what has become of the disclosure project?

reply to post by davidbiedny

If you have serious concerns regarding Dr Greer's integrity, then how come you didn't confront him directly.. 'let him have it' so-to-speak? You got all uptight at one point because he declined to name the full panel of Orion Project personnel for reasons I respect and understand; but apart from that, you barely interjected with any penetrating intent. You had the golden opportunity to blow him apart and you blew it.

Cmon, you say you're a fearless warrior for critical thinking, you don't save your venom for 15 minutes behind their back. You take them head-on and crush them if you feel they deserve it. You believe Dr Greer is a charlatan; your interview achieved very little if you were angling to expose him.

[edit on 1-7-2008 by RiotComing]

reply to post by davidbiedny


Well, I'd love to show you the footage, but I don't have it.

James Gilliland is the one who claims to have it. As for whether or not he's willing to show it to people, I don't know. Greer may have asked him to keep it private, or maybe not - who knows?

Tell you what. You, and Ritzmann and Vaeni have your radio show, and you say you're NOT debunkers - so why not invite James on the show and ask him about the footage?

And people wonder why our society is in the mess it's in...

Ciao.

dB

This is really weird stuff!
From what I've heard the CIA sent all the members of the "disclosure project" free passes to "CLUB POGO" at (pogo.com)

and most of the disclosure project members have since been working on getting "badges" ! Who would of thought !

It could take years before we hear any new information if that’s the case!

Originally posted by MrdDstrbr
To date the debunkers have said NOTHING about this.

Ok, so lets see it.

Again, this does nothing to support anything. Greer has stated since the mid 1990's that he's been vectoring in all sort of stuff, yet has never produced anything.

He's also stated per his X-Conference lecture: "The beings are only sixty centimeters in height. They're sixty centimeters... is the height of the adults. And the child that we have (and you should see the video and photographs of this when this comes out--I'm not at liberty to release them yet)--is only six inches. This beautiful being has four skull bones... Is, um...unusual in all its characteristics...."

You can hear this statement right here, at the end of the podcast

During the Paracast episode, it's clear "we" meaning DP or CSETI categorically does not have possession of anything.

Again, it's another case of Greer stating this or that to "wow" factor an audience, when there's nothing to show. If he cannot substantiate such a statement, then why say it to begin with???

Because it's about being a showman. And in this case, his statement at the X con was shown to be false.

That alone should be enough for most people. But there's much, much more to that end if you bother to look.

Thats really all I have to say about it. If you guys wish to place importance on Greer thats fine. I personally see him as a cancer on this subject, and a large part of why people are ridiculed by the public at large.

[edit on 1-7-2008 by jritzmann]

reply to post by davidbiedny


Wow. Way to totally duck out of interviewing Gilliland!

The man who claims to have overwhelming evidence of contact, thousands of eyewitnesses, 80+ hours of video footage, video footage of Greer and CSETI vectoring in ships - let's totally NOT interview him!

Originally posted by jritzmann
Ok, so lets see it.

Again, this does nothing to support anything. Greer has stated since the mid 1990's that he's been vectoring in all sort of stuff, yet has never produced anything.

Except, maybe, for THESE:

www.ufocongressstore.com...



(if my link gets removed, surf to www.ufocongressstore.com and click on Dr. Steven Greer)

Thats really all I have to say about it. If you guys wish to place importance on Greer thats fine. I personally see him as a cancer on this subject, and a large part of why people are ridiculed by the public at large.

[edit on 1-7-2008 by jritzmann]

Well, all I have to say about it is I've now given you THREE positive leads - Gilliland, Steve Mareno of PSI Applications, and the above DVDs.

At least ONE of these leads WILL lead to positive evidence for Greer......

Originally posted by jritzmann
reply to post by davidbiedny

 

No point in engaging Nexus, he's a self professed publisher and event organizer of the UFO variety. You're talking about someone who relies on the outlandish sensationalism and B.S. of people like Greer to sell his tickets and magazine.

He's not pissing because of Greer's integrity being questioned, but rather the pinch his wallet feels at these assorted people being exposed.

Another sign that you lack research skills jritzmann.

For the record then:

- I organise on average one event per year, (and UFOs are only ONE of the many topics we cover) and we get our 300 people regardless of who talks. This has been the case for nearly 20 years. No wallet incentive regarding Greer there.

- My magazine has been published since 1987 - which is way before Greer (or any of you guys) emerged onto the 'scene'. My wallet hasn't felt any difference as a result of anything we have done on Greer. So, wrong again dude.

My 'motives' for defending Greer has nothing to do with money. I have dealt with Greer, and with many of the people he had at his National Press Club launch in May 2001 - and he stands fine in terms of integrity and honesty in my books.

And by the way, you haven't 'exposed' anyone as a fraud or charlatan (except maybe in your own mind) All you have done is make "noise" - which has amply demonstrated how shallow you and your 'research' really are.

I deal with real researchers from all around the world on a daily basis - you are so far removed from them in terms of communication skills, research skills, and analytical skills that it is laughable.

Welcome to my ignore list.

Duncan

Originally posted by davidbiedny
And people wonder why our society is in the mess it's in...

Ciao.

dB

You mean like the inability of the leaders of this world to deal with Robert Mugabe, because instead of taking direct action they pussyfoot around while pretending to be 'doing their duty'? Yes I agree with you, society is in a royal mess because people no longer have the courage of their convictions to take their adversaries head-on. You know, I saw Gordon Brown on the tv news yesterday, outside the African Summit, mumbling about how Zimbabwe shouldn't accept Mugabe in power, that they must have a new government.

It reminded me very much of the 15 minutes after the Greer interview (minus the giggly-stoner-recently-jilted-by-ex impression - that's not you personally of course, but that was the impression I got of the presenters on air), here he was.. he'd been to the Summit, he had the opportunity to grab Mugabe by the testes and instead we see him bleating about what should've been achieved. I can see Mugabe carrying on and on and on and on, with zero action taken, just continued grumping and griping from the people with the power to make a change.

You had the power to make the change, to blow Dr Greer apart if you feel this is what he deserves. Inaction is the bane of society indeed.

Originally posted by doctormcauley
Steven Greer has indeed been compromised.

This man was a genuine threat to the status quo. Intelligence gathering had to be increased.

It was via this surveillance that it was found that Greer was in fact a closet homosexual. One who frequented gyms and various other known gay hangouts. It wasn't long before the more valuable intelligence began to roll in. Potentially compromising photos, video and audio were all obtained.

Upon being threatened with the revelation of this information to his wife and family, Greer reluctantly acquiesced, and began to reverse the course of the Disclosure project, with promises to slowly discredit it and himself - all to save face.

So, how do you know this? - or is this something you heard on some episode of Paracast? Unless you can provide further information to substantiate these claims, then they seem a tad stupid given the fact that Greer DOES NOT seem to be reversing his stance on Disclosure. Besides, how gay can he be given he has children?

And I can assure you - Greer is becoming MORE popular as a result of his last book, and as a result of him including spirituality and consciousness in the ET/UFO equation.

Surely the very existence of beings and craft that defy our faith in the speed of light, or our faith in a mechanistic-Darwinistic theory of life on Earth - points to the fact that we need to EXPAND our perceptions and beliefs and understanding.

This whole debate basically centres around the fact, that SOME 'believers in UFOs' cringe and feel that they look silly, when they hear Greer (one of the UFO movement's main heros to date) talking about consciousness and spirituality, or when they learn that Greer is holding workshops regarding calling down UFOs etc.

Greer's respect is growing, not waning - and this really upsets people who don't want to mix spirituality and consciousness with scientific, 'credible' UFO research.

To those who repeatedly insult and denigrate Dr Steven Greer - I say "go do something better than he has done" or just shut the hell up!

Duncan

Originally posted by jritzmann
reply to post by davidbiedny

 

No point in engaging Nexus, he's a self professed publisher and event organizer of the UFO variety. You're talking about someone who relies on the outlandish sensationalism and B.S. of people like Greer to sell his tickets and magazine.

He's not pissing because of Greer's integrity being questioned, but rather the pinch his wallet feels at these assorted people being exposed.

I'm reading this thread with a great interest and at the same time with questions that roaming my mind with if-s, why-s, how-s etc. I quoted your post totally by instinct or maybe coz I have seen your previous behavior with John Lear which certainly left a very bad taste in my mouth. I don't think is in your honor spiting claims like that (even in the regards of Greer). Who are you to influence people's opinions? Your rudeness and haughtiness, arrogance also is deplorable. You have your own forum in here and acting like that makes my self and I guess members with the same mind set ask themselves; What is your role in ATS?

I'm here to read and to compare my ideas and knowledge with other members and to contribute with that much I know. But I don't believe in rudeness and arrogance as a way to impose opinions on other people. I'm also very demure that few smods instead of condemning this pattern, are the first to fuel it. I stand for the truth and civil communication and also I'm educated enough to come up with my own conclusions. Throwing statements like, crock, hoax, liar, looser (and God knows what other) to me is not only incapability of a rational reasoning but also something done with a maybe sinister intent. Is just a feeling I have and I'm not accusing nobody. it just got my attention, always in threads with a certain sensibility the person quoted above and some others strangely are the first to jump with denial.

My two cents.

Greetings to all the membership !!!

Originally posted by doctormcauley
Steven Greer has indeed been compromised.

It was via this surveillance that it was found that Greer was in fact a closet homosexual.

Link? Please provide a link to back up your claim, something like this should be all over the internet to discredit Greer once and for all if it was true. Or is this another attempted sleazy snide disinfo hatchet job on the guy? Because from what I've seen, Dr Greer hasn't taken any backward steps. On that Paracast interview, he came across as sharp as ever.

Fellow ATS members, this is the second instance of doctormcauley posting this accusation, in fact it is a direct copy-and-paste from his other post. There are zero evidential facts floating around to back up this assertion. What exactly is the motive here? Throw enough mud in the hope some of it will stick?

What exactly is the motive here? Throw enough mud in the hope some of it will stick?

That was exactly my point. And is very sad when is not coming from the simple membership of this board.

Originally posted by nexusmagazine
Welcome to my ignore list.

Duncan

Thanx, all too glad to be here. Another venomous zealot leaving me alone is what I ask for every day. Maybe one day the paranormal paparazzi like you will be less worried about cashing in on nonsense (because it makes a good story) and get serious, but I doubt it.

[edit on 3-7-2008 by jritzmann]

Before this gets too far afield let me just say - there are some very intelligent and respected people on both "sides" of this issue. And it's too bad that the only "side" isn't the side of truth; but perspective being what it is, both sides feel that's exactly where they are, but may be too emotionally invested to realize how they're coming across.

Personally, I don't want to lose anyone's participation because they're too fed up to continue, or any other reason.

So please take a breath and chill out a bit before we end up heading somewhere no one wants to go.

My u2u box is always open for someone needing to vent, and I can be beaten like a rented mule. In fact, it may be what I do best.

Just sayin'.

Originally posted by yeahright
Before this gets too far afield let me just say - there are some very intelligent and respected people on both "sides" of this issue. And it's too bad that the only "side" isn't the side of truth; but perspective being what it is, both sides feel that's exactly where they are, but may be too emotionally invested to realize how they're coming across.

Personally, I don't want to lose anyone's participation because they're too fed up to continue, or any other reason.

So please take a breath and chill out a bit before we end up heading somewhere no one wants to go.

My u2u box is always open for someone needing to vent, and I can be beaten like a rented mule. In fact, it may be what I do best.

Just sayin'.

Excuse me - but what is so intelligent about people calling Dr Steven Greer things like a closet homosexual, a howling at the moon nut job etc? Unsubstantiated slander such as that peddled by the Paracast 'broadcasters' just tells the more rational people that their research is not to be trusted.

What I don't understand is how come moderators on ATS allow such slander and baseless accusations against Greer, but won't allow similar attacks on their more 'cherished' stars, such as Stewart Swerdlow - who IS a known fraud and charlatan? When I alerted ATS to the fact that one of the ATS Interviewees was an (alleged) felon; and a recognised fraud - my post was pulled and I was warned.

Disappointed in the moderators of this thread for their bias!

Duncan

Originally posted by nexusmagazine
Disappointed in the moderators of this thread for their bias!

And I'm disappointed at the lack of tact from someone who feels the need to remind us all (repeatedly) that he's a professional publisher.

Certainly, someone in your profession is aware of the potential for criticism one may be subject to when they cast themselves into the public eye as Dr. Greer has done. By stepping up and positioning himself has a public champion of "something," he opens himself up to not only support, but analysis as well... and that analysis may often be unflattering. Dr. Greer's support of what many believe to be a hoax, and the presentation of obviously fake O'Hare UFO pictures at the press club only compound the intensity of such analysis.

There are countless such public figures in a broad range of interest areas that receive an often harsh skeptical analysis by the members of ATS. Such is the rocky road to truth.

However, that being said, we do anticipate and insist that our members treat each other with civility and respect.

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord

Originally posted by nexusmagazine
Disappointed in the moderators of this thread for their bias!

And I'm disappointed at the lack of tact from someone who feels the need to remind us all (repeatedly) that he's a professional publisher.

Certainly, someone in your profession is aware of the potential for criticism one may be subject to when they cast themselves into the public eye as Dr. Greer has done. By stepping up and positioning himself has a public champion of "something," he opens himself up to not only support, but analysis as well... and that analysis may often be unflattering. Dr. Greer's support of what many believe to be a hoax, and the presentation of obviously fake O'Hare UFO pictures at the press club only compound the intensity of such analysis.

There are countless such public figures in a broad range of interest areas that receive an often harsh skeptical analysis by the members of ATS. Such is the rocky road to truth.

However, that being said, we do anticipate and insist that our members treat each other with civility and respect.

Analysis of people who step up is one thing, but blatant smear jobs is another.
Your obvious personal bias against Greer is noted.

On a more important note, I would have thought that ATS moderators would be capable of acting in a neutral capacity, instead of clearly taking sides. Like an umpire perhaps? Obviously I am wrong. I am not saying moderators can't have personal opinions, but surely they should be capable of putting them aside in order to facilitate fair and rational disussion of topics? THIS AIN'T HAPPENING HERE BILL!

You call for tact and civility from me - how come you don't ask for it from jrittzman and the paracast dudes? Why do these civility and respect rules apply only to me and my posts, and not to the posts where I am openly and professionally slandered with much worse than anything I have said?

If site owners and moderators are going to continue to act like this, and give preferential treatment to posters who reinforce their own personal beliefs, then I am out of here.

Duncan

The "publisher" will not take responsibility for his own actions - the only reason I jumped into this thread is that I was being denigrated quite directly, being called every name under the sun. I have every right to respond to that type of abuse - and I did just that, when the "publisher" then tried to behave as if the rules of decorum only applied to others, and not to him. The hypocrisy of his words is self-evident, and it makes me question the tone and integrity of his magazine (which I've never read). This guy has no problem attacking me & Ritzmann, because of our feelings about Greer. He's happy to ignore EVERYTHING else we do for the field, and focus in the fact that we feel that Greer is a scam artist. We offer ample of proof to this effect, the "publisher" offers squat. It's not like the evidence isn't there for anyone to see - audience members of The Paracast dug up some real gems, which inspired me to do the same. And then there's the X-Con appearance of Greer, which I attended, and to hear the man lie through his teeth, with a smile on his face, was just precious. My B.S. detector is working quite well - it seems like age just sharpens that particular sense. And I won't touch the homosexual charges, I never made them, but I'll say this - you have to see him in live performance, the answer is as obvious as the sun. The entire tone of his voice completely changes - it's as if you're hearing a completely different character from his radio persona - and the body language is quite, uhm, revealing.

And you know what's really amusing about all this? Greer has eyes and fingers, he's certainly more than capable of defending himself in this, or any other public forum. He has been invited to appear on the ATS Mix show, and declined. After having interviewed him three times on The Paracast, I can tell you that he has an air of superiority and an attitude that puts him above the "little people". He styles himself a Messianic figure, and has now moved from UFOs to "free energy", specifically chosen to amortize the effort he's made with the UFO audience and keep the scam rolling. He loves to mingle with those who he feels can do things for him, but ignores - and talks down to - those who are his primary prey, the folks who buy into his shpiel hook, line and sinker. The "publisher", and other Greer fans, apparently won't respond to the words of Dr. Edgar Mitchell, who clearly states that he feels that Greer is far less than honest, and to the many other pieces of evidence that support the idea that Greer is a charlatan. They can't admit that they were wrong, and will protect their hero at all costs. It reflects the kind of reality that Bush/Cheney supporters face these days, in the light of the evidence indicating that both of them are war criminals.

And there's the latest email blast from the Oreo Project, which is just hysterical - be a good patriot, give your money to Greer, he'll use it to make your life better. It's almost as good as the email blast from last year, looking for frequent flier miles from his fans, so that he could fly first-class to some conference. He'll release CSETI photos and videos later this year - which he's been saying for 14 years, with nothing to show. NOTHING. When will people wake up and see this nonsense for what it is, an out-and-out scam?

Anyway, thanks for stepping in, Bill. It's always encouraging to know that there are others who see through the nonsense.

dB

[edit on 4-7-2008 by davidbiedny]

[edit on 4-7-2008 by davidbiedny]