Why they hate AMERICA

reply to post by Boone 870


Agitaded must have forgotten truth during his brainwashing.

Originally posted by Agit8dChop
reply to post by Rockpuck

 

So what are you saying?
Because Kurdistan is profiting of its own countries demise, I should shut up and just accept American ocucpation?

Nope. You could take a step off your self righteous pedestal believing your saintly views are in fact just that, the only true and noble way to think.

In reality, it is only perspective.

And when you learn to not only accept that your opinion is a one sided perspective, you might just see the other perspectives out there.

The fallacy of your argument, because a once oppressed people prosper after being liberated, just because religious bigots in the south shoot each other up I am supposed to give a damn?

The only difference in Iraq now then before the war, is now each side has equal footing. No longer will one people oppress the others.

OK, back to the regularly scheduled America Bash Fest.

Well Agit8dChop, I'd have to agree with you about most of what you are saying in your thread, it's disgusting what this so-called government has done to profit off of defense contracts, land deals(9/11) and many many other things that kill people and take what they have, just to make a record profit.. It's sad to see what they Elite will go to to make money..With this war being as profitable as it has been for them, I hope some day that all that blood money comes back to haunt them and I mean seriously haunt them.. The hundreds of thousands of lives that they have destroyed in the name of "pure profit" is astounding..

I don't agree with anything this administration does and I think it's totally disgusting that they only want to "stay the course" until when??? Until they have beaten everyone down so much that they can just walk onto their land, no matter where it is and just take what they want???Well, isn't that what they have done anyway?? Well, I know this, our world is going to change, and pretty darn fast and I hope for our own sake that the knowledgeable people in it, who truly understand what is going on, help to make that change possible, because it is only then that we take OUR power back and start to make things right again..
I feel sorry for anyone (except McCain of course who wants to blindly "stay the course") who has to clean up this mess because it';s going to be the effigy of their administration to clean up the atrocities of others just to try and get back the decent name America use to have before all this happened..

Kudos to you all with the guts to admit the truth, because it is only in being truly honest with ourselves that we can make affective change a reality.

Traditionalist, please explain just how im brainwashed?... add something a little more than that...


Rockpuck?

I highly doubt anything such as 'equal footing exists '

want to know WHY sectarian violence has diminished in the past 6-12months?



Because when we invaded, we opened the door for a massive murder campaign.

See that image?

Equal footing, hah...

clearly, the #tes won control of baghdad, and murdered the sunni's.

Is that an equal footing?

Teh best thing we could of done was LEAVE SADDAM THERE!

Why?

Because he kept the factions in check.
Because he WASNT building nuclear / biological / chemical
Because oil was flowing....
And because Iraqi families were enjoying life, instead of plotting to murder westerners.

Now think of this, Iraq was progressing as a western nations.
Schools, Medical.....

we set it back decades.

And before you go on the 'oil for food' campaign, that little scam he had going was a mere fraction of the scams going on in Iraq by the AMERICAN government in regards to corporate robbery.

The only equal footing in Iraq is '' America is in charge ''

Just look at the oil contracts coming out at the moment.
Look at the protection contracts being FORCED on the Iraqi's for contractors.

Equal footing, HAH..

reply to post by Boone 870


- Wrong, He allowed inspections.
- Hans Blix said Iraq complied, there were no weapons, and no production facilities and more inspections were needed.
-The US intellegence agencies agreed, and told Bush and co that no weapons existed, no intellegence of production existed.
-Sadddam said so himself.
-Saddam asked for discussion to 'clear the air' on these accusations.
-Powell & Condolezza stated in 2000 saddam HADNT rebuilt his weapons or production.

How can we possibly have evidence of weapons and production facilities, that in fact DO NOT EXIST?

Bush Lied, plain and simple.

Bush has disobeyed UN directives, does the US deserve to be invaded?
What about Israel..


Seems the UN Card is ONLY played when its defending america, as soon as its against America's actions or Israel's the ol '' oil for food scandal '' erupts and its immediately branded worthless.

Americans cannot have it both ways,

If saddam violated the UN and deserved invasion, then so to does the USA, Israel.
If The UN is worthless because it was curropt, then you cannot use it as defense for the US invasion.

good posts by agit8dchop i don't think his perspective is that flawed, except for the fact most people in most country's including his own are and would be in the same states of apathy or ignorance thanks in part to perceived helplessness and more personal issues or destracting "circuses" that demand attention

i would also say that the people of iraq and iran or france or ...astonia are by no means better than americans or any other group, or would be if the tables were turned

history is full of sociopath leaders and their minions and regular joe ("good people") caught in between, pressured to take "sides" and form opinions based on propoganda from all involved.

The war may have been waged due to economic pains but this does not justify millions of deaths to civilians....imagine the u.s getting attacked (bombed to oblivion) in the near future and then reading someone in (...Japan or Brazil) saying a few years later ....well it was great for the "consumer economy" as we eliminated the petro dollar and the policy's that forced pegged country's to import high inflation and lowered oil prices by weakening U.S investment banks ( bomb targets) as well which also helped reduce consumer price inflation in country's now that oil is priced in a more stable basket and food commodity's ( as well as oil can't use such high leverage) in finance that desperate u.s banks need to maintain income. i don't think that would be appreciated either



[edit on 2-7-2008 by cpdaman]

reply to post by Agit8dChop


Thank you so so so so much for this thread. As an Australian I can tell you now that we have no real information here on the Iraq war. All I really know is that we are sending good men and women overseas to help the USA into battle for no TRUE reason. Don't get me wrong, I like Americans, BUT I just don't see the point of our nation being dragged into a war that George Bush can't justify.
War against terror? Who's the one creating terror? Did you know that Afghanistan had never heard of suicide bombing/car bombing before this war, and now there are around 160 attacks a year.
THIS WAR IS SO CONFUSING!! I DON'T GET IT!!!!!!

Originally posted by Rockpuck
oh what the hey! .. Just for the sake of getting all the Liberals panties in a bunch I will just toss meh wrench into their little party they got here..

Kurdistan: The Other Iraq

Granted, the US has treated them like garbage, as has the entire World.. apparently though, they are used to it! So much so, that despite international d#k waging and pissing contest that take place all over it's borders .. from Syria, to Turkey, to Iran and Iraq.. how in the World could a people, against the odds... prosper?

And most importantly, who the hell cares? I do. I have made several threads before on Kurdistan, none of which drew attention .. I have no idea why.. for or against Iraq, the progress made by a country within a country is astounding.. it's inspiring, and it shows that with good leadership, culture and national identity and of course the will to persevere, these Human Beings can do anything.

Fun facts about Kurdistan.

Kurdistan is in Northern Iraq, however, the actual Country of Kurdistan is called South Kurdistan. The rest of Kurdistan is currently occupied by Turkey and Iran. Most Kurds live in Turkey
Kurdistan has it's own President. It's own law making body.
Their government actually shows up to work.
They where not put in power by Americans, but rather in spite of Americans.
They have no violence. When was the last time you heard of a road side bomb, a suicide vest explosion, or a military raid? Never. Because it doesn't happen there.
They currently host only 200 American troops.
They armed them selves through stolen oil tapped from pipelines, built an army, and currently do all their own patrols, border checks, reserve forces and so forth.
Kurdistan is currently the resort get away of all other Iraqis.. they welcome Sunni and Shia, so long as they consent to checks at the borders and do not bring weapons into the territory.
Currently one of the fastest Middle Eastern economies. But the only time you ever hear about Kurdistan in the Media is when Turkey attacks them.. but they don't attack South Kurdistan, but rebel Turkish Kurds who cross the border..
It is one of the fastest growing TOURIST locations for Muslims and Westerners alike..

All of which is only possible because of America. Do they have problems of their own? Of course, but in light of their southern neighbors, it's a paradise.

And I could post you pictures of the cities with towering cranes, of new schools and modernizing cities.. of people living in peace without fear, or people grateful to America for the right of self determination ...

But unlike you, I won't use over sensualized pictures out of context for propaganda purposes..

I encourage everyone to research the Kurdish story, may not change your mind on war, but it should be good to know at least some good came of it.

First in depth thread

Part 2

[edit on 7/1/2008 by Rockpuck]

I guess you have not done any research on Kurdistan have you? You have one side of the story. Listen to how my people have been oppressed by you heavenly Kurdish people. But you know, who cares my people have been massacred before.

(AINA) -- Since 2003, the Kurdish leadership has carefully been executing an orchestrated plan to undermine the national rights of the Assyrian people (as an ethnic group and as indigenous people) in Iraq in general and in northern Iraq in particular. The leadership of Barazani and Talabani has undermined and marginalized the true voice of the Assyrian people (also known as Chaldeans and Syriacs) represented in the Assyrian Democratic Movement (ADM) and its legally and constitutionally elected representatives. The Kurdish-ADM relationship has been strained since the ADM's 2003 Baghdad Conference, which came after the fall of Saddam Hussein regime and with the United States promises of freedom to all Iraqi people.

Since 1992, the ADM has worked as a partner with the Kurdish leadership of Barazani and Talabani as both sides (Assyrians and Kurds) were struggling against the common oppressive Pan-Arabist regime of Saddam Hussein. However, after the fall of Saddam's regime in 2003, the policy of the Kurdish leadership changed as real changes began to take place in Iraq. The Kurdish leadership did not want to see the Assyrians as an independent entity and force in northern Iraq so as not to compete with the Kurds over the West's attention. The Kurdish leadership did not favor the recommendations and plans of the ADM that were proclaimed in the 2003 Baghdad Conference. First, Barazani and his Kurdistan Democratic Party (KDP) made sure to divide the one Assyrian people into two or three ethnic factions: Assyrians, Chaldeans and Syriac. Then Barazani brought certain Assyrians and Chaldeans that are members of Kurdish political parties or heads of faux Assyrian and Chaldean political parties and began to push them forward as the representatives of the Christian people in northern Iraq.
Source

Your tourist attraction is actually going through an ethnic cleansing under the hands of Massoud Barzani. The KDP is nothing more then snakes. They were living side by side when Saddam was around, and when he fell Barzani did not want the Assyrians to rise. Please get your facts straight before praising the good leaders of Kurdistan.

FYI, the get away resort for Iraqi's is actually Turkey, Syria, Europe, North America, Australia, and Iran. I know for a fact because I am an Iraqi. I went from Iraq>Turkey>Sweden>Canada.

gee agitated,even though i agree with what you're saying in most cases,you act as if its a breeze to just change these government awipes out like an old tiolet paper roll. you guys over there must have your [SNIP] together.
clumping all americans together like that is right on too. all 300,000,000 million of us think exactly alike. its a good thing theres no divide and conquer going on over here.
since you are the main authority on why everybody hates americans,and you have the solution on how to change a rouge government, you could share your ideas. we certainly need the help.
maybe you could start with the way you stood up to the austrailian government ,when they took your guns...you know when they told you that a firearm had to be locked in a safe,and the ammo had to be locked away in another location? didnt your home invasions rise 64%?
fact is that governments dont represent the people they govern much anymore. and if you think that it takes 6 months to fix a pothole over here ,and yet they can count millions of votes in one night,well,isnt that a little bit gullible? believe me, we know whats going on with the voting system.

i dont know ANYONE that feels as if this government represents the people or cares what we think.
BUT PLEASE DONT LUMP ME IN WITH THE PEOPLE YOU THINK ENJOY THIS OR ARE NOT AWARE OF WHATS GOING ON. WOULD YOU LIKE IT IF I SAID THAT ALL AUSTRAILIANS ARE CRIMINALS BECAUSE OF YOUR ANCESTRY? IF ALL YOU CAN DO IS CRITISIZE,THEN TAKE YOUR LIBERAL SOAPBOX ELSEWHERE!
aussies only have a small number of troops in iraq. why dont you just stoll up to your prime minister and tell him how it should be? i'm sure he'll listen better than our dictator.
even Ahmadinajadhas seperated the american people from the government's agenda.
WHY CANT YOU?

OH AND P.S. I CALLED RUPERT MURDOCH,YOUR FELLOW AUSSIE ,AND TOLD HIM THAT FROM NOW ON THE MAIN STREAM MEDIA HAS TO TELL THE TRUTH. YOU'LL BE RELIEVED TO KNOW HE PROMISED HE WOULD!
HE SAID "SCOUTS HONOR" SO I KNOW HE'S NOT LYING.

[edit on 2-7-2008 by Spectre0o0]

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[edit on 2-7-2008 by Gemwolf]

reply to post by Spectre0o0


read a bit more mate,
many a times Ive said NOT ALL OF YOU ARE LIKE THIS,
Infact, I even said 60 something % are on the right path...

never once have I said one for all all for one...

How about organsing mass strikes/protests?
imagine clogging up the immediate area around the whitehouse for days on end, hundreds of thousands of people sleeping out in the roads, paths...

that'd be a site.

How about standing in front of the whitehouse with a loud speaking and SAYING IT AS IT IS.

telling those criminals to come down...

how about refusing to pay tax...

how about switching off your Tv, and your car and riding a bike.. or walking?

thats just for starters...


and in regarsd to gun laws?

I believe its the right thing.
I mean after all, how many highschool massacres have we had since they took guns?
how many people have gone postal?

hey, your government just continued guns for all..

hope your child feels safe going to highschool.. cause I shoudl as hell wouldnt over there.



[edit on 2-7-2008 by Agit8dChop]

[edit on 2-7-2008 by Agit8dChop]

reply to post by Agit8dChop


because they've already built the prisons,and passed the patriot act,and believe me,the monster is very thirsty for the native's blood. over here we ride the razors edge,even with "free speech".
i'm sorry ,i didnt see the 60% remark,the posts i saw seemed to be collective.

Fair enough,

But that doesnt mean nothing should be done.

IF its worth fighting for, ?

reply to post by Agit8dChop


You have missed the point yet again. The pictures I could show would not be of innocent Iraqis lobbing grenades at soldiers, they would be of the militants and radicals lobbing grenades at the innocent Iraqis. Those same militants and radicals we are there to stop are the ones causing the mayhem there, not us.

Honestly, you aren’t fooling anyone with this thread. You should really change to the name to, WhyI hate America.

It's really quit simple as I have said. It's easy to try and make a point using pictures to lead people.

After all...the terrorists stationed in Iraq and Afghanistan have been causing much trouble for years now...




They have been taking innocent civilians captive....







They have been destroying families and lives without remorse for even longer....




But luckily we as Americans could not sit idly by and allow this to continue...




We had to do something to protect these innocent people...no matter what others would think of us...




It's not always easy or popular to defend freedom...




*********

Kind of paints a different picture doesn't it?

[edit on 2-7-2008 by nyk537]

Originally posted by nyk537
It's really quit simple as I have said. It's easy to try and make a point using pictures to lead people.

True to a point..

But, youve got to look at the reality behind the pictures
Pictures mean bunk, if you pretend they show what you want.

After all...the terrorists stationed in Iraq and Afghanistan have been causing much trouble for years now...

I agree, although, im pretty sure the terrorist attacks against US Troops started, when we invaded their countries.
Funny that,
We invade Iraq, all of a sudden, those Iraqi's are committing terrorist attacks on our occupation troops, the same with Afghanistan

They have been taking innocent civilians captive....

I believe this started when we removed the government, the police and the only ones able to control different factions.
... come to think of it, I dont recall many militia's taking hostages while saddam was around...

They have been destroying families and lives without remorse for even longer....

Once again, I believe it was us that caused this mess..
but in saying that, im pretty sure if we added up all the families devestated from a result of the invasion, compared to the result of militia's... well the occupation would win hands down.

But luckily we as Americans could not sit idly by and allow this to continue...

Idly by?
Let me get this straight.
Fabricating evidence.
Invading
Occupying
Killing/destroying/maiming

is better than us ' sitting by '

Actually, I think '' sitting '' idly by is exactly what majority of Americans wanted us to do from the begining... isnt it?

I wonder how many Iraqi's would consider themselves '' lucky '' (as you put it) for intervening in Iraq.

We had to do something to protect these innocent people...no matter what others would think of us...

That would be ok, if thats ACTUALLY the reason you went it.
I dont think OIL, or Corporate greed, or regional control equates to 'protecting the people' no matter what party you follow.
And you obviously dont care what others think, after all, anyone who said '' Iraq doesnt have wmd's '' or '' the intellegence doesnt suggest wmds ''
you either ignored, turned your back on, publically lambasted... or criticised....

thats some global leader traits there.

It's not always easy or popular to defend freedom...

Your DAMN Right there.
And I applaud the Iraqi's for holding back the american dogs this long.
How does it feel to be resisted? ... much like the germans i'd say!

Originally posted by Agit8dChop
And I applaud the Iraqi's for holding back the american dogs this long.

I've got nothing else to say to you.

Thanks anyway.

reply to post by lw2525

Why don't you educate people on Kim-Jong Il? He's starved his own people to the extent that the average 10-year old North Korean child is 20 pounds lighter than a South Korean child.
North Korean women are forced to have abortions at the hands of unlicensed doctors. Newborn babies are beaten to death... their heads bashed in by soldiers. Children are publicly executed in front of their mothers. Why not post some pictures of that?

Why don't you tell people about Omar Al-Bashir, ruler of Darfur, and his henchman, who have committed atrocities that I wouldn't even discuss here? They've murdered over 2 1/2 MILLION people. Post a couple links about that, why don't you?

Those are just the first two other countries that come to mind.

Why are we not "regime changing" them then????
OIL! OIL! OIL!

THEY DON"T HAVE OIL!!!!!!!

Originally posted by Boone 870
...Do you honestly believe that the American public would have allowed George Bush to invade Iraq if the weapons inspectors were able to access any site in Iraq for the 12 years running up to the 2003 invasion?

I, for one, would not have.

And now that you know, WITH ABSOLUTE CERTAINTY, that Iraq neither has nor had WMDs, nor did they have anything to do with 9/11, what have to done to get us out of Iraq?

That's what I thought.

reply to post by Agit8dChop


I knew you where disgusting to begin with.

And I applaud the Iraqi's for holding back the american dogs this long.

And that earns you a spot on my black list (again). Until your over your latest trend of bigotry and ignorance.

Tell me, are all Australians as ignorant as you?

Originally posted by Rockpuck
Tell me, are all Australians as ignorant as you?

I'm wondering that as well.

He certainly isn't making a good name for them is he?