How big is the threat?

Okay, so basically the big fear is that America and then the world will be turned into one big Fascist police state, due to evil cabbals of rich businessmen and politicians and military types etc.

The evidence for this is:

- Frenzied websites wailing about cover-ups,

- Anomlaous military installations which seem to be effectively Nazi concentration camps (due to that Reagen thing....I forget what it was called, but it's about getting all the social minorities rounded up and shipped off to be detained/executed).

- Black helicopters whizzing around US airspace

- Murky goings-on in underground bases (eg. Dulce)

- Various illegal political actions (for example: Bush winning the election due to his brother messing around with the voting tabs)

- Rumours of terrible things like Child Slave sex rings operating in high-level circles of power (quite possible considering that paedophillia is a widespread phenomenon)

- Blatantly obvious signs for secret power groups cropping up here and there (eg. Illuminati triangle on the US Dollar bill, Masonic logo helpfully carved into that Denver Airport plinth thing)

And of course the *more* extreme end describes (amongst other things) the US Military holding a Stargate warp door to let multi-dimensional Egyptian god-aliens to swarm over the Earth (Stargate Conspiracy), Evolved dinosaur lizard-men called Reptiloids hiding in cavern systems across the US, Gray aliens conducting hidieous genetic tests on humans in exchange for advanced technology and so on.

Have I missed anything out? Very likely considering this stuff consists of sites crammed full of info leading to a million other sites crammed full of info and so on. I'm only one guy, though, and I'm just getting the ball rolling.

The point is, does everyone reckon this threat is real, if so to what extent, when is it going to come to power and go 1984 on our asses and can it possibly be fought?

Friendly discussion - please don't give me a load of posts saying "i'm not going to talk about THEM on an internet forum" - if THEY do exist there's not much point being worried about this: If they're there they already have a bomb implanted in my head from birth or whatever so I'm kinda limited in my options.

Discuss.

I dont agree with all the Lizard and Reptile stuff, but with the Patriot Act stuff and Police State stuff I really agree.

We gave up civil rights/liberties pretty easy after 9-11 to Ashcroft and Bush with the passing of hte Patriot Act, and has it caught any terrorists? maybe one or 2, but it sure has caught money launderers in Las Vegas, operating by depositing under $10G every deposit, it has caught people who have been protesting Anti-War events, but not many terrorists. I can post a link that is more detailed later.

The Police state issue is very real, as the Police and Millitary are gaining more power. There have been reports in Texas where the Army had been training with foreign troops in violation of Possee Commitatus. There have also been reports of new activity at old Internment camps, for whatever reason or another.

We are increasingly moving toward a more cashless society as well with Smart Cards (easily trackable), biometric identification (also easily trackable), etc.


I could go on and on, as I do feel that this Police State threat is very real, just not in effect yet, and if there is another Terror Attack, Patriot Act 2 could go into effect with disables the Patriot Act 1's sunset clauses, and gives the government even more power.


Granted you will probably say it wouldn't happen to me, couldn't happen to me, etc, but that was the same mindset that the German Population had in WWII, and you know what, before too long there was noone left to protect the last of the ones to be taken. They all just had the mindset well its not affecting me, I won't worry about it, and as group by group got taken, soon it was their turn.

although there might actually be aliens of those descriptions founding these certain organiztions, mostly likely they are a modernization of the codes or keywords used to hide themselves in religious documents.

Um get yourself some Alex Jones Video Downloads (as with anything make up your own mind).
U2U me if you need links.

Something interesting is this ~$10k investigation limit on cash transfers of citizens.
That'll stop money laundering right?










SEC (Securities and Exchange Commision) Do not investigate ANY Stock purchases/international contracts/Dubious cash Banking etc on NYSE, NASDAQ et al listed Corps. Yep, thats right you got 10k winnings you want to bank after you been to vegas? You may be talking to the Feds. You got $100,000,000 cash stinking of coke and your your a major shareholder/dealing with aforementioned on a blue chip corp, no problem.

Good Post slugfast,

Things they bank on:
1. That people willl give up liberty for impossible to provide safety (note people giving up the right to own firearms when US law has PROVEN the police have by law NO responsiblity to protect the public)

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it."
-- Thomas Jefferson to A. Stuart, 1791

2.Thoughtless Patriotism:
Seen that Republican senator from Texas, Ron Paul voted No against the patriot act (man i want that guy as prime minister of the UK, Conservative and freedom loving )

��the greater part of the population is not very intelligent, dreads responsibility, and desires nothing better than to be told what to do. Provided the rulers do not interfere with its material comforts and its cherished beliefs, it is perfectly happy to let itself be ruled.�
Aldous Huxley � Proper Studies.

And there in above lies the problem. What was pointedley articulated to me by a conservative American writer was the difference in totaltitarian theory between these great novels (both highly recommended); George Orwellls"1984" and Aldous Huxleys later piece "Brave New World". In an article for a site like townhall.com or something similar i cant remember, he postulated that it was far easier and more effective to enslave the populace by "luxurys and amusement" (brave new world) than fear (1984), as people have always rebeled against the latter.
This goes right back to the romans and their "bread and circuses" as long as they could eat and watch a christian being fed to the lions or whatever they were happy, regardless of the empire falling apart through corruptness and nihlism!
Chances of western society waking up = 0.05 at most.
The facts are out their, particually economic which leaves a trace but people dont care.

And i'll reiterate what most who have studied this will know, democrats or republicans = both the same.

Need to check out Kerrys published equivalent of PNAC for further proof. Thats on my to do list.

Am I right in saying that the main organization behind this New World Order business is in fact the Illuminati?

Allegedly, via a man called Albert Pike they planned out major political events of the twentieth century so as to destabilise various vying power groups (the Jews, the Americans, the Russians etc.) and allow their system of totalitarian control to come about.

Also (at least from what I've read - correct me if I'm wrong here) the Illuminati operate within other secret societies (like some kind of meta-society top-secret group) such as the Masons and the Templar.

So, would that mean that basically the "Big Threat" to us all is the Illuminati, operating from behind the scenes through various political/business/secret ties to major power figures?

Are they the threat?

heres someting ive noticed.you mention military buildups?well one topic i just read says that the Netherlands are on high alert (AWACS flying around) and ive noticed an increase in military flights here in the northwest of England.could be coincidence (war on terror?) but you never know.just thought it might be useful...

I would like to add one thing for those who don't believe in the NWO and think the Patriot Act is good. What the government is about to do is monitor every American in our country in every way possible. Even to the point of putting tracking devices in our skins. Go to www.infowars.com... to see tons of numerous articles on this. My point is the government isn't doing this to keep an eye on terrorist. The way I see it, when the government does this, they are basically saying everyone including me is a terrorist. I am not a terrorist. I've never been in jail or commited a crime. Why does everyone in the country have to be monitored? I guess we're all terrorist in the eyes of the government.

I think the government has far enough advanced technology to keep an eye on the real terrorist without having to put a tracking device in every single person. I certainly believe we could've prevented 9/11. That is if Al Quada actuall was actually behind but I don't believe that. So the point is the real threat comes from our own government. They're the cause of 9/11 whether it was directly or indirectly. They wanted a war.

[Edited on 18-3-2004 by mrmulder]

I guess the big problem facing man politically in these years is about where you draw the line between control and freedom.

It's a double edged sword - do you allow people to live as they want and then kill other people in atrocities, or do you control your population so nothing ever happens like that, but lose any sense of individuality.

Although all conflict is based essentially on differing perspectives, homogeniety on a global scale would be nightmarish. Anyone who has read 1984 or "The Invisibles" by Grant Morrisson - hell, anyone living in police states like Saudi Arabia or Zimbabwe will probably want more freedom, not less.

At what price do our liberties exist?

Can we stay free AND defeat an opposed-perspective group?

(I'm getting more into radical Islamic Terrorism rather that Illuminati stuff, but I think it's still valid)

I�m gonna have to disagree there with your choice...if that makes sense. why would you want to go with the crappy poor end of the secret organisations in the middle of deserts? GO ILLUMINATI! I bet they need to have some SERIOUS cash to keep themselves unknown....un-proven. Most people have some sort of idea about a secret group controlling the world, but there still aint a lot of proof.

I suppose you could look at these two as the classic high contrast:

Illuminati = Unlimited Wealth Vs Islamic Terrorists = No Wealth
Illuminati = A Few, highly intelligent People.... or Beings Vs Islamic Terrorists = Hundreds of dumb ass poor people
Illuminati = Battle Bots / Synthetics Vs Islamic Terrorists = Suicide Bombers

Well im not to sure about all the alien stuff, but the threat of our basic rights beening taken away is very real and likely to happen in the next 20 years

Well, lets try not to get into some kind of offensive piss-taking of "poor ass dumb people"

no....i said
"Dumb ass poor people"
not
"Poor ass dumb people"

that's just degrading

Ignoring the aliens and dulce etc, the facts are that American and Britain (amongst others) are seeing an erosion of basic civil rights because of this 'war on terror'. Not only that, but in the UK we have people backing the terrorists who our government either can't ot won't deport back to their home countries. Maybe they actually want an attack to happen to justify these draconian measures. And I didn't meant the alien draconians either

Well, on the issue of homegrown terror, you have to:

a) Work out who the hell is crazy enough to blow up stuff/gas people/send poison in the post

b) Try and convict them legally (when it's dead easy for them to simply get rid of the evidence, seeing as they are part of an international multi-billion dollar funded organization).

And you can't just deport people back to where they came, if where they came is in fact South London.

Furthermore, you have to watch out for those Aryan motherf**kers - that's right, you know who I'm talking about: the "Jews are scum, death to the darkies" White Supremacist types who'll use racial tension to stir up more trouble.

Finally, I would question the sense in a government screwing itself (because the most likely target for attack would be political and military power spots) just to allow nasty control policies to be implemented - if you're jigged up with the Illuminati, why not simply become Nazi overnight - who's going to argue?

ps - Datters, i stand corrected.

The Patiot Acts.. part 1 & 2.... no electric bugalloo...
READ THEM in their entirety and then come back and say that we are all dellusional.

The aliens, in conjuction with the Rand corporation, under the supervision of the reverse vampires are making our parents go to be early in an evil plot to eliminate the meal of dinner.



Sorry couldn't resist.

Referring to your mentioning of the Stargate program, King Ronald, I would like to know if you have any evidence of this program, or if anyone else on ATS does, for that matter. I don't recall ever hearing anything about that particular program, besides the movie of course.

Mr. M

Ah, well, heh - basically I was in this bookshop the other day and in the "Unexplained" section I read a synopsis and flicked through the final chapter on a book called "The Stargate Conspiracy" (presumably it can be found on Amazon with a search) - it was about some kind of hidden stone portal thing discovered in Egypt, hushed up and smuggled to a lab in America - I think the conclusion was basically:

"All the ancient Egyptian Gods are actually just scary aliens from across the Universe, and they once came to Earth and messed with us building big-ass Mana-Akasa generators (i.e. Pyramids) for their nasty plans. Then they left for no reason, leaving a burned out old portal behind them."

And that the US military worked all this out from translated texts found in the excavation area and wanted to send scouts etc. through the portal -

So yeah, basically a carbon copy of "Stargate" the movie.

Without the rubbish CGI and Jim Henson muppet-cow things.

Like all that Reptiloid stuff, I severely doubt this conspiracy being true, but as I said earlier I was just trying to cover every concievable "Ultimate Enemy of the New World Order" group that might try and take over.

Originally posted by King Ronald
I guess the big problem facing man politically in these years is about where you draw the line between control and freedom.

It's a double edged sword - do you allow people to live as they want and then kill other people in atrocities, or do you control your population so nothing ever happens like that, but lose any sense of individuality.

No you ignore the Hegelian Dialectic:
nord.twu.net...

"development through the stages of thesis, antithesis, and synthesis in accordance with the laws of dialectical materialism " - websters

"Freedom is slavery" - 1984 George Orwell

For a free market global economy what could be better to achieve this than; Fractional Reserve Banking; Privately owned Central Banks monopilising control of (Booming/Busting & profiteering) Fiat Money; The Bank of International Settlements (Rothschilds owned as with the Fed & Bank of England); The World Bank; The IMF; SEC; European Central Bank; NAFTA; European Economic Comunity (now EU).

Third way = Merger of State and power.
Or Fascism/corporatism according to Mussolini. Social democracy according to Enlightened Europeans Neo liberal
chicagoite economics according to Americans.

Ooooh GLOBALISM THIRD WAY GLOBALISM YAY!
I think tommorow we'll call this International social democracy but its not socialism really its democratic you voted for it so it must be! YAY! Social medicne/education/welfare is not Communist dont be a silly billy its socialist not international socialist.

Education to help our children learn and achieve their potential the UN Third way/social democracy.... etc etc
Diversity, achievment and choice via centralised rigid curriculum, enforced to home schoolers, evil people who prevent their kids from achieving the standards of the State provided schools and thier internationally recognised methods and base of study and achievment. WHY how this has improved poverty so! Tres magnifigue! Our poor now independantly philosophise about our independant political and economic doctrines. They even think up new names for them!

Freedom what is freedom? Well as we have seen the classical sciences are all subjective and thus is freedom.
Sooo we will compromise, we will only be free when the state (thats a social democratic state btw not communist thats dead social democracy and state militarys saw to that) decides that it is not a threat to the state or our freedoms. For example we will be free to work but not free to not pay taxes, we will be free to educate our youth but not free to do it a non state approved way, we will be free of suicide bombers if we have freedom cameras on every street etc etc.

In conlusion, everthing is fine we have lots of choices independant of one another and thanks to this we will find the right choice and live in a utopian wonderland Hegel said so! Well 1 in 10 of us anyhow the CFR & UN (two completley unrelated organisations working for our benefit YAY!) said so.