The Final Nail In The Coffin: Irrefutable Proof the Flight 93 Crash Scene Is a Lie

TY:

you are claiming the FDR was faked? by whom?

FBI?

tell me who and how this was done? you claim it to be easy, yet the data was extracted by the manufacturer. are you trying to say the people that made the thermostat for my HVAC in my home (Honeywell) are also somewhat responsible for the deaths of those on flight 93?

No. They're not responsible for the deaths. If it's all above-board and legit, why is there a gag order on who saw the FDR?

or are they too part of this mega-conspiracy?

Only insofar as the data recovered (if any).


@weedwhacker:

'twisted bit of painted metal'?

It has the paint scheme of UAL.

I know, but it's the only piece to feature. Just like the convenient bit at the Pentagon that was similar in nature (note: I did not say 'the same').

I'd say that the DFDR data could not be faked....remember, it records for about 25 hours (compared the the CVR, which is a continuous-loop magnetic tape cassette, of about 30 minutes' duration....similar to the old 8-track cassettes from the 1970s)

I appreciare this, but the only data that needed faking was the part for Flight 93. Several orders of magnitude less work required to do.

AND, the recorder is Digital....lots of ones and zeros. NOW, I can't read binary....maybe Steve Jobs can...but to fake it all?

Every character you read is a representation of binary data.

NOW...if this was NOT the DFDR for that airframe....then certainly someone would have mentioned it by now.

Is that why there is a gag order on who saw the DFDR?

ps.....I've seen some of the NTSB readouts....very compelling, and very realistic.

I've spent hours pouring over the Pentagon FDR data and I agree, it looks good, until you start actually putting the data into context.

mirage....I like your avatar, and I admire your taste.

Thanks!

reply to post by mirageofdeceit


mirage....I really, really hate the "quote" feature....it takes things SO out of order, and thus there's a risk of contextual loss....stream-of-consciencnous (never could spell that word!) being my way to express.

Anyways....not sure I'm totally convinced yet, about the chain of command and any 'hiding' of DFDR (or SSFDR) data. Ya know, there were 25 hours of data.....which means it would include the flight in, and maybe even a few other flights, for that airframe.

Maybe an FOIA request?

Look....I know how airlines operate airplanes.....if they're on the ground, they ain't making any money.

Of course, they must be maintained....'A' inspections, 'B' inspections....and so on.

This can only be accomplished on the ground, of course.

I'm just guessing here, in the case of the airframe that WAS UAL93....it pushed-back from the gate in Newark at....about 0800? Had a long taxi delay to the runway (I flew out of Newark, it is a constant problem)

Back to the airframe....arrived late the previous night, maybe even the early AM....from? Well UAL hubs out of several cities....point is, this is a road to travel, look up the records of that airplane (they still have them, it's all on their computers somewhere) and demand to see the rest of the DFDR (or SSFDR) recorded data. If it doesn't match, then you have a conspiracy. If it DOES match, then you're back to square one......

Originally posted by ThroatYogurt
Here is some info on the FDR that i posted with a debate with Ultima1:

And here is the infomration that i answered you back with.

The source added that “the [CVR and FDR] tapes were sequestered by the FBI and quickly taken to its Quantico, Virginia labs where analysis was conducted solely under the Bureau’s influence in order to maintain complete control.” However, according to the individual with knowledge of the investigation, “there were a few NTSB officials allowed to observe, but their influence on the probe and tape inspection was minimal at best.”

@weedwhacker:

I quote simply so people (and you) know to which part I'm responding. If they want context, they'll have to read the full post. I understand what you say about context though - it is a problem.

A FOIA request would be interesting, because apparently the flight itself (Flight 93) was never logged as existing. I don't know how far to take the information of that source (I can't even remember what it was called) but it is interesting.

Someone posted around here recently about discrepancies in arrival airports, departure airports for the same airframe, and timings. I explained that it is possible the aircraft diverted for some reason (technical) then was ferried empty to the departure airfield prior to resuming normal commercial operations.

Whilst we're at it,m maybe a separate FOIA request for the DFDR serial number on its own might prove insightful? I can't see any grounds for refusing that information at all.

reply to post by mirageofdeceit


mirage...I've heard of what you speak.

I will tell you, the airframe, and the engines....they have a very long track record.

There will NEVER be serial numbers on every piece of a fuselage....just ain't the way it works.

S/N evidence will be on the parts....the pieces of parts...hydraulic pumps, O2 tanks, fuel pumps....etc.

MY point is....about the DFDR. It would be, as I've pointed out, VERY difficult to fake....especially since we know that it records about 25 hours of information....which means, before UAL93.....the airframe also operated other flights.....let's look into this informortion.....and decide, then, if the UAL 93 stuff was 'faked'.....see? This must be investigated......

So Spooky over at Covert Ops has a new image! He used to use THIS one as his "technical explanation":




I tried to help him out with a slightly better version and sent him this:




I don't think he took me seriously. I wonder why?

[edit on 17-8-2008 by pinch]

[edit on 17-8-2008 by pinch]

Originally posted by weedwhacker
S/N evidence will be on the parts....the pieces of parts...hydraulic pumps, O2 tanks, fuel pumps....etc.

Yes, most of the parts that would have survived the crash.

As far as the DFDRs why did the FBI keep them sequestered?


[edit on 18-8-2008 by ULTIMA1]

There will NEVER be serial numbers on every piece of a fuselage....just ain't the way it works.

S/N evidence will be on the parts....the pieces of parts...hydraulic pumps, O2 tanks, fuel pumps....etc.

The DFDR will have a serial number, which is curiously absent from any released reports.

Why's that? Currently we have no reference to point at to get copies of the data, and no way of verifying the source (which as I stated earlier means it is inadmissible in court).

reply to post by mirageofdeceit


mirage, I spent some time perusing the NTSB online database. I looked at many previous accidents, and they mention the Aircraft Serial Number, but not the Flight Recorder's S/N

I'm going to look more....because an in-depth NTSB report where the REASON for the accident/incident is undetermined (because the pilots are dead) might have more info on the Flight Recorders, along with S/Ns.

I'm just guessing here....but an FOIA request regarding UAL93 might help.

OR....it could be that the FBI and DHS and Bush and Company have something to hide....let's see how much stuff gets redacted....

reply to post by weedwhacker


Just to follow-on, I looked at the NTSB online database info about American Airlines that crashed in New York two months after 9/11.

(Nov, 2001)

If you recall, the airplane broke up in flight just after take-off, crashed in Queens, I think, and there were no survivors.

I didn't see the Flight Recorders' S/Ns.....the airplane S/N is listed, of course.

This means, that in general, I don't think the NTSB includes ALL S/Ns in their reports.

AND, you'd have to agree, coming so soon after 9/11, this was investigated thoroughly.

From my perspective as a pilot this was a completely tragic result of a pilot over-controlling the rudder....in a manner that he might have been taught sometime in the past (actually it was AAL's own simulator training...but that's been called into question).

In addition, we were taught that the rudder limits are reduced, as airspeed increases. Meaning, if you push the rudder pedal fully in one direction at a low speed, you get full rudder deflection. As airspeed increases, there is software in the system to limit the rudder deflection. In the case of this Airbus, it seems the rudder was allowed to deflected, from the aggressive use of the pedals, at an airspeed that it shouldn't have....and the vertical fin attachment points were over-stressed, and gave way.

Now....a rudderless twin-jet should be OK....except when the Vertical tail separated, it broke all three hydraulic lines, causing a loss of hydraulic fluid from all three hydraulic systems, and subsequent loss of any flight controls. Somewhere before impact with the ground, the engines broke free....some strong G forces were in play....and losing the engine, means losing the generators, which means losing main power....and the Recorders are all operating on Main Power....not Standby Power via the batteries and the inverter.

Originally posted by ULTIMA1

Originally posted by ThroatYogurt
Here is some info on the FDR that i posted with a debate with Ultima1:

And here is the infomration that i answered you back with.

The source added that “the [CVR and FDR] tapes were sequestered by the FBI and quickly taken to its Quantico, Virginia labs where analysis was conducted solely under the Bureau’s influence in order to maintain complete control.” However, according to the individual with knowledge of the investigation, “there were a few NTSB officials allowed to observe, but their influence on the probe and tape inspection was minimal at best.”

Yes you are correct in that was the debate. (where you were defeated)

Your external source has no back up. I sent you to the released FDR report that was done by the NTSB and Honeywell.

As usual, you ignored it.

reply to post by ThroatYogurt


TY, could you send the released reports to me??

I would be most interested in seeing them....if you can.

Thanks.

Originally posted by mirageofdeceit

No. They're not responsible for the deaths. If it's all above-board and legit, why is there a gag order on who saw the FDR?

I stated "somewhat." Honeywell along with the NTSB and the FBI would be part of the cover up.

Please provide me with a source that states there is currently a gag order in effect for those at Honeywell and the NSTB regarding flight 93.

reply to post by weedwhacker


Here ya go weedy:

United Airlines Flight 93 FDR Report
www.ntsb.gov...

ATC Report United Airlines Flight 93
www.ntsb.gov...

Flight Path Study United Airlines Flight 93
www.ntsb.gov...

Recorded Radar Data Study all Four Aircraft
www.ntsb.gov...

Flight 93 debris were spread over a 10 mile area. It was shot down. There were parts in a lake miles away. Iroinic that the Air Force trained me to see right through their hoax.

reply to post by earthman4


Earthman...did they teach you to gather and analyize the debris?

Please... I have asked this question to Ultima1 and he still dodges the question....

What debris were found at the 8+ mile point away from the impact?

reply to post by ThroatYogurt


debris were found in a lake and I called the marina to verify. I forgot the name of the lake but I will find it. These were not pieces that would be blown by the wind there.

reply to post by ThroatYogurt


This is extremely good stuff, Throaty!

I have to go buy new printer ink, now!!! No, actually I didn't print yet, running low already. Will come back.

Truly, I wish everyone will read through this, and see a real report, how they are written, etc, before jumping onto the Internet bandwagon of false claims and innuendo.

Cheers!

reply to post by earthman4


Before you make claims that you "see through their hoax," I suggest you get your facts straight.

[FBI Agent in charge] Crowley said that debris from the crash has been found in New Baltimore, Pa., which is 8 miles away from the crash scene, and Indian Lake, which is 2 1/2 miles away from the crash scene. Crowley said that NTSB officials said that it is probable that the debris in New Baltimore is from the crash.

The debris found in New Baltimore include paper and nylon, Crowley said. He said that the debris found is lightweight and easily can be carried by the wind. At the time of the crash, there was wind speed of 9 knots per hour heading to the southeast. Both Indian Lake and New Baltimore are southeast of the crash scene.

www.thepittsburghchannel.com...

Originally posted by earthman4
reply to post by ThroatYogurt

 

debris were found in a lake and I called the marina to verify. I forgot the name of the lake but I will find it. These were not pieces that would be blown by the wind there.

What marina did you call if you don't even remember what lake the debris were found?