatcher child" born into and grew up knowing nothing but Thatcherism. Poor single parent family (im sure you know how we they were disdained at that time). Thus i feel that personally knowing poverty as i did for a long time i can speak on that supposedly compassionless "greed is good" Thatcher/Reagan epoch without accusations of priviledged arrogance.

We had mass privatisation in Britain during the Thatcher years and it's brought us a bunch of disparate, corrupt and ineffective companies screwing around with vital networks people need on a day to day basis.

We didnt have privitisation per se though (im assuming your talking about the rail network) we had corporatist, third way, public private partnership franchise BS! For example if you watch the news reguarly you will have seen the government bailouts of shareholders and government (taxpayer) money going to a supposedly private company for upgrades because of the economic consequences of a potentially non functioning rail network.
Now what is the result? The service is perpetually crap, the franchise holder knows the goverbstards will bail them out with taxpayer money because we have entrusted our lives to BIG government and run to them when anything goes wrong. So there is little responsibility on the shoulders of a supposedly private company. This is not capitalism its corporatism, in a capitalist system an incompetent rail operator would go bankrupt, the irate customers would go
catch buses or carpool or whatever and a rail service would only come back into existence when a competent operator took over the ruins of the bankrupt company.
As an aside rail seems to be a tricky buisness for laisez faire capitalism to resolve, even frontier America railroads were given vast swathes of federal land contrary to Ayn Rands posit.

Surely a system of heavily monitored yet centralized governance for things like medicine, housing and transport would be useful? It's all very well for you Americans with masses of space and resources, but in an island economy like Britain, things need conserving, manpower needs organizing and resources need to be allocated effectively.

Even NWO economists will tell you government hasnt got a damn clue about whats best for "society" (or at least how best to achieve it).
Not trying to sound patronizing, but anyone who has studied a little economics would understand that a free market (even a pseudo free market like we have) is superior to bureaucratic vote winning demagogues flights of fancy. See Adam Smiths "invisible hand" eg a buyer and seller both get what they consider worth from a house deal, they know best NOT some govenrnment suit in an a office appropriating houses to give to folk, this is why you have neighbourhoods of empty government housing some places and high demand others. Anyway thats an economic thing which should make way for the salience of liberty, specifically property rights (inc taxation) which are fundamental to human being itself. As for the poor, one word - PHILANTHROPY.
And on that note, quote time

"It is often easier for our children to obtain a gun than it is to find a good school."
Joycelyn Elders

"Maybe that's because guns are sold at a profit, while schools are provided by the government."
David Boaz

"When buying and selling are controlled by legislation, the first things to be bought and sold are legislators."
P.J. O'Rourke

"Giving money and power to government is like giving whiskey and car keys to teenage boys."
P.J. O'Rourke

"An election is nothing more than an advance auction of stolen goods."
Ambrose Bierce

"Every individual necessarily labors to render the annual revenue of society as great as he can. He generally neither intends to promote the public interest, nor knows how much he is promoting it. He intends only his own gain, and he is, in this, as in many other cases, led by an invisible hand to promote an end which was not part of his intention."
Adam Smith, Wealth of Nations

"If you think of yourselves as helpless and ineffectual, it is certain that you will create a despotic government to be your master. The wise despot, therefore, maintains among his subjects a popular sense that they are helpless and ineffectual."
Frank Herbert, The Dosadi Experiment

"A government that is big enough to give you all you want is big enough to take it all away."
Barry Goldwater

"National Health Insurance means combining the efficiency of the Postal Service with the compassion of the I.R.S. .... and the cost accounting of the Pentagon."
Louis Sullivan/Connie Horner quoted by Novak in _Forbes_

Also - I love the idea of self-policing communities under no jurisdiction from a police force, but what about:

a) Organized criminal activity terrorising isolated areas.
b) Corrupt militia groups harming, not helping locals.

A. Anarcho-Capitalism, basically private policing.
This requires a reformation of law to justice. Justice is the commonly agreed upon punishment of offenders this is where natural law comes in, in short dont do unto others as you would not have done unto you. Everyone worldwide regardless of culture generally agree on these fundemental laws, hence NATURAL law. See: www.jim.com...
An interesting case was Iceland from the 10th to 13th centuries, law was completly private by all accounts it was a prosperous and enlightened society.
As for the poor who otherwise would not be able to obtain justice well the money lies on the perpetrators head thus it can be sold to a private party. This may sound like the wild west and in many ways it is but the fact is the wild west had a FAR lower crime rate than modern American cities.

I'm probably being ignorant here, but you don't half hear some things about American militia forces camped out in nuclear bunkers in the middle of nowhere, armed to the teeth and praising God for the Aryan race......I'd sure want a formalized military force if those guys cam a knocking.

Thats like saying all blacks are gang members doing drive by shootings or all muslims are suicide bmbing jihadists. Sure there is some wackos out there with odd views same everywhere but when have you heard of them attacking anyone? A lot less than the ATF, FBI attacking free people minding their own buisness thats for sure WACO?
IGNORE THE MEDIA NWO PROPOGANDA!
Call them nazis wow! Thats original this is a whole other story infriltraion from feds and such. Fear not though these
PATRIOTS are first on the NWO hit list as with all gun owning patriots militia or not, they will be dead soon enough Waco style. RIP.
Check out their websites find out about them first, just a suggestion try googling Michigan milita. Also a lot of these folks are christians (demonised group nowadays) clued up on the NWO they aint starting trouble they are preparing to defend themselves as is their NATURAL RIGHT. Good luck to them i say.
BTW the guy from the Oklahoma bombing, he came from the CIA's big book of loner extremist patsys. Oklahoma bombing = NWO/Clinton/CIA job. Of course the focus went on militias and their like after that.

In conclusion then, am I right in understanding what your saying as being "No need to go too far left, we just need a kind of moderated capitalism combined with anarchistic/libertarian elements" (i.e. the no police thing)? I would agree with that, but question specific aspects of that out of fear (if i'm being honest) that extremist groups (such as terrorists, fascists etc.) would screw everything up for the majority.

Well the thing is you cant just implement what i would like to see because of the NWO coup de tat that occured a century+ ago, and they have had almost limitless resources to subvert society ever since.
But progression to a libertarian society (which inevitably is economically based on REAL capitalism) is what i would wish for, societal conformity would be based on natural law and thanks to anarcho-capitalism victim crimes would have JUST punishments whilst victimless crimes such as smoking weed being gay or whatever would not be punished as they would be economically unviable to a prospective prosecutor much less enforcable without big government laws.
One major problem would be societys debased morality which has been subverted through attacks on religon, the sexual liberation of the 60's (lack of family structure, "i want" sexual culture, etc) corporatist greed and the rest.
This has been the work of the NWO no doubt , just as religon was obliterated from communist nations, the only way to restore this is through free choice of education for parents (private of course) and maybe philantropic grants to morally good causes.
Terrorists would hardly prosper in such a non-antagonistic society and any that did pop up would be dealt with HARSHLY mwahahah.

As addendum - surely a society that forces everybody to live well is better than how you make out?
What is wrong with "forcing" people to eat well, live rightly and healthily and promote a particular way of living (provided the "way" isn't extremist)?

It doesnt work thats the first problem never has and can only work with TOTAL and ABSOLUTE tyranny. You cant force people not to take drugs for example you can only "lawfully plunder" (Frederik Bastiats correct take on taxation) their money for FUTILE advertising campaigns on drugs and FUTILE law enforcment. Which results in the non drug taking society now addicted to their own drug (big government) demanding MORE action. Its an absurdity and we havent even touched on the human right to self determination.
As for government "force" ummm no thanks!

"If you protect a man from folly, you will soon have a nation of fools."
- William Penn

(This is getting heavy now!)

Yes it is getting heavy, this is a good thing but somewhat daunting also in that to even comprehend the NWO agenda and its operations at an above superficial level we need to both rid ourselves of the pre-conditioning that has been omnipresent throughout our lives and read oft weighty economic/jurisprudential/social sciences/history etc tomes of either the NWO affiliated/usefull idiot academics with over critical reasoning or the hidden treasures which refute their blatantly (you would think...) absurd dogma (central banking, political correctness, etc).
With the proliferation of mindless entertainment (football not included ) the number of average joes reading this stuff has diminished exponentially, for example; back in the late 1700's in America "Blackstones commentaries on the laws of England" was something of a best seller it concerned 'common law' (read; a consensus of the people of what is justice ie "justice must be seen to be done" not LAW but JUSTICE FFS!) this was when law was not formally laid down nationally as it is now by elites. The founding fathers of the US understood this and knew that liberty and the republic would only survive through citizens knowledge on such matters, (of course morality and the will to fight to defend liberty were imperative also).

Phew! That took ages i bet the King doesnt even read this reply after all that

Have no fear Fifth Column, I'm always interested in what you have to say!

Okay.....quite a bit to cover here:

Sorry for assuming you were American - dumb mistake to make, really!

It's good to know that a system of Anarcho-Capitalism can work, and provide a safe community for people to live in - I'll go into that later.

I don't know too much about WACO - all i've heard is basically (and please, any WACO-buffs here, don't gut me if I get this wrong!):

Man named David Koresh sets up a religious cult/organisation (I'm not sure what it's about) and lives happily with various men, women and children in this wooden cabin.......until a bunch of FBI troops randomly decide to set fire to the place and shoot everyone.

My conspiracy-brain starts leaping about saying "The FBI were obviously NWO-controlled" and that "Koresh knew something!" but I can't trust him too much.

Quite why the FBI felt it was necessary to deploy a tank (if I recall correctly) and machine guns against a presumably unarmed group of people is beyond me.

I guess this sort of thing will happen more and more often unless we can stop the NWO.

Er....what else? Oh yeah - Oklahoma was an NWO job? Timothy McVeigh blows up a building.....so.....what, he was a secret NWO agent? Or was being manipulated? Or even more extreme - all the evidence was fabricated and the NWO wanted to blow the building up for some purporse? I'm not smart enough to know all the answers, but the joy of abovetopsecret.com is that SOMEONE out there will know.

You mentioned, Fifth Column, about how peoples morality has become more debased over the years, and religion has lost its kick (presumably that's Christianity you're talking about). As an open question, then, do people need a religion in their lives? I mean, does it make someone a better person, or more morally illuminated if they aren't an Atheist?

I agree, also, with the point that people need less control, not more control, so that they can develop as people to become more responsible. My anarchist dad always had a story about how

"After they got the police to solve all the crimes and prevent anyone from doing things by themselves, no-one helped each other out anymore because it wasn't their responsibility."

.....you know, kinda a parable about the dehumanizing effect of being told what to do all the time: all you end up being able to do is follow orders, not think for yourself.

Now, this next thing is might make me look pretty stupid, but I'm going to say it anyway. Don't all throw bricks at me, and i'm NOT an Illuminati double-agent or whatever, but can anyone give me PROOF that the NWO exists? Not loony stuff about Nazi cyborgs living under Neu-Schwabenland, or evolved dinosaurs from Alpha Draconis attacking Earth in 2012 from their flying city of Planet X, but some kind of....oh, I dunno, real proof that stops me from having this niggling doubt:

"What if it's all a load of phooey? What if the real scumbags on this planet ARE politicians, etc, but they aren't good enough to get organised and control everyone like it says they do - i.e. not running around in labs cooking up ELF generators wearing Illuminati badges and brainwashing Europe through MTV."

Call me a fool but I just want to be SURE, dammit, I just want to have something concrete I can wave in the faces of none-conspiracy types so that they go "Hmm. Maybe he has a point."

This is the thing - there's 10 billion pages of stuff on black helicopters, Dulce, Adam Weishaupt, the Fourth World War devised by Albert Pike etc, but nobody seems to accept it as anything other than "A bunch of crazies making stuff up" - has EVERYONE been mentally conditioned not to see it or something?

It's just that, if the NWO DOES EXIST, then surely that's a pretty big threat to everyone living on this planet, since most people i know wouldn't want to be controlled by.........actually - can the guy who gives me proof possibly explain what the NWO want as well?

I mean, i've got various themes surrounding "Total control, fascist state, dystopia, controlling evil-doers and A REALLY SOUR BUNCH OF PEOPLE", but is global conquest of everyone the true thing they are after?

What i'm trying to get at (and i'm making a poor job of it, I realise) is that if:

A- The New World Order/Illuminati exist.

and

B- We REALLY don't want them to win, as they are BAD.

then surely

C- We better put a stop to all this pretty quickly, or we're all screwed big time.

which leads my tired brain to

D- HOW?

If anyone can provide an answer to that, then they're a genius........and should reply to this thread so we can learn what to do (if you're a dumbass like me who doesn't know lots of important things) and live happily ever after.

-King Ronald-