Exclusive: No Ice At The North Pole

Exclusive: No Ice At The North Pole

www.independent.co.uk

It seems unthinkable, but for the first time in human history, ice is on course to disappear entirely from the North Pole this year.

The disappearance of the Arctic sea ice, making it possible to reach the Pole sailing in a boat through open water, would be one of the most dramatic – and worrying – examples of the impact of global warming on the planet. Scientists say the ice at 90 degrees north may well have melted away by the summer.

(visit the link for the full news article)

Could this finally be the smoking gun that validates Global warming as a real phenomenon? No ice on the North Pole for the first time in recorded history?!? I know there's a lot of naysayers on this issue, but if this really happens this summer, what will people say then?

Seasoned polar scientists believe the chances of a totally icefreeNorth Pole this summer are greater than 50:50 because the normally thick ice formed over many years at the Pole has been blown away and replaced by hugeswathes of thinner ice formed over a single year.

www.independent.co.uk
(visit the link for the full news article)

If all of this ice melted, would there be massive floods. From the pictures I seen in school, these ice shelves are massive. They are talking about all of the ice melting by the summer, it's kind of like it is going to happen overnight.

I wish i remembered where i read that the Russians were involved in a project to melt the Artic ice, I dont know if this is true, but i recall reading it and also heaing it on c2c.

reply to post by dgtempe


Do you remember what was the purpose of this? So they can get overseas faster? Man some islands, etc?

Yeah, yeah! There's already international diologue about this. The Russians and some Scandinavian nations all claim the rights or possession of the shipping lanes that are opening, are open or will be open.

One small plus for global warming. Overseas shipping accelerated.

Click here for more information.

I just read a report yesterday that was interesting in light of this article DD posted.

24/06/2008 16:38 MOSCOW, June 24 (RIA Novosti) - Russia must be ready to fight wars in the Arctic to protect its national interests in a region that contains large and untapped deposits of natural resources, a high-ranking military official said in an interview published Tuesday.

"After several countries contested Russia's rights for the resource-rich continental shelf in the Arctic, we have immediately started the revision of our combat training programs for military units that may be deployed in the Arctic in case of a potential conflict," Lt. Gen. Vladimir Shamanov, who heads the Defense Ministry's combat training directorate, told the Krasnaya Zvezda (Red Star) newspaper.

[snip]

He said the Defense Ministry would drastically change its approach to the combat training of highly-professional military units in the Leningrad, Siberian and Far Eastern military districts, which could participate in potential conflicts in the Arctic.

He also said two expert groups in his directorate were closely studying combat training models based on computer-assisted combat simulations that have been adopted by some foreign militaries.

"We may propose to the defense minister setting up a company-level fully computerized training center at one of the former testing sites," the general said.

Russia's General Staff is planning to determine the new composition and size of the Armed Forces by the beginning of July.

Meanwhile, the Defense Ministry has already announced plans to expand the presence of the Russian Navy in the world's oceans, including the Arctic, and extend the operational range of submarines deployed in the northern latitudes.

source

There is much more at stake than just shipping lanes,
and all those resources under that ice are not likely to go uncontested....

Edit to add source link


[edit on 26-6-2008 by SystemiK]

Originally posted by greshnik
Dumb people...they trained you to blame "those Russians" for every single problem in the world. Russians are melting the North Pole? They must be advanced in science...and yet US and other naive countries did not notice anything...or are helpless to this amasing weather tools that Russians have?

Oh yes the Russians are way more advanced in Weather Weapons They even dropped a bag of cement on a house while using it to seed clouds

But CNN shows you the "Natural" melting of the ice shelf...








CNN VIDEO

MOSCOW (Reuters) - Russian air force planes dropped a 25-kg (55-lb) sack of cement on a suburban Moscow home last week while seeding clouds to prevent rain from spoiling a holiday, Russian media said on Tuesday.

"A pack of cement used in creating ... good weather in the capital region ... failed to pulverize completely at high altitude and fell on the roof of a house, making a hole about 80-100 cm (2.5-3 ft)," police in Naro-Fominsk told agency RIA-Novosti.

Ahead of major public holidays the Russian Air Force often dispatches up to 12 cargo planes carrying loads of silver iodide, liquid nitrogen and cement powder to seed clouds above Moscow and empty the skies of moisture.

A spokesman for the Russian Air Force refused to comment.

June 12 was Russia Day, a patriotic holiday celebrating the country's independence after the break-up of the Soviet Union.

Weather specialists said the cement's failure to turn to powder was the first hiccup in 20 years.

The homeowner was not injured, but refused an offer of 50,000 roubles ($2,100) from the air force, saying she would sue for damages and compensation for moral suffering, Interfax said.

www.reuters.com...



The Chinese use anti aircraft guns

[edit on 26-6-2008 by zorgon]

What interesting news. If there is no ice at the north pole and the earth is not flooded, then I guess we should adapt to this new reality. Sounds like Russia is planning to take this area by force to secure those passage ways, could this lead to WW3?

I dont see why we cant just declare them international areas, and share for the betterment of mankind. Like all resources found, divide among the entire world.

reply to post by SystemiK
It was also just within the last few months that the Russians claimed the North Pole!
Makes you think.

Originally posted by jhill76
If all of this ice melted, would there be massive floods. From the pictures I seen in school, these ice shelves are massive. They are talking about all of the ice melting by the summer, it's kind of like it is going to happen overnight.

Actually not. Since all of the ice at the North Pole is sea ice. melting it will not cause any change in sea levels -- sort of like the ice cubes melting in your drink -- it doesn't make the drink overflow.

The melting ice that can cause changes in the ocean levels is the antarctic and Greenland ice sheets sheets that are on land. As they melt, they add to the amount of water in the oceans. Remember that there is no land ice in the arctic

reply to post by metamagic


Alright thanks for that analogy. But, would this add to more rain? Would more water be absorbed in the atmosphere causing more rain?

reply to post by hotbakedtater

Putin's Arctic invasion: Russia lays claim to the North Pole - and all its gas, oil, and diamonds

Russian President Vladimir Putin is making an astonishing bid to grab a vast chunk of the Arctic - so he can tap its vast potential oil, gas and mineral wealth.

His scientists claim an underwater ridge near the North Pole is really part of Russia's continental shelf.

One newspaper printed a map of the "new addition", a triangle five times the size of Britain with twice as much oil as Saudi Arabia.

Dailymail.co.uk/

You know its gonna be hard to ex[plain to Kids what happened to Santa's workshop when the ice melts

The result of the Arctic, Antarctic and ice in Greenland disappearing is a major one and involves three main areas.

1: Sea levels will rise. Evaporation cannot keep up with the amount of water that the land ice sheets in Greenland and Antarctica would melt in to, so sea levels will rise. Clearly that will flood coastal areas below sea level, thus killing many and forcing many more to move. That move will 'flood', for lack of a better term, other towns and cities with the influx of displaced people. That will put a strain on those economies.

2: Temperatures will rise. The ice sheets in the Arctic act as a reflector. Sunshine and a lot of the heat is reflected back in to space by the ice. If there is no ice, that heat is absorbed by the water, thus warming the water, which just means more rapid melting of what ever ice that remains. Also, warmer sea temperatures means a change in weather patterns.

3: Ocean currents will change. The fresh water from the melted ice sheets will mix with the salt water oceans and will throw off the ocean currents that determine our weather patterns. It will change how cold it is in one area of the world, how hot it is in another, how wet it is in this place, and how dry it is in that place. This will occur at times in the year that you wouldn't typically see those weather patterns. Winter may not be cold in areas it usually is. Summer may not be as wet as it usually is in other areas. The weather patterns will change.

This isn't speculation. This isn't a matter of everyone on the planet dealing with a rise of two or three degrees and that being the extent of it. This is how things will change if the Arctic, Antarctic and/or Greenland ice melts. It will change how the weather, and overall, how life is on this planet.

Maybe you don't agree that humans caused it. You don't have to agree with how or why we got to Global Warming. Maybe you don't agree with the solutions. You don't have to agree with the solutions of carbon taxes and other methods of correcting what is going on. But that doesn't change the fact that our planet is warming up. No matter WHAT the reason, our planet is warming up.

Personally, I don't think humans are responsible. We treat this planet poorly, and for that, we deserve whats coming to us. But I don't believe it is entirely our fault. Nor do I believe the solutions presented to us by our politicians and their corporate lobbyists will correct things.

I think what is going to happen is going to happen regardless and we just need to prepare for the ride. It is unfortunate, but how do you control something that is impossible to control?

[edit on 6/27/08 by NovusOrdoMundi]

This will almost surely set an ice age in motion.

The planet knows how to regulate itself, the gulf stream is going to shut down.

reply to post by NovusOrdoMundi


Sorry mate... but we really need to get to terms with your no.1 point there.
If indeed the ice is sea-ice that would mean NO rising of the waters, this is basic physics.
If the ice is predominantly land ice then yes, we would see some rising of the waters.
Ah well... was mentioned earlier. But pole ice vs. greenland ice. Still some difference and only time will tell how many low lvl countries will be hurt by it.

I think the most interesting part is the change of ocean currents when meltwater gets mixed into the currents. They are so intertwined that it could possibly affect the climate all over Earth.


Reply to one of the guys at the top:
Depends what your definition of "Global Warming" is.
You are aware that the Earth has been heated and partly frozen time and time again, right? Earth didn't just pop out of nowhere and then we began recording what's going on.
It's been here waaay longer than we have, but human nature dictates us to believe we are special and the cause and source of everything. Therefor what is happening now MUST be us... I don't buy it. I'm not saying that is what you believe, but it seems to be what every other greenpeace nutcase here believes.

The question is, will or can we adapt the next time Earth decides to reset itself?
But of course, there's no harm in living in a way that doesn't strain the environment we have to move around in more than necessary.

[edit on 27/6/08 by flice]

Originally posted by DimensionalDetective


Could this finally be the smoking gun that validates Global warming as a real phenomenon? No ice on the North Pole for the first time in recorded history?!? I know there's a lot of naysayers on this issue, but if this really happens this summer, what will people say then?

Seasoned polar scientists believe the chances of a totally icefreeNorth Pole this summer are greater than 50:50 because the normally thick ice formed over many years at the Pole has been blown away and replaced by hugeswathes of thinner ice formed over a single year.

www.independent.co.uk
(visit the link for the full news article)

Guys, take a look at pictures of Mars from the 70s, and compare them with pictures today. Pay particular attention to ice at the poles in those pictures.

Are people SERIOUSLY saying that humans are screwing up the environment so bad, that it is affecting MARS?

It's not us, or mostly not us, this is solar system wide.

We have little knowledge of "galactic weather" what our system is pasing through as it spins around the galaxy, how dark matter and dark energy afect things, the pressence of "dust" in varying regions, even if gravity can change or... gosh, so many factors that could raise the temperature of a system by a few degees up or down and affect everything.

there is no reason to assume this is all us.