Obama hits McCain's military credentials via Proxy

Originally posted by LLoyd45
I'd be satisfied if he'd simply speak in plain English that didn't require translation by people like you and BH all the time.. Why do so many people have difficulty understanding what he really said?

The only reason why you don't understand what he said is because you don't want to or you can't figure out a way to spin it to your advantage. It is perfectly clear to objective people.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

Originally posted by LLoyd45
Why do so many people have difficulty understanding what he really said?

I'd rather not say...

Maybe if people read more books?

I have an undegraduate degree and a postgraduate degree, but for the life of me, I can't seem to get one word of what the man says correct. D-mned Public School System!

Originally posted by LLoyd45
Why do so many people have difficulty understanding what he really said?

(This reply is solely about whether Obama ever "really said" anything specific: )

Which conflicting statement do we take at his word?

>What he really said< on what day and to which audience.
It is hard to keep straight the comments of someone who will say anything to get elected.

Barack Obama in 2003, talking to the AFL/CIO:

“I happen to be a proponent of single-payer universal healthcare coverage. That’s what I’d like to see.”

In January, 2008, Obama claimed in a nationally televised SC debate:

"I never said that we should try to go ahead and get single-payer."

Obama's followers talk in a circular logic that 'he didn't really mean what he clearly said he means something else instead.'

Read at

mediamatters.org...

"state level" vs "national level" weaseling out of taking Obama at his often conflicting word.

Martin Luther King said He looked forward to the day when a man would be judged by the content of his character rather than the color of his skin.

IMHO both Obama and McCain fail the content of character test.
***
totally on topic I think:

Why Obama "will not question anyone's patriotism" IMHO is he fails that test also.

Seems he is desperately trying to make that issue go away:
>Obama may face grilling on patriotism<
www.msnbc.msn.com...
>Feb 24, 2008 ... Sen. Barack Obama's refusal to wear an American flag lapel pin along with a photo of him not putting his hand over his heart during the National Anthem.<

Originally posted by himself
>Feb 24, 2008 ... Sen. Barack Obama's refusal to wear an American flag lapel pin along with a photo of him not putting his hand over his heart during the National Anthem.<

You know you blew a perfectly good post with that last statement.

If this is what you are basing your entire opinion on for the next leader of the free world, only shows that you are just as gullible as those you are complaining about.

Please tell me I am wrong. I am hoping that, like you, my fellow Americans are not that gullible.

Originally posted by Hal9000
If this is what you are basing your entire opinion on for the next leader of the free world, only shows that you are just as gullible as those you are complaining about.

I don't think anybody bases their opinion on the lapel pin issue. I think the point that is being made is this:

The last thing Obama wants compared and contrasted is anything to do with who is more patriotic, a veteran and POW or a guy who hangs out with Bill Ayers and Rev. Wright.

Obama is the most underhanded left leaning democrat I have seen in awhile. Most of them stand up for their beliefs and morals whatever they maybe , they have balls, but Obama uses other people and then gets up and burns them to make himself look good. I do hope this nation rallies and see Obama for what he really is, McCain fought for us to have the right to post what we want on these forums, he has the physical scars....Obama on the other hand cant even make it to work. His voting record in Congress is 40/60 meaning he only showed up to vote on bills, 40 percent of the time, 60 percent he didnt even bother to show up. Now I ask you what if you didnt show up for work 60 percent of the time....I think you would get fired..maybe?

reply to post by alienj


Oh, i see. So fighting in the military gives you a "skip straight to boardwalk" chance card?

Regardless of a mysterious past with mccains allegations?

McCains captor, who said they'd vote for him, even says McCain didnt recieve the treatment he claims, and gave proof to back it up.

Article

Pay special attention to the photograph of McCain as a POW. Do you really think they gave them such comfortable looking pillows, beds, and blankets?

Hell, that picture could have been taken of McCain from his early years in college if you didnt know any better.......and if photography had existed back then....


[edit on 1-7-2008 by Andrew E. Wiggin]

Originally posted by Unit541
I merely stated that there are accounts that differ from your personal experience as a POW right alongside McCain back in 'Nam (you were there weren't you?).

No, I did not have the pleasure of that unique vision of hell. I was too young for the draft, by about 21 years.

Originally posted by Unit541
Now, how did he live up to his responsibility to his country, and earn the nickname "Songbird McCain" at the same time?

An unsubstantiated rumor. Those making this claim provide no substance, instead refering to hearsay or incestously refering back to each other. They twist and misquote articles to provide evidence. They can never provide firsthand accounts, using language such as "I spoke to veterans," or "every veteran I spoke to," but never name these men.

Orson Swindle, who was a cellmate of McCain says:

John McCain did nothing dishonorable. He was heroic.

Another POW, George Day says the accusations:

...the most outrageous f------ lie I’ve ever heard.

SOURCE

reply to post by SaviorComplex


MSNBC reports that Sen Obama 'flatly rejected' Gen Clark's comments about McCain.

And, and a quote from George Day?? The George Day who was part of the Kerry "Swiftboating" four years ago??? Does he go bu "Bud" Day? Or two different men?

2004 -- In response to the Swiftboating, McCain said "It was the same kind of deal that was pulled on me." This was a reference to the Bush/Rove slime machine in the 2000 campaign. 2008 -- McCain......not so much....

[edit on 7/1/0808 by weedwhacker]

Clarke is right. Just because McCain was a pilot and a squadron leader, was shot down and spent 5 years as a prisoner of war is no defacto qualification to be president.

In that regard his time in the Senate count for far more.

Note that Wesley Clarke did not slight McCain's service or question it in any way... he just pointed out the obvious.

Also note that after the Obama camp disavowed his comments in the strongest terms, Clarke refused to back down.

reply to post by jamie83

Ah, so the rumor peddler shows up to defend another misled member. Surprise, surprise. Why don't you please let him speak for himself (pun intended) instead of putting words in their mouth? That seems to be what the detractors are doing here in this discussion as well.

So now that you are here, please tell me why does Obama have to be so perfect, while other politicians can get away with double talk or flip flopping? I don't see you pointing these things out about anyone else but Obama? Why is that?

Just like Loyd, this lapel pin and pledge of allegiance rumor is a no win situation with you people. If he doesn't wear it, he looks bad. If he does wear it, now he is pandering. You can use this type of propaganda on any politician . Why do you only use it against Obama?

reply to post by Hal9000


Because that is what paid McCain lackeys get paid to do.
No flaming comments with no substantial and factual base to speak of? PAY DAY

Back on topic:
I find it hilarious that when McCains military record is attacked (which has nothing to do with his skin color or religion, but, arguably, everything to do with his ability to command an army) those in opposition lash back with claims of treason and "unpatriotic remarks"

Unpatriotic...really?
Since when is it unpatriotic to call a B.S. card when you see one?

Originally posted by weedwhacker
And, and a quote from George Day?? The George Day who was part of the Kerry "Swiftboating" four years ago??? Does he go bu "Bud" Day? Or two different men?

2004 -- In response to the Swiftboating, McCain said "It was the same kind of deal that was pulled on me." This was a reference to the Bush/Rove slime machine in the 2000 campaign. 2008 -- McCain......not so much....

[edit on 7/1/0808 by weedwhacker]

"Yes", This George Day who is the most highly decorated officer since General Douglass MacArthur. If his word doesn't count for something, I don't know who's would..

Col. Day holds every significant combat award and is the nation's most highly decorated officer, as well as the most decorated since General Douglass MacArthur. He holds nearly seventy military decorations and awards, of which more than fifty are for combat. Most notable are: the Medal of Honor, the Air Force Cross, the Distinguished Service Medal, the Silver Star, the Legion of Merit, the Distinguished Flying Cross, the Air Medal with nine Oak Leaf Clusters, the Bronze Star for Valor with two Oak Leaf Cluster, the Bronze Star, and the Purple Heart with three Clusters. Col. Day was presented Vietnam's highest medal by President Thieu, two Vietnamese Gallantry Crosses, and Vietnamese Wings, and wears twelve Campaign Battle Stars.

He is a member of the Medal of Honor Society, Legion of Valor, was the first President of NAM-POW's (the Vietnam POW organization), President of the MISTY SUPER-FAC Association, and a member of numerous military and fraternal organizations. Colonel Day was a member of the Code of Conduct Review Board, established by the Department of Defense in 1976 to review POW conduct.

Full Citation

[edit on 7/1/08 by LLoyd45]

The whackjob Obama smear campaigners (and you know who you are) complain that Obama's race is off the table for discussion (I wonder why it bothers them so if race isn't an issue for them?) but at the same time they freak out if you question McCain's record.

Don't ya just love double standards?

reply to post by LLoyd45


So? Like being decorated somehow prevents him from playing dirty politics?

Being decorated for service is one thing but it does not automatically make you a saint or above criticism.

Originally posted by grover
So? Like being decorated somehow prevents him from playing dirty politics?

Being decorated for service is one thing but it does not automatically make you a saint or above criticism.

So, defending McCain from lies and smears is now dirty politics? What kind of twisted logic is that?

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


Benevolent Heretic The reason for the failed understanding is there is no slander in admitting

1. Obama public said McCain's patriotic act is never in doubt.
2. Being a POW isn't a good credential for President.
If it were then the failing of 2 companies, never holding a real job
would be really bad ones compared to a combat vet.


Also there seems to be twist from the OP to make out Obama is a flip flopper.

So in the need to even these up heres a couple goto the source for the rest.

* McCain criticized TV preacher Jerry Falwell as “an agent of intolerance” in 2002, but has since decided to cozy up to the man who said Americans “deserved” the 9/11 attacks. (Indeed, McCain has now hired Falwell’s debate coach.)

* McCain used to oppose Bush’s tax cuts for the very wealthy, but he reversed course in February.

* In 2000, McCain accused Texas businessmen Sam and Charles Wyly of being corrupt, spending “dirty money” to help finance Bush’s presidential campaign. McCain not only filed a complaint against the Wylys for allegedly violating campaign finance law, he also lashed out at them publicly. In April, McCain reached out to the Wylys for support.

* McCain supported a major campaign-finance reform measure that bore his name. In June, he abandoned his own legislation.

* McCain used to think that Grover Norquist was a crook and a corrupt shill for dictators. Then McCain got serious about running for president and began to reconcile with Norquist.

Originally posted by grover
So? Like being decorated somehow prevents him from playing dirty politics?

Being decorated for service is one thing but it does not automatically make you a saint or above criticism.

It demonstrates a certain degree of honor and courage to me, which is sorely lacking in some people.

[edit on 7/1/08 by LLoyd45]

Clark Says Obama Had No Part in His McCain Comments

"Sen. Obama had nothing to do with this," Clark said Tuesday in an interview with ABC's "Good Morning America." "I'm very sorry this has distracted from the message of patriotism that Sen. Obama wants to put out, but I want to make very clear that as a Democrat and a former Army officer I fully respect Sen. McCain and all others who served, especially now on this Fourth of July."
...
"All I know is I served 38 years in uniform. I'm proud of my service and I was asked to give my opinion about professional qualifications based on my experience," Clark said. "I served at both levels — I was a junior officer, I did come back from Vietnam on a stretcher — and I served as a commander at the highest levels ....

"So I have some appreciation for both levels of command and the qualities it takes at the top. I simply say it's a matter of judgment — experience, yes, it's important. It shows character and courage, but on the other hand there are other ways to show character and courage."

It's clear that Clark was not paid to, or pressured to make these comments and he owns them, himself. Obama had nothing to do with it.

The title of this thread is wrong. Too bad the integrity is lacking to admit a mistake and correct it.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
It's clear that Clark was not paid to, or pressured to make these comments and he owns them, himself. Obama had nothing to do with it.

That is all the info you need to believe him? You don't think that Obama's people talked to him before the interview to help coach him?

You are more naive than I thought.

The title of this thread is wrong. Too bad the integrity is lacking to admit a mistake and correct it.

As soon as Obama publically states that he disagrees with Clark (not that flowery crap he sprouted on it already) then the title of the thread is accurate.

He needs to be quoted saying something along the following line "I disagree with Clarks comments about my opponent." Has he said those words yet? No. Just more flowery Obama crap that dances around the issue and does not mean a thing.